[Jim Bridger]

We moved the end of last year and now I get chance to build from scratch. I'm looking at 40x40 building with 2 large 12x12 doors on the gable end. It will store a little bit of our farm equipment but mostly be anything I want it to be. Basically any/all projects (repairs, weld fab, auto, man cave, etc). I'm hoping to lean on everyones expertise if you ever had something you wish you would have done (or mistake you made!) before we get started. A few easy ones I've been toying with:

1) sheet walls with plywood (costs finally coming down) or drywall? Im going to just do ceiling in white metal.
2) is it worth it to incorporate something for air filtration? (shop will be insulated and will have very basic blower heater hung high)
3) has anyone walled off small office room (have kicked around idea of having cleaner space that could substitute as office instead of putting one in house)
4) only water i have planned is outside frost free hydrant, but have 2 floor drains planned
5) obviously it will have plenty of power run to building and it's a simple square but i'm sure some of you have suggestions for wiring and placing outlets

Our old shop was simple pole building that was way smaller and had to house 2 tractors so was super cramped. I'm obviously pretty pumped to have bigger space, full insulation, heat, etc. Thanks to everyone in advance for passing on the wisdom.

Cheers

[tweake]

plywood walls for sure. then you can hang things anywhere. drywall is a pain.
certainly an office would be good, tho house might be warmer/cooler.

my work has an office/lunchroom/toilet built in one end with storage space above.
have just made a mechanics room which houses spare parts etc. that keeps dust and crap out of the parts. also houses the air compressor.

[Spartan]

My shop build lessons learned:

Give yourself lots of 120v outlets and break them up to only 2 or 3 drops max per circuit. 20 amp wiring and breakers is ideal. Even put some drops at a few places on the ceiling. Also give yourself more than enough 220v drops for equipment around the shop, even if you only currently need a couple 220v outlets, give yourself more. Don't try to save on the wiring. Give yourself 50 amps minimum for those circuits. You'll never regret spending that extra money on wiring right from the get go.

Lighting. Put in more than you think you need, and break them into circuits so you can you can easily increase/decrease the lighting as you need. Dimmers can also help with this depending on your lighting setup, but it's real nice to be able to hit a second switch and take your "normal" lighting up to "wow, that's bright as hell" when needed.

[BugHunter]

If you're thinking 40x40 is going to be perfect, build 80x80.

I'd do a steel building hands down. I"m doing one right now, and wouldn't go any other way. If you can DIY the build, it's even better.

Don't skimp on the height. NOW is the time to decide on that. Height doesn't cost much.

Use wall-mount openers for the doors. Get the type that attach right to the spring shaft. They work for any size door, vs a commercial opener that will have tracks and works for only certain doors. They also keep 100% of the ceiling space available for you. If you're installing a lift, they are a must. (gains an extra foot height at least).

If allowed, consider installing a pit. I put one in my last garage and loved it. No lifting necessary to do simple oil changes and maintenance work. They're awesome, just not allowed in some locations.

[BillE.Dee]

Go bigger if you can. Can you go with heated floors? Draw a map of the heating system and all the wiring. DON'T allow anyone to store something in YOUR building. They say it will only be for 2 days. HORSE HOCKEY !! 2 day storage is the same thing as a 15 minute weld job...NON EXISTENT.

[Poland308]

If it’s stored in my shop for more than 2 days, then somebody died and either way it’s mine now.

[BillE.Dee]

that's funny, Josh. I'm suffering from bride syndrome,,,my bride put her stuff in the shop the intentions of getting a sheshed. Hasn't happened (prices went spastic) and it's just a good thing that I don't bus driver belly.

[Coldman]

I have a 4T monorail with a rolled turn to get around back of the front corner office. Fitted with 2 x 2T girder trolleys and chain blocks. Use it all the time. Don't need or own a forklift.

[Jim Bridger]

Coldman -
can you post pic or describe in more detail? I'm sketching out storage above the carved out 12x12 closed off room since i will have another 4 feet space above it to the building ceiling for storage and obviously lot of longer steel sticks can/will go up there.

Thank you everyone already for posted comments/suggestions. Already am increasing size as budget allowed me to go to 40x50 and also have idea for how to wall off entire combing plywood sheets and white metal. thanks BugHunter for reminding me of the wall mount openers = i really had wished i had those in my old shop and forgot about it.

