[drummerwelder856]

so I'm really trying to figure out where i want to go to work at.. its one company that is interested in me taking there test they paying $38hr night is $58hr field work is $70hr.. its a non union job!!!!

and one of the UA local has been interested in me cause i was one of the top welders in the class and they said they in need of more black welders that can weld.. i actually thought it was hard for black ppl to get in the UA cause i really never see them... but but my teacher retired from the UA and he told me i shut go to the UA to work he knows i can past the test... there packet plan is great tho wit i see..

so what do y'all think i shut do, and can y'all give me some insight??? I'm very confident i can past the test!!!

i went in to school knowing nothing bout welding never touch a touch in my life, now I'm a welder, still don't kno much tho but i can weld lol!!!

Hope everyone is have a Great Holiday

[Otto Nobedder]

Congratulations! To exit school with multiple prospects speaks not only to how well you did, but how you approached the schoolwork. You were noticed!

Union or not? That's a tough call, for sure!

You'll hear both good and bad about the Union route and the non-union route. Ask 12 people and get 13 opinions.

The Union route has many benefits, including the ability to start planning your retirement from day one, as well as many other fringes. The Union will also help you with continuing education in welding. One downside is that when work is short, members with seniority get preference for jobs. (That becomes an upside, when you've been with them 20 years.) I'm sure other members will comment here with more information.

The non-union route can put you in the good money quickly, and will give you the opportunity to learn far more broadly then welding alone. Downside? It's less stable in general and you have no advocate to represent you if you're unfairly fired.

Just food for thought, while waiting on better responses.

Steve S

[Wes917]

Take both tests and see what happens. I've worked both union and non union. Perks to both. Best case you get an offer from each, then you pull out your sheet of paper and write out pluses and minuses of each. See which meets your individual needs. You'll more than likely get more leeway the union way, the non union you will be expected to perform at a high level from day one more than likely especially at that price range. Don't perform you'll get walked out. Perform and things are great. Go with your gut, I've found that's usually best.

[drummerwelder856]

Congratulations! To exit school with multiple prospects speaks not only to how well you did, but how you approached the schoolwork. You were noticed!

Union or not? That's a tough call, for sure!

You'll hear both good and bad about the Union route and the non-union route. Ask 12 people and get 13 opinions.

The Union route has many benefits, including the ability to start planning your retirement from day one, as well as many other fringes. The Union will also help you with continuing education in welding. One downside is that when work is short, members with seniority get preference for jobs. (That becomes an upside, when you've been with them 20 years.) I'm sure other members will comment here with more information.

The non-union route can put you in the good money quickly, and will give you the opportunity to learn far more broadly then welding alone. Downside? It's less stable in general and you have no advocate to represent you if you're unfairly fired.

Just food for thought, while waiting on better responses.

Steve S

yea i was thinking bout the union cause of the great benefits the UA has, my teacher said its like a gold mine lol... but i was thinking bout going NON union to get experience for a couple of yrs... then go union so i didn't have to start out as a 1or2 yr apprentice but i still have a couple of weeks to decide!! i just don't want to make the wrong decision..... thank for the insight Otto....

[drummerwelder856]

Take both tests and see what happens. I've worked both union and non union. Perks to both. Best case you get an offer from each, then you pull out your sheet of paper and write out pluses and minuses of each. See which meets your individual needs. You'll more than likely get more leeway the union way, the non union you will be expected to perform at a high level from day one more than likely especially at that price range. Don't perform you'll get walked out. Perform and things are great. Go with your gut, I've found that's usually best.

yea i had that in mind of taking both, cause i know i would have to do a stick out flip flop test for the union and the non union is stick all way out 6g..

and i do hear of non U jobs working u hard specially wen u are one of there top welders or can just weld very good...

and I'm figure both jobs are paying over $100k a yr.. but i wood like to know the benefits and stuff.. it really didn't matter where i go, i just want to work, which ever one wants to higher me after i pass the test and the money is right I'm gonna go... like i said b4 i just want to work and get all the experience and good X-rays to put under my belt!!!

