[Bartman]

Hi all,

Have been considering either a Lincoln SW 200 or a Miller Syncrowave 210 but I'm wondering if their single knob controls are ok to work with? Or do you prefer the machines with multiple knobs/switches/buttons to control things?

Also, where are those two machines manufactured?

Thanks,
Bart

[LtBadd]

Hey Bartman welcome to the forum
I would ask for more information, such as what do you intend to weld, is this for your home use (i'm guessing so)?

Is this for all around use or do you have a product you want to make and sell, maybe both?

Are these machines at the max of your budget?

[Oscar]

I honestly don't care about knobs or switches. I care about the capabilities of the machine, period.

[BillE.Dee]

hi Bart and welcome. Are you asking IF we like the analog type machines with lots of knobs or the digital/screen type with one control knob. With the analog type, you can make your selection for amps and balance and frequency by reaching for each particular knob. With the digital screen type and one knob, you can make your selections BUT you will have to travel thru the menu to get to the adjustment you are looking to make. I have a digital screen type with one knob and that is what I find myself doing, seems to take a bit longer to tune the machine to what I want whereas, I also have a hybrid machine with a screen for the amps and analog knobs for other adjustments (balance, freq, etc) which is , to me, quicker to make adjustments simply because I don't have to run thru the whole menu. BUT a person can get used to the digital type and it isn't a bother. Hopefully, I answered your question. Time for another cool aid.
gramps

[Bartman]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the replies. The main project I'll be working on involves thin wall 4130 steel tubing and a smaller amount of aluminum fabrication but all of it would be light gauge materials. I had a Square Wave 185 but sold it thinking I wasn't going to need it! So now I'm looking at the Square Wave 200 and Syncrowave 200 which both have single knobs with push button selectors. I can adapt as well as anybody but I'm wondering if those one or two buttons that do basically everything are prone to wearing out and if it's possible to replace them without it being super expensive.

I'm still looking at other used welders but might go new just to avoid some of the hassles of buying used.

Thanks again,
Bart

[JayWal]

I own a Lincoln SW200, one thing that might be an issue for you with that machine is on tig it is High Frequency start, with a footpedal only. No lift arc or scratch start. Now if you're welding parts on a table, fine, but thats generally not the case with 4130 tubing projects it seems, but I maybe be wrong, it depends what your project actually is. If kicking a pedal around is not a problem than thats not a concern for you. You can of course get a tig button or some other form of hand amptrol if a footpedal just doesn't work for you but that's some more extra moola.

I dont know anything about the Miller machine in question, just thought I'd pipe in with my 2 cents on the Lincoln. I've used it on quite a few projects now the years I've owned it, it is an ok machine, but very basic features.

Sent from my SM-G970W using Tapatalk

[Spartan]

I very much prefer the analog-type machines with many knobs and switches when making adjustments. It's just so easy to glance over at the machine (often with my hood still down and torch in-hand) to verify settings and quickly make adjustments as needed. Not quite so easy with the digitals. Hood up and torch on the bench so I can focus on fiddling with buttons and menus.

However, the options and settings resolution that the digital machines provide sure is nice

[Bartman]

i hate to buy chinese anything when there are US made options but some of these machines look like a great deal. a career welder acquaintance recommended this one to me,
https://www.amazon.com/Everlast-PowerTI ... N24BMCS08H

[Spartan]

i hate to buy chinese anything when there are US made options but some of these machines look like a great deal. a career welder acquaintance recommended this one to me,
https://www.amazon.com/Everlast-PowerTI ... N24BMCS08H

I'm not big-time by any means, but I get paid to weld on the daily, and I use that exact machine in addition to some others, non of which are high end. That 200DV is actually my favorite machine. Some may not like Everlast, but I sure do.

With that being said, I'm about to pick up another TIG machine, but it probably won't be an Everlast. Good machines, IMO, but I'll be looking for a machine that is more robust and has greater long-term reliability.

[BugHunter]

I can adapt as well as anybody but I'm wondering if those one or two buttons that do basically everything are prone to wearing out and if it's possible to replace them without it being super expensive.