[Coldman]

Mono.jpg (316.06 KiB) Viewed 7721 times

[Poland308]

Nice!

[BugHunter]

Other ideas now that I'm thinking about it... I'm not sure how long you intend to be at this location, but I tend to build for until I die + 10 years... (then I move of course)

Wash bay drain (possibly a grey water drain) if you can. Depends on your grade slope if that can work. (as well as codes/codes officers).

Raise the building above surroundings, and REALLY go overkill on the drainage situation around it. Also, make sure all the underground drain pipes are for-ev-or types. Digging up drains that got a tree root in em isn't fun. Goes without saying, keep trees away from anything underground. Roots generally disperse as far as the foliage above, so make sure nothing underground has any chance of getting shade over it or you'll regret it.

In my shop here, I've got 12-2 SJO hanging from the ceiling conduits with handy-boxes and receptacles for plugging in tools with the wires hanging above. They are literally daily use items I will NEVER be without again. Man it's nice having a receptacle hanging over your work area. Mine have been there for 30+ years without issue, and will be replaced or moved soon, only due to the roof being raised 6' with the current construction / rebuild. (New building was built over top of my place here and I'm tearing down the old building from inside, then hanging all the mechanicals from the new structure as the roof is removed. It's nothing like new construction ).

If you don't have a forklift, start shopping for a used steal on a stand-up Raymond Reach Truck. I just got one (stole) months ago and it's the most awesome thing ever. I have a man-basket for any forklift, but this thing works 200% better than the other machines I have here. It isn't for outdoor use, needs a very flat surface to run on. But wow is it maneuverable and it's got 180" lift height with reach. Even with my 23' ceilings, I can do the electrical / mechanical maintenance work with just that. A buddy of mine does car salvage and I got one for him too. Both of us are happy as clams with the things. He can pick up and dispose of car frames and carcasses in an area not much bigger than a regular 2 car garage, and has room to spare.

Power-troweled floors with "Cure-n-seal" or today's equivalent product.

Contact someone who really knows about concrete to specify your mix for the floor. Don't just say I want "concrete" or you'll get the cheapest crappiest stuff they can send. Pay the extra like some people / companies do for the various additives and the floor will be indestructible. There are some special buzz-words that concrete people have in order to ask for top quality mud. It'll cost an extra $20-40 / yard, but it's nice stuff. I have a guy in mind I'm thinking of from another forum who does concrete work and can tell you what to ask for. If you're interested, PM me.

If you ever intend to do an overhead crane, look into it before starting the build or design. Most steel buildings are not intended to take side-load, so they are not rated for a crane, nor would you be able to insure it. I personally think it's stupid seeing my current building and how it reacts to side load, but those are the rules. A crane, even at 1000# max, would need it's own stand-alone structure if you didn't design it in first. That means more posts and such, which you won't like later.

I just had a Pittsburgh Seamed standing seam roof done here, and it's quite a nice idea. No fasteners in the roof at all. The roof sits on "bridges" which separate the roof from the structure underneath. (w/insulation between). Then there's no thermal connection to the roof and the roof 100% floats for expansion. Additionally, all the seams of the sheets are rolled together along with the tops of those isolation bridges, so basically the entire building roof is 1 piece when done. Highly recommended, and not any additional money really. Obviously, a steel building or similar would be needed to do that. It could go over bar-joists and roof deck I suppose. Mine has the insulation w/vapor barrier white stuff underneath as the ceiling, and then the batts of insulation above to make it R36, with the metal on top. Then a machine seals the seams and it's done. Most standing seam roofs have screws under a lap, this has none.

As I think of anything else, I'll be back. (you've been warned!)

[Jim Bridger]

BugHunter -

Thank you very much, these are awesome tips/suggestions. Fortunately my laid out spot is a solid one and away from trees with fairly easy place to run my dry well for the drain inside. There are quite a few of your suggestions I'll be incorporating. I am not going to make mistake of not having something for lift capacity again so i've got forks and will build a man basket that i can use around our place with one of our tractors. This shop will be big enuf i can lift things inside which will be nice.

Send me your concrete post if you can. Our sidewalls just got poured and two weeks from now our slab will go down.

