[TamJeff]

For lack of a better term. It happens to me quite often. I will be somewhere buying materials or equipment, and will get approached by someone peddling new, or barely used tools.

I instantly suspect they are stolen so I say "no thank you." Okay, I'm not really that polite. I have been ripped off before. At the time, there was no recourse. It was very unlikely that the cops were going to find my stuff, and if they did, it was going to be tied up longer than I could do without them. Either way, I am out hundreds of dollars in an instant out of pocket, not to mention the loss of the tools themselves. My first thought turns towards the thieves. My second thought to those who create a market for such things.

With that said, when someone approaches you with too good a deal to pass up, do you look the other way, figure you may as well buy them because somebody will, or do you, like me, become awfully uncomfortable to be around rather suddenly?

The reason I posted this topic is because today, an acquaintance just had to show me the deal he got on a new top brand circ. saw, cordless drill and some top tier pneumatic tools by a parking lot 'solicitor' for pennies on the dollar. He expected me to celebrate with him, but instead I got increasingly pissed off about it. I say "increasingly" because of the multiple steps of justification the conversation took on his part. I'm just thinking of the poor guy who likely lost his livelihood or just the emotions that surround getting ripped off.

I'm not looking for justification for my attitude on such matters. Maybe I am a little too self-righteous and I can accept that. Perhaps I take this whole brotherhood thing a little too seriously at times, but that just has to be the worst thing. I basically told the guy that if he had a shred of decency, at least look up the serial #'s and see if they are indeed stolen and he can find the owner and I bet he offers to at least pay him back the pennies he is out for recovering his things. Then he says. . ."Oh yeah, right. . .the guy will figure I stole them and am trying to scam him for a reward." Then offer to give them back free of charge and chalk it up to that it should cost you for being willfully ignorant.

[weldin mike 27]

Hey,


Im with you 100% on this, cant stand the thought of scraping and scratching to support your lively hood then someone takes it away in a fraction of a second. Deals to good be true are really just that. Mostly the "proceeds" of said tools are no where near the replacement value and also the worth in business terms. As an asset to the owner. Scumbags.

Mick.

[noddybrian]

I agree 100% if the vendor looks " that sort" ! - it should be legal to shoot travellers / pickeys on sight.

Exception to the usual rules - when a big company you've given good service to lays you off to keep some relative of the boss / foreman that's useless & tries to shaft you on moneys owed when leaving then it's fine in my book to take goods / tools / materials of saleable value to match how much they robbed you ! - maybe not a popular outlook - just saying.

[WerkSpace]

The same dilemma holds true of auctions. Some unfortunate individual has lost his business/home and all of his assets to the bank or authorities, only to be auctioned off, to the highest bidder. I was recently at an RCMP (police auction) whereby not many people showed up due to a major accident on the highway leading to the auction site. Needless to say, the items went for fractions of pennies on the dollar. There were a lot of high end tools that were selling for $5 or less. Nobody questions where the authorities got these tools from or how they came to exist in the authorities hands. At the end of the day, most people attending this auction went home with a smile on their face, while not really questioning the circumstances that led up to this event.

I've noticed the same sort of behavior at the government auctions. The government is practically giving away very expensive items to those who dare to bid on them at the public auctions. Who paid for these expensive tools in the first place? and if nobody bids on them, will the government simply destroy them and call it a day.

The wiser thieves wouldn't waste their time in a parking lot, when they could simply set up a garage sale in another county, whereby the tools are usually the very first items to sell. Thieves will always take the easy road thru life. There are many deterrents that will slow them down and if they are lazy enough, these deterrents are effective. Products such as Dye-Witness and Pepper Spray have been known to be effective when rigged as a booby trap. Sometimes the authorities and legal system don't take kindly to such extreme measures. Another product on the market is the fog cannon and it is very effective.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-NWDTDtePI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpwF8yvE13A

[noddybrian]

I wonder about these auctions as well - they try to tell you it's from drug dealers - well if it's a speed boat or Mercedes then good chance it is - but I don't think I'd want to own something from this source - partly on principal - partly on the chance if they see it they'll likely want to take it back ! but have you ever seen drug dealers buying Snap-On tools ?