[Superiorwelding]

drummer,
You do have some skill but I am curious how you get a job offer of $100K right out of school? I am not saying you are lying but I think you might need to look deeper at the jobs, especially the UA. I tested out a month or so ago and passed and was offered a job with them jumping in as a third year apprentice. The whole time we talked before the test it was always "you will be making $32 a hour plus benefits". Umm no. You start out at $19 a hour for the first year and then progress through the pay scale. I seriously laughed when they asked what I make a hour and then sayed "well, you would be taking a pay cut for a while". A while, try forever. You DO NOT start with the UA at the top rate form what I have seen. Just be cautious about companies reeling you in with promises of grandure.

Personally, I would take both tests. It is foolish for anyone not to look at all offers even if you are not interested.
-Jonathan

[Wes917]

drummer,
You do have some skill but I am curious how you get a job offer of $100K right out of school? I am not saying you are lying but I think you might need to look deeper at the jobs, especially the UA. I tested out a month or so ago and passed and was offered a job with them jumping in as a third year apprentice. The whole time we talked before the test it was always "you will be making $32 a hour plus benefits". Umm no. You start out at $19 a hour for the first year and then progress through the pay scale. I seriously laughed when they asked what I make a hour and then sayed "well, you would be taking a pay cut for a while". A while, try forever. You DO NOT start with the UA at the top rate form what I have seen. Just be cautious about companies reeling you in with promises of grandure.

Personally, I would take both tests. It is foolish for anyone not to look at all offers even if you are not interested.
-Jonathan

Jonathan

That was my first thought as well, most guys go their whole careers without making that kind of money, let alone right out of school with no experience. If it happens for ya, that's great but don't be disappointed if it doesn't happen. I just worry its another "teacher" setting a guy up for disappointment. There's a "teacher" around here famous for that. He has these high school kids believing they'll make $35/hr right out of school, and after a year of looking their taking jobs for $15 and being pissed, where if they'd have taken the first offer for that right out of school that year experience would put them in contention for $20/hr jobs at the same time they were taking their first job. I have found in this industry like most, experience is what gets you the money.

[Superiorwelding]

Wes,
I am anxious to see his response.
-Jonathan

[drummerwelder856]

drummer,
You do have some skill but I am curious how you get a job offer of $100K right out of school? I am not saying you are lying but I think you might need to look deeper at the jobs, especially the UA. I tested out a month or so ago and passed and was offered a job with them jumping in as a third year apprentice. The whole time we talked before the test it was always "you will be making $32 a hour plus benefits". Umm no. You start out at $19 a hour for the first year and then progress through the pay scale. I seriously laughed when they asked what I make a hour and then sayed "well, you would be taking a pay cut for a while". A while, try forever. You DO NOT start with the UA at the top rate form what I have seen. Just be cautious about companies reeling you in with promises of grandure.

Personally, I would take both tests. It is foolish for anyone not to look at all offers even if you are not interested.
-Jonathan

well i can weld never welded in my life and this is something that can super natural to me within 12wks stick and tig on pipe...
i am concerned about the UA offer tho, I'm thinking if i past that test they will put me in a 2nd yr apprentice, now my teacher wouldnt lie to me, he been welding over 30yrs he retired from the UA but something aint right to me tho, cause a guy came in from the local 420 in philly one of the biggest locals... and I'm really thinking they just want to get the top guys out of the schools so they don't go to the non union employers there competitors.. my teacher said that to me.. and also my teacher son just got in the union they pout him in his 3rd yr, he will be making $150k a yr, but i really think that has a lot to do with his experience, but i know for sure the job that is interested in me they are paying $38hr and rate jobs are union rates at $70hr, and he knows we are coming out of school, and they don't have any good welding really, he was begging my teacher to send him all his welders wen they was done in school and said don't send them to the union lol, thought that was kind of desperate..

but hey like y'all said these guys could just be jerkin our sticks and just trying to get the top welders in, just to treat us like shit and don't pay... that i don't got time for.. ill get my ass right on RoadTechs and try and find some work.. so I'm gonna take all y'all opinions and use them wisely, and I'm definitely gonna take both test... i think if they say they gonna offer this I'm a person that well keep them to that offer, or ill take my talents else wheres and work for the competition...

and i really don't have anything to lie bout really, they might be lying to me, but i will find that out, this week...
and then hearing that the UA needs more black ppl, i looked at there graduating class and its like 1 black guy in every class.. or maybe a lot of them can't weld idk man lol, but something just aint right thats why i ask for y'all opinions!!!!