FWIW = your last comment on the standing seam roof, we had one on our last house and one thing that happened was the steep temp swings in montana would expand/contract the metal and we'd get popping noises every once in awhile. Especially when morning sun would hit it after a cold night. I'm curious if you see/experience the same thing.

[BugHunter]

I've got a man-basket here also, and I use that with the forklift for everything. It's many years old and I am likely to build a new one soon with the intent of making it with a 1' platform to help with the very last bit of height I need. My lift truck is limited to 180" height, and my ceiling is 'just' high enough that I'm forced to stretched to reach, so I'll be making a new one with a slight additional lift. I don't need much. I also have 8' fork extensions (super heavy, >150# each) that I use with the basket, and that helps me to get to all the hard to reach places. My forklift is a 'reach' truck, so it's got a scissors extension that gives about an extra 3' of reach. When an item has open area underneath with legs on the floor, I can drive the lift truck feet under it, and reach a total of 11' past the mast. It's awesome for hard to reach areas over machines and tables which are too heavy to move.

I've noticed 'some' noises, but I don't sleep here at work so I don't care. There's no where near the noise I was expecting. I'm doing maintenance and office work today, and it's silent out there. I'd be hard pressed to say there's any noise from the roof. Keep in mind, mine is really standing up on 'stilts" with those bridges. So there's almost no mechanical connection to the steel structure.

Here's a pic taken with my drone during the construction. You can see the bridges out ahead of the guys. There's a layer of insulation under the roof panel where they are, so really I'm not hearing much noise. And today is broken clouds with lots of sun, so I think this would be a bad day as they go. Not as bad as winter, but I don't often come here and there's no machines running so it's unlikely i'll hear the roof much.

Dji_0147 - Copy.jpg (168.29 KiB) Viewed 7156 times

[BugHunter]

Here's a better pic of the bridge gizmos. There's also those tabs in the foreground that have the piece sticking up that gets rolled into the roof seams to hold it down.

The bridge is screwed down, then those little tab things get screwed to the top of the bridge, then the roofing goes on top of that.

Img_0423.jpg (177.55 KiB) Viewed 7145 times

[Jim Bridger]

If people still following this = does anyone have suggestions for shop lighting? Building is 40x50 with 14' ceiling. I decided to drywall and paint whole thing. I'm looking for most ideal lighting setup.

thanks!

[cj737]

I’m a huge fan of Solatubes. During daylight hours, they bring in ample natural light with no heat gain, and I’ve augmented with 4’ LED tube fixtures for “after hours” work. From dawn to dusk, I might only turn on a specific task light on a machine when using the mill or lathe, but otherwise, it’s the Solatubes. My shop is also 14’ at the ridge and I have the LED fixtures spaced between and below the tubes. Ceiling is spray foamed as are the gable ends. Walls are covered mostly with thin gauge steel. Works a treat.

[BugHunter]

I bought Hi-Bay lights off ebay for my new building. BillEDee can attest to the light output as he was just here this week. There are 100w equivalent (really only draws about 75W on a meter) which are around $20 ea. Well worth it. I also bought similar ones for $40 just to see the difference. The $40 ones do have nicer heat-sinks and are heavier. But so far I'd rate them equal as for light output and the cheaper ones are actually nicer to install. All are simple 110V AC. Get the ones made for your ceiling height. They do make them with differing cone angles for taller or shorter buildings. Sets of 3 or 4 are anywhere from $60 to $160 and FS.

[BugHunter]

Also check out Amazon for "Barina" 4' LED T5 fixtures. You get 8 with all the wiring for $50 and FS. I have the daylight versions and they're awesome, especially in areas with 8-10' ceilings. I've got them in my machine shop as well as my garage at home.

[BugHunter]

Barina lights: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DN ... UTF8&psc=1

HiBay lights:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/143666676555

https://www.ebay.com/itm/402620895336

(edit) Keep in mind, those hi-bay lights above are a cone angle for 24' ceilings, which is what I have. If your ceiling is not as tall, you'll want a wider cone angle.

[BillE.Dee]

Buggy is right about the new lights. First he turned on the old shop lights then he turned on the LIGHT, which above the welding table. Turned that area into daylight while the rest of the shop was under the old lights. One thing that I didn't pay close attention to was shadows, but who the hell works under the table?
Those new lights are very impressive for the size of the fixture.

[Jim Bridger]

Awesome = Thanks you guys