On tools at auction my take is this - if it looks like company stuff with fleet numbers on tools even if the bank shafted someone hopefully it was not their own personal stuff - probably a limited company - the guy folds one day - starts up in another name the next - another bank fronts him some money - there are plenty do this in the UK - they run bills up all over then roll over - don't pay for anything they've had & all the money from 6months or so trading has disappeared - then they start up & do it all over again - hate it but it's common.

If tools have a guys initials stamped on then you should never ever touch them - that's like robbing someone - only way I'd buy tools with initials on is if a guy is retiring / moving & wants shot of them or if a relative is selling off from someone that's passed - then I'm OK paying a fair price - but I want to know how they come to be selling - I've "lost" some expensive & hard to replace tools over the years & if I ever found stuff with my initials on with someone else I'd be giving them a " life choice lesson" - don't care about CCTV or DNA !

[Otto Nobedder]

I have come across some sweet deals, where my confidence was high it was legitimate.

Rural estate sales can produce good finds, with someone else's initials on them. Yard sales (again, rural) can produce some gems.

Sometimes, a hand in a bind will sell something he rarely uses.

A parking-lot sale of high-end tools, though, will cause me to discreetly call the cops.

Steve S

[TamJeff]

First clue is when they are asking less then they would get at just about any local pawn shop. The tools he bought were way less. One of the RO sanders he had retails for around 180 new and it wasn't far from that. We used to have these guys show up on our job sites and at our shop sometimes.

I can tell the difference between someone down on luck and a scamster on most days.

[WerkSpace]

Anyone know much about cordless impact wrenches?
I went looking for a decent one and bought the IR W7150.
It was a bit on the expensive side, but looks like it'll do the job.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LomK7l7QXAE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAe0ZYAOB3E

[Otto Nobedder]

Werkspace,

On a steel mill shutdown in Iowa, we would "run up" flange studs with a 3/8" drive Makita cordless. Hundreds of them. Got at least 75 to a charge on 3/4" or larger studs (meaning 15/16" and larger nuts).

Went back with the torque wrench, and found some were overtightend.

I'm not a big fan of many cordless tools, but something in the nature of how an impact driver works means you get just as much torque on the last 20% of charge as with a fresh battery.

Steve S

[TamJeff]

Speaking of cordless tools, I recently purchased a new Makita Li-ion 18v drill. I had read some favorable reviews beforehand and I have had great luck with Makita over the years. Mostly screw guns for drywall and corded drills and saws. I buy the drill and start reading further online about battery life etc. Then a butt load of reviews mentioning "chuck wobble." Well I'll be damned, but the chuck does indeed wobble. The drill comes with a Jacobs 4000 series (pro-semi pro quality) chuck which actually works quite nicely. So I also checked other brand drills at our shop. DeWalt, Rigid, Hitachi and they all do it! My corded Makita that is about 25 years old does not, nor do my mid quality pneumatic drills. So I read further and come to find out, Makita is now made in China. WTF? The whole idea for spending more was a better quality tool across the board. Anyway, I also bought a Jacobs 6000 series (quite nice) chuck and replaced the stock Jacobs and it still does it. The run-out is actually made into the drill shaft.

Only thing I could think of is QC in China must have tested it with their own bits, which come warped brand new. The drill works well otherwise, but dammit man, 170.00 for a drill, it really ought to be a bit more precise than that. Yes, I know, for precision one would opt for the drill press etc, but when you use a lot of 1/8th" bits as I do for drilling vents on polished pipe, the flex fatigue factor from the wobble can be unnerving, or the fact that you may have to use letter drills to compensate for oversized holes is as well.

[jwmacawful]

speaking for myself only here; I always mark my tools and I never deal with tweakers. in any capacity. karma's a m.f!! while you're buying from them they are sizing you and your stuff up for the next heist. always consider the source.

