Inverter TIG/Stick and Carbon Air Arc

NITROTRIP · Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:30 pm

Hi All,
I need some opinions on using a inverter machine for some carbon Air Arc gouging.
Not interested in this brand will that brand won't. I don't have my SA 200 pipeliner
anymore as that would be my first choice. I have about 8 to 10 feet of weld to
gouge, remove plate and replace.
Welder specs are, 200amp duty cycle 100% --250amp 60%
The carbon copper clad rods I have are 3/16 and 5/32
I think I can get by with around 160 to 180amps.
I posted here as this is a Inverter TIG machine and this is the highest posted section.
And lots of real welders here with lots of arc time under there helmet.
I have been welding as a main trade starting in 1977 but not heavy for the last 10yrs.
So the machine in question is 6 months old I picked up new and don't want to try
something that is not good for inverters and might be hard on the boards ect. As they
are new to me.

Thank You for your help,
Rick

Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:46 pm

Ouch!

Tough spot...

I wouldn't arc-gouge with my own equipment if it were less than 100% at 300A.

Actually, I'm not sure I'd arc-gouge with an inverter, at all... All that digital circuitry...

I've tried arc-gouging with 3/16 rods on a 250A lincoln generator.... That's the absolute minimum I'll ever try again, and it was frustrating as hell.

Give me the right machine, and I'll carve the spatter off your wedding band. Don't waste your time with an underpowered rig.

Steve S

NITROTRIP · Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:06 pm

Hi Otto,
I know I am on the edge for power. I can work around that. What I need to
know is how a IGBT inverter will handle a carbon arc? IE the electronics?
Compared to a transformer machine. I don't want to damage it. I can also
stay under the duty cycle. I don't want to drive over 100miles one way to
rent a machine if I am able to do it with what I have.
Ideal amperage, no. Able to do it with the output I have, yes. Damage the
machine trying, that is the question. If this is not a job inverters are rated
for I don't want to risk damage.

Thank You all,
Rick

Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:15 pm

Rick,

You'll want to stay strictly within the duty-cycle of your machine.

It can do it, but don't push it. I doubt your customer will want to protect your machine investment...

Steve S

Superiorwelding · Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:36 pm

NITROTRIP wrote:Hi All,
I need some opinions on using a inverter machine for some carbon Air Arc gouging.
Not interested in this brand will that brand won't. I don't have my SA 200 pipeliner
anymore as that would be my first choice. I have about 8 to 10 feet of weld to
gouge, remove plate and replace.
Welder specs are, 200amp duty cycle 100% --250amp 60%
The carbon copper clad rods I have are 3/16 and 5/32
I think I can get by with around 160 to 180amps.
I posted here as this is a Inverter TIG machine and this is the highest posted section.
And lots of real welders here with lots of arc time under there helmet.
I have been welding as a main trade starting in 1977 but not heavy for the last 10yrs.
So the machine in question is 6 months old I picked up new and don't want to try
something that is not good for inverters and might be hard on the boards ect. As they
are new to me.

Thank You for your help,
Rick

Rick,
Your machine will and can air arc. I have air arced ALOT off of inverters with absolutely no recourse. This is not to say that you will never have any problems. Your amperage range for your rods is 90-150 amps for the 5/32" and 200-250 amps for the 3/16". Personally I would stick with the 5/32" and do not run the machine to much. Set your machine around the 150 amps and see how it goes. Keep us informed.
Steve, I have some spatter on my ring now, can I ship it to you and get it removed

-Jonathan

Braehill · Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:40 pm

@Jonathan,
I can't add to the conversation about airarc with an inverter, but I will say that I personally wouldn't trust Steve with my wedding ring because he might hock it for premium beer.

Len

Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:43 pm

Braehill wrote:@Jonathan,
I can't add to the conversation about airarc with an inverter, but I will say that I personally wouldn't trust Steve with my wedding ring because he might hock it for premium beer.

Len

It's so nice to feel "understood"...

I've air-arced off a syncrowave 250DX with good results, but my boss won't let me do it (he's afraid I'll break it). The 250DX does 310A, though.