Encoder wheels are generally Optical so there is virtually no chance of them wearing out. Even ones that are electromechanical carry so little voltage or current that they never wear out either. The tactile buttons are generally a forever part also.

[Spartan]

I can adapt as well as anybody but I'm wondering if those one or two buttons that do basically everything are prone to wearing out and if it's possible to replace them without it being super expensive.

Encoder wheels are generally Optical so there is virtually no chance of them wearing out. Even ones that are electromechanical carry so little voltage or current that they never wear out either. The tactile buttons are generally a forever part also.

I wouldn't think the rotary encoders used on welders would be optical. Miller/Fronius all the way down to the Ebay special direct-from-china welders, I'd think they would all be the mechanical/conductive type.

Just a guess based on experience, and I could be completely wrong. Certainly interested to know if anyone has seen welder encoders to be of the optical variety.

[TraditionalToolworks]

i hate to buy chinese anything when there are US made options but some of these machines look like a great deal. a career welder acquaintance recommended this one to me,
https://www.amazon.com/Everlast-PowerTI ... N24BMCS08H

My Everlast i-Tig 201 is of the same family, but no AC. It also has knobs but is digital, I believe the DV200 is the same. My i-Tig 201 also doesn't run 6010 rod, but has an Arc Force.

My Primeweld doesn't have Arc Force or Hot Start, but does run 6010.

Also has a bunch of knobs. Also to note, it comes with a genuine CK Worldwide Flexhead torch, has a 3 year warranty with shipping paid both ways, and support is available 24x7, 7 days a week. Oh, did I mention it only costs $800 w/shipping. And they are in stock now, but no telling for how long, they normally sell out the first day they get shipment in.

(linky pic)

[Spartan]

...has a 3 year warranty with shipping paid both ways, and support is available 24x7, 7 days a week...

Everlast has all of that but only business hours support...but with a 5 year warranty

I wouldn't think 24/7 support is the norm from most welding companies, but I could be wrong.

[TraditionalToolworks]

Everlast has all of that but only business hours support...but with a 5 year warranty

Only warranty shipping for the first 30 days. After that customer pays shipping both ways.

Also, Everlast charges shipping on the sale as well.

I wouldn't think 24/7 support is the norm from most welding companies, but I could be wrong.

No, it's not but Primeweld offers it.

As I have said before, I honestly don't know how Primeweld does it, but the Primeweld Tig 225x is selling like hot cakes. Even has a genuine CK Worldwide 17 Flexhead, the torch I prefer, and has an SSC style pedal. A great package as many will attest. Almost half the price of the DV200 when all is said and done with an extra 25 amps!

[Spartan]

Everlast has all of that but only business hours support...but with a 5 year warranty

Only warranty shipping for the first 30 days. After that customer pays shipping both ways.

They didn't hold me to any 30 day requirement when I had to send mine back for a replacement. They paid shipping both ways. Granted, I was only 60-90 days from purchase, though. So there certainly may be a cutoff, but for me it wasn't 30 days.

[TraditionalToolworks]

They didn't hold me to any 30 day requirement when I had to send mine back for a replacement. They paid shipping both ways. Granted, I was only 60-90 days from purchase, though. So there certainly may be a cutoff, but for me it wasn't 30 days.

I don't know, maybe because they sold you a machine with bad firmware, I just know their policy which is 30 days from purchase, if you can work anything better than that with them, more power. More than a few people that didn't get their machines replaced after the 30 day period. Not saying what they do or don't do, just what their stated policy is.

You said 5 year warranty, ask VA-Sawyer about that 5 year warranty.

[Spartan]

You said 5 year warranty, ask VA-Sawyer about that 5 year warranty.

Yup, I have no doubts about that. I mentioned today in this or another thread (I lose track) that my next machine will probably be blue for that exact reason. I'm at the point where I need machines that are absolutely dependable or can be fixed very quickly, so starting down that path here soon.

[TraditionalToolworks]

Yup, I have no doubts about that. I mentioned today in this or another thread (I lose track) that my next machine will probably be blue for that exact reason. I'm at the point where I need machines that are absolutely dependable or can be fixed very quickly, so starting down that path here soon.