[echosixmike]

I saw this thread and figured it'd be about those SOB's who "borrow" your tools and then return them broken/wornout/filthy or simply leave them around the shop where ever they finished with them. I hate those guys.

I had some jackass try to sell me lifting slings in a T/A parking lot last week.

"Sure thing dickhead, I'm going to buy certified overhead lifting, life support items from some dude walking up to me in a parking lot in Gary, IN. Buddy, you need to thank your dealer, he gave you the 'Good Stuff' this time."

I think I may have hurt his feelings. S/F....Ken M

[TamJeff]

I saw this thread and figured it'd be about those SOB's who "borrow" your tools and then return them broken/wornout/filthy or simply leave them around the shop where ever they finished with them. I hate those guys.

S/F....Ken M

No, those are tool abductors. On that subject. . .when I was breaking into the trades, it was known that you were going to take a percentage of your earnings and outfit yourself with your own basic hand tools if you didn't have them already. Tape measures, hammers, screw drivers etc and was part of the probationary period. These days, they don't even show up with a tape measure. I try telling my boss to quit furnishing hand tools and that it is important for these kids to have some stake in the game.

There is no less than 10 tape measures of various quality lying about the shop, yet there is never one at the ready. Customer shows up with a boat and I have one clipped to my pocket out of habit. I have two. One that is always with me and a spare in the drawer. If I had 5, I would have 5 in various states of condition that I was always looking for. Same with cigarette lighters. Keep one and you will feel naked without it in your pocket. 5, and you will leave them about until they all disappear. I used to use the same lighter until it was empty every time. I've bought 3 tape measures over the last 6 years. My boss, 16. None of his which survived to even a half life. Left on a boat or out in the rain. Then guess who's they go for? Canvas guy showed up without one and borrowed mine, and like a community bic lighter, took it with him when he left out of habit of supposing to have one. I show up and can't work. Had to call the idiot to bring it back pronto and I sure let him know it. Cost me an hour.

I use a basic chrome classic Stanley tape measure as I have since I started working. My boss will come across a buy 1 get one free, rubberized, standard/metric with mag wheels and flames down the side and insist I have one. I put them back in his tool box with all the other chinese gimmick stuff. It should be obvious by now that I have this whole measuring/math/tool thing down pat.

[Otto Nobedder]

I hear you...

My main tape is a 30' chrome Stanley I've had for almost 25 years, re-bladed twice when they'd still trade blades for free, and once on my dime. It stays in my box, and comes out when I get down to business, like my Starrett layout tools.

I have a dollar-store chinese SAE only tape that's clipped to my belt most of the time, because I won't cry if it vanishes, but every time I buy (or am given) one of those cheapies, it gets pulled to at least 16' next to my Stanley and compared the whole length. I'm actually surprised how good the chinky tapes have become; I've only trashed one in several years.

Oh, and lighters... Like ink pens, if you have several, you'll soon have none. That's why I prefer a Zippo. Not only is it far safer around MIG/Stick/plasma/torch work, if you have $25 in your lighter, you guard it, and know if it's missing from your pocket.

The only time I have to watch my tools is when we have a new hire. We're a small shop, mostly older hands, and generally have an "open box" policy to share tools... Each of us has things no one else has, many of them expensive. There's a mutual respect for those tools, and they find their way back, until we have a new hire. Usually some kid just out of school or trying to move up from a production shop who doesn't yet understand what it means to have $10K plus invested in his livelihood.

Steve S

[TamJeff]

I hear you...

Steve S

A lot of tools they don't make the same anymore. Is why even if they may not be ultimately expensive to replace in the event they get stolen, us old hands get familiar with things that work. I am used to the 'feel' of a classic Stanley tape measure and they have very few moving parts. No dummy brakes or built in level. Sure, I could get used to something else but, if it isn't broken. . .