I've tried to air-arc off a 250A lincoln gas generator... bad results. The 3/16 rods would "almost" cut a weld.

Steve S

Superiorwelding · Sun Apr 06, 2014 12:34 am

Here is some reading material for you before you begin.
http://victortechnologies.com/index.php ... guide.html
Try this link
-Jonathan

AKweldshop · Sun Apr 06, 2014 12:38 am

links broke.

AKweldshop · Sun Apr 06, 2014 12:42 am

I air arc some off my Invertec 275 maxed out.
1/4 inch rod.
275amps.
Did a decent job.

Only had two big filets.

I had a 60gal air compressor so I didn't work the welder hard, because I didn't have enough cfm.

My two cents.
Personally,
I would use an Inverter, within its capabilities, to do some CAC.

~John

tradetek · Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:27 am

So while lusting after a Hypertherm Powermax 30, I stumbled across this whole carbon arc gouging process and saw that there was a special stinger for it that has air holes in it to direct the compressed air down the rod.

But... couldn't you just take an air blow gun from the compressor and direct it down the length of the rod? Or will that just be a bad idea?

Bill

Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:42 am

I suppose that's possible,

but an arc-gouging torch directs the air rather presicely.

There's a method to the madness...

It would be complicated to control the carbon-arc torch with one hand and the air with the other, when the torch puts both functions in one hand...

Steve S

Superiorwelding · Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:10 pm

tradetek wrote:So while lusting after a Hypertherm Powermax 30, I stumbled across this whole carbon arc gouging process and saw that there was a special stinger for it that has air holes in it to direct the compressed air down the rod.

But... couldn't you just take an air blow gun from the compressor and direct it down the length of the rod? Or will that just be a bad idea?

Bill

Bill,
I have considered this in the past. I believe it could work in a pinch but wouldn't want to do it all the time. I have used 6011 and 7018 turned up to 200-250 amps to use as a gouging/piercing rod with success, but on sheet metal.

Rick,
If you have access to a plasma cutter, you can get gouging tips for it or even gouging tips for your torch. Just a thought.
-Jonathan

Braehill · Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:30 pm

@tradetek,
Actually what you're suggesting is what led to the invention of the Arcair in the 1940's. The gentleman that invented it saw what a pain in the ass it was to use a separate air line to blow away the molten metal and came up with what we use today. It's all in the beginning of their web site.

Len

Superiorwelding · Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:33 pm

Braehill wrote:@tradetek,
Actually what you're suggesting is what led to the invention of the Arcair in the 1940's. The gentleman that invented it saw what a pain in the ass it was to use a separate air line to blow away the molten metal and came up with what we use today. It's all in the beginning of their web site.

Len

Len,
I learned something new today!
-Jonathan

Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:51 pm

Superiorwelding wrote:
Braehill wrote:@tradetek,
Actually what you're suggesting is what led to the invention of the Arcair in the 1940's. The gentleman that invented it saw what a pain in the ass it was to use a separate air line to blow away the molten metal and came up with what we use today. It's all in the beginning of their web site.

Len
Len,
I learned something new today!
-Jonathan

So did I! I didn't realize what the OP suggested was the problem that lead to the arcair solution...
Makes way too much sense.

Steve S

tradetek · Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:08 am

That's me... always a day late and a dollar short.

That being said... my point was really for the odd job every now and again vs someone doing it consistently enough to warrant spending bucks on the special rod holder.

Bill

Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:28 pm

tradetek wrote:That's me... always a day late and a dollar short.

That being said... my point was really for the odd job every now and again vs someone doing it consistently enough to warrant spending bucks on the special rod holder.

Bill

Well, I think the path of this thread makes it pretty clear it was "once done that way", so go for it...

Be a good time to have a helper?

Steve S

noddybrian · Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:55 am

With a little " redneck " engineering it would be possible to alter a cheap blowgun to clamp / jubilee clip onto a stinger & use some 1/8" copper brake pipe to create a nozzle facing down the electrode - I always intended to add a extension tube to my Flair torch to allow better use of air when only a smaller compressor is available as the amount of air used is quite wasteful & needs a big CFM even on the smaller torches.