My next machine will most likely be blue also, not that I need the support, just that I want to have the best tools I can afford.

I have close to $30k of cash going out of my pocket in the next 2 months. That includes about $15k for enclosing my basement/shop, getting basic electricity going, and getting a $10k septic, and some grading on the driveway/encroachment.

Yep, I could have gotten a Dynasty had I wanted too today, but I have my priorities.

I almost bought a Trailblazer 4G, it was pretty big...2-1/2' wide, 4-1/2' tall, and 6' deep, they weigh 1600 lbs. Had a Continental 4 cyl. engine on a 10k generator. I passed mostly due to size and the fact I would use it marginally. Guy sold it for $500. If anything, I may get a Lincoln Idealarc 250, I passed on a really nice one the guy wanted $250 for, but IMO, inverters are the way of the future. And the Dynasty would do everything I need to do. Until I have extra cash, my Primeweld and Everlast will suffice I 'spose, I wish I would quit looking at welders on craigslist...that's a bad thing about working at home...

[BugHunter]

i wouldn't think the rotary encoders used on welders would be optical. Miller/Fronius all the way down to the Ebay special direct-from-china welders, I'd think they would all be the mechanical/conductive type.

Just a guess based on experience, and I could be completely wrong. Certainly interested to know if anyone has seen welder encoders to be of the optical variety.

You might be surprised how common some of the low resolution Optical ones are. Even your old mouse that used to have a ball in it had two Optical encoders inside of it. Back in the day they could sell those generic mice for $5. I know cuz I used to purchase them to steal the encoders out of them. LOL

I've got a bunch of the agilent encoders for motion control applications at work. But I also use the electromechanical ones and I have some that have been in operation for 25 years. I've never replaced one or had one fail for that matter. Not any of them.

Here's a typical one available at jameco Electronics. I've got a bunch of these in my toolbox.
https://www.jameco.com/z/PEC11-4020K-S0 ... 77703.html

[Spartan]

i wouldn't think the rotary encoders used on welders would be optical. Miller/Fronius all the way down to the Ebay special direct-from-china welders, I'd think they would all be the mechanical/conductive type.

Just a guess based on experience, and I could be completely wrong. Certainly interested to know if anyone has seen welder encoders to be of the optical variety.

You might be surprised how common some of the low resolution Optical ones are. Even your old mouse that used to have a ball in it had two Optical encoders inside of it. Back in the day they could sell those generic mice for $5. I know cuz I used to purchase them to steal the encoders out of them. LOL

I've got a bunch of the agilent encoders for motion control applications at work. But I also use the electromechanical ones and I have some that have been in operation for 25 years. I've never replaced one or had one fail for that matter. Not any of them.

Here's a typical one available at jameco Electronics. I've got a bunch of these in my toolbox.
https://www.jameco.com/z/PEC11-4020K-S0 ... 77703.html

You're probably right. I may have some "old hat" thinking going on here. Nearly every rotary encoder I've disassembled and recovered over the years has been mechanical, even in high-end gear, but I've been out of the game on that for awhile, so I may be historically biased.

Lord help me to not start ripping into my welders tomorrow to see their encoders

[BugHunter]

You may be right on the welders, I don't know. The encoder on my Miller sure feels nice I'll say that. And they certainly charge enough for it that they could afford to put in an optical one. LOL

I know in a car stereo like my Kenwood they use Optical only because mechanical ones generate noise.

My welder is safe. There is no chance I'm taking it apart to see what's in it.

[VA-Sawyer]

Neverlast 5 year warranty? Just ask yourself this, if it dies after 5 months, and they say the problem is you, not the welder, can you afford to loose your investment? I spent 3K for a welder that started crapping out at 18 months. Neverlast said the problem was high resistance caused by the Tungsten getting hot! Can you believe it? No support, no parts. Just dumb excuses. Buyer Beware!

[BugHunter]

Neverlast 5 year warranty? Just ask yourself this, if it dies after 5 months, and they say the problem is you, not the welder, can you afford to loose your investment? I spent 3K for a welder that started crapping out at 18 months. Neverlast said the problem was high resistance caused by the Tungsten getting hot! Can you believe it? No support, no parts. Just dumb excuses. Buyer Beware!