He buys the wild tape measures that rival some of the new, far out styles of Nike sneakers we see these days. I tell him. . ."look at my shoes, they don't glow or have bunny gel in the soles. I'm not the guy who gets hand fatigue or damage from his non-ergonomically correct tape measure. My hands are not 'pink' like a baby gerbil." lol

[jwmacawful]

sorry, but I gotta disagree with the gentleman a couple posts above. my
"stake in the game" in my bosses business is my skill, labor and pride in doing every job to the best of my ability. I have no personal tools on the job. I was issued all the tools I needed plus some I didn't when I started working for this employer. I still have every tool. still have the same tape measure although I've changed the blades several times even though my boss doesn't want me taking the time to do it. plenty of other guys are careless with their stuff and couldn't care lees if a tool gets broke. some take equipment home like the shop is some kind of free home depot. but guess what? that's on them. the careless attitude about tools carries over into other parts of their lives. sloppy working area, unsafe work practices, always taking the short cut that inevitably takes twice as long in the end and slovenly personal appearance. these guys are easy to spot and even easier to stay away from.

[Otto Nobedder]

I would love to have been issued all the tools I need for my job.

So far, I've got about $10K in my tools. That's about average in my shop for the older hands.

The company buys all consumables and welding tools, all air tools, electric drills and grinders, everything you could imagine, except for the tools in my box. Hell, they buy my boots, gloves, and prescription safety glasses. My hand tools are my own responsibility, and I take pride in them.

I'd love for my employer to buy me $400 in Starrett layout tools, or $800 in combination wrenches to the sizes I need, but I was expected, as a tradesman, to own some stuff of my own.

The employer is only required by law to provide all required safety equipment (and most companies find ways around that).

Steve S

[jwmacawful]

I do however have to buy my own work clothes.

[Otto Nobedder]

I do however have to buy my own work clothes.

That's ironic.

My company provides uniforms. They were free for the first two years, and now cost very little compared to what I used to spend on the road.

Steve S

[TamJeff]

I think of how many jobs I got for showing up with tools ready to work. Florida is a "Right to Work" state and competition can be fierce at times. Show up with a hundred foot cord over one shoulder, pouches over the other and screw guns and hand tools in a bucket. Often commercial jobs would need framers as well as hangers and more often than not, the jobs would be piecework. Tell the superintendent that you are equipped to both frame and hang and you have just gained job security and won't be walking across site to share a chop saw. 'Community' tools were almost always lacking, having been abused by people who have no stake in them or just not optimal for piecework performance, or hoping that you get the good 'one' before someone else does. This has been the same with grinders and everything else in just about every shop I have worked at with community tools.

The job I am at now, which I started as a pieceworker, their band saw's tires were hanging off of the rims because someone left the blade tightened on it for months without use. I brought my own in, which is tuned for optimal performance and with portable dust collection to boot and I was making money on day 1 and had keys to the shop on day two. Surely, anyone with such a collection of self maintained and practical tools is likely who they say they are. No probationary period, no climbing up through the pay scale ranks. An independent contractor at the very least.

Like Otto, I have thousands of initial investment in my tools, which have paid for themselves so many times over just by the jobs I got by showing up with them, never mind what I actually earned using them, not to mention side work, which has gotten me over some seemingly insurmountable rough patches throughout the years.

[weldin mike 27]

Hey,

On the subject of "zero stake" Its almost beggars belief to see what some people will do to tools and property that they have no stake in.

Mick

[TamJeff]

Hey,

On the subject of "zero stake" Its almost beggars belief to see what some people will do to tools and property that they have no stake in.

Mick

Last guy I fired took great pleasure in ruining band saw blades. A new one every day. He would twist the part so hard in the blade that it would take all of the set out of the teeth, causing the blade to overheat and be trash in minutes. I caught him laughing about it and abusing it on purpose. Out you go, trick ass, big-shot-harley-builder. You know the type. Fancy themselves being OCC tv bike builders but is really just a mamma's boy.

One blade lasts me up to 4 months or more. The difference between us is, I was piecework and he was hourly. He was just a dick because he couldn't contend on the floor.

Brought my own saw and blades in and was back in the money.