Is it an accepted truth that when the tungsten gets hot it creates problems for the welder? I'm talking obviously on inverters. I often have the tungsten glowing red, though I don't do it for very long. Generally if it gets hot I switch torch heads. It goes without saying that when it gets hot the resistance increases, but that seems like something a welder wouldn't mind. If that's indeed bad practice, I guess I have some changes to make.

[G-ManBart]

i hate to buy chinese anything when there are US made options but some of these machines look like a great deal. a career welder acquaintance recommended this one to me,
https://www.amazon.com/Everlast-PowerTI ... N24BMCS08H

I started out with an Everlast PowerTIG 210EXT, which I still have. It really does weld beautifully, and I think I'll use it more after I finish adding a water cooler (building one slowly).

I wound up with the 210EXT through a series of events. I had an Everlast inverter stick welder that went crazy after about two or three months and they could never sort out the problem. I spoke with Oleg (the owner) several times, and they shipped me a couple of boards to swap out, but the problem never went away. At that point they offered a new unit, or credit towards an upgrade. I went with the upgrade and they credited me full purchase price and paid the shipping to return the bad unit. I went with the 210EXT as I was shopping for TIG welders at the time. I thought they handled things pretty well. Going through the process of having boards sent, swapping them out, etc took some time, but I'm not getting paid to weld so it's not a big deal.

I wasn't aware of Primeweld back then, and I probably would have considered one given the features and price. I really would like to try a Primeweld just out of curiosity...it's almost too good to be true. At that price point you could almost consider it a disposable machine.

With that said, if I was welding for a living I'd be more inclined to look at a machine where a local shop might be able to make a fast repair and possibly offer me a loaner while my machine was in the shop...or have a backup machine just in case.

I stumbled onto a crazy deal for a Miller Syncrowave 250DX TIGRunner, then got a newer one, then an even newer one, and sold the first two and have less tied up in the newest one than the Everlast (I said, crazy deal right?). I've been doing some back and forth welding on the two machines as I'm teaching myself aluminum and the machines certainly aren't holding me back. I'm wondering if eventually I'll see more of a difference....maybe if I get good enough. To be fair, it's pretty apples-to-oranges comparing an inverter to a transformer, but it's certainly interesting.

[G-ManBart]

i hate to buy chinese anything when there are US made options but some of these machines look like a great deal. a career welder acquaintance recommended this one to me,
https://www.amazon.com/Everlast-PowerTI ... N24BMCS08H

I started out with an Everlast PowerTIG 210EXT, which I still have. It really does weld beautifully, and I think I'll use it more after I finish adding a water cooler (building one slowly).

I wound up with the 210EXT through a series of events. I had an Everlast inverter stick welder that went crazy after about two or three months and they could never sort out the problem. I spoke with Oleg (the owner) several times, and they shipped me a couple of boards to swap out, but the problem never went away. At that point they offered a new unit, or credit towards an upgrade. I went with the upgrade and they credited me full purchase price and paid the shipping to return the bad unit. I went with the 210EXT as I was shopping for TIG welders at the time. I thought they handled things pretty well. Going through the process of having boards sent, swapping them out, etc took some time, but I'm not getting paid to weld so it's not a big deal.

I wasn't aware of Primeweld back then, and I probably would have considered one given the features and price. I really would like to try a Primeweld just out of curiosity...it's almost too good to be true. At that price point you could almost consider it a disposable machine.

With that said, if I was welding for a living I'd be more inclined to look at a machine where a local shop might be able to make a fast repair and possibly offer me a loaner while my machine was in the shop...or have a backup machine just in case.

I stumbled onto a crazy deal for a Miller Syncrowave 250DX TIGRunner, then got a newer one, then an even newer one, and sold the first two and have less tied up in the newest one than the Everlast (I said, crazy deal right?). I've been doing some back and forth welding on the two machines as I'm teaching myself aluminum and the machines certainly aren't holding me back. I'm wondering if eventually I'll see more of a difference....maybe if I get good enough. To be fair, it's pretty apples-to-oranges comparing an inverter to a transformer, but it's certainly interesting.