[Superiorwelding]

Thank you for the response. Again, I don't think you are lying but I don't know anyone who makes 6 figures out of school unless you have connections on the pipeline or similar job. I have been doing this for 8 years and am close but not yet there to 6 figures at my experience. Just be careful is all I am saying. I would appreciate you getting back to us when you do find out the specifics. I wish you the best of luck for sure.

To be completely honest and lay all my cards on the table, I believe they might be yanking your chain to get you to join. I believe they might be quoting you experienced weldors pay and NOT what you would be making. No offences at all but you have zero experience and why would they offer you top pay? If that is the case I want to go make $150K tomorrow by joining the UA. As for the other job, highly unlikely that would be the pay. Now maybe they are really that desperate for help and they are willing to pay those rates but again why would they pay someone with zero to little welding and fabricating experience wages seasoned pros make or would like to make.

These are my opinions and do not necessarily reflect other members views.
-Jonathan

[GreinTime]

Yes but those should be views on any job, not just welding. I had a girl try and tell me she was going to be making $100k out of school (like ITT Tech or something similar) and she got all offended when I just raised my eyebrow... When you see the median wage for a job, any job, they are taking the wages of people that have decades of experience and pay raises into the equation in addition to what the new guys are making from across the country. So, yes, the average wage of a pipeline welder who welds a wage for instance might be $80000 a year, but the living expenses in the Bakken formation in the Dakotas are outrageous.

A friend of mine works 7 17s on a drill rig, 2 on 1 off and him and his buddies drive almost 150 miles to work everyday because they live a state over from where they are working because the living expenses are so high. Think about that. It's cheaper for them to drive 300 miles a day to work and back than it is to pay to live closer to the job site.

Like Jonathan said, we have no reason to believe you are lying, but coming from people in any industry, you have to take pay offerings with a grain of salt until you have a contract or written agreement on wage sitting in front of you guaranteeing that you will receive what you agreed upon. As a mechanic about to be coming out of school, I can expect anywhere from $15-20 an hour flat rate starting out, or if I go into racing anywhere from $30-35k a year starting out.

That's another thing. I make roughly $20k a year now dicking off at a truck stop. I have bills, but no major financial responsibilities and live comfortably. I honestly don't know what I would do with an extra $15-20k a year lol (other than build faster cars and buy more tools).

[Artie F. Emm]

I saw some of those numbers in the original post, and wondered if maybe the employer was goosing the numbers up, trying to attract applicants. Just as a comparison, the Bureau of Labor Statistics says the median wage for a welder is $36,300 (May 2012 data is the most current).
http://www.bls.gov/ooh/production/welde ... razers.htm

That's $17.45 an hour. What they *may* be doing is adding in *their* cost of having an employee, about 10% for federally mandated FICA / FUTA / SUTA taxes, plus the cost of benefits such as vacation and health insurance and whatever else, and then expressing that whole thing in terms of an hourly dollar figure that LOOKS real good but which will not appear in a paycheck.

[drummerwelder856]

Yes but those should be views on any job, not just welding. I had a girl try and tell me she was going to be making $100k out of school (like ITT Tech or something similar) and she got all offended when I just raised my eyebrow... When you see the median wage for a job, any job, they are taking the wages of people that have decades of experience and pay raises into the equation in addition to what the new guys are making from across the country. So, yes, the average wage of a pipeline welder who welds a wage for instance might be $80000 a year, but the living expenses in the Bakken formation in the Dakotas are outrageous.

A friend of mine works 7 17s on a drill rig, 2 on 1 off and him and his buddies drive almost 150 miles to work everyday because they live a state over from where they are working because the living expenses are so high. Think about that. It's cheaper for them to drive 300 miles a day to work and back than it is to pay to live closer to the job site.

Like Jonathan said, we have no reason to believe you are lying, but coming from people in any industry, you have to take pay offerings with a grain of salt until you have a contract or written agreement on wage sitting in front of you guaranteeing that you will receive what you agreed upon. As a mechanic about to be coming out of school, I can expect anywhere from $15-20 an hour flat rate starting out, or if I go into racing anywhere from $30-35k a year starting out.

That's another thing. I make roughly $20k a year now dicking off at a truck stop. I have bills, but no major financial responsibilities and live comfortably. I honestly don't know what I would do with an extra $15-20k a year lol (other than build faster cars and buy more tools).

Jon, Sam, & Artie

like i totally agree with y'all, i know coming out of school u not gonna make that kind of money, and if i do y'all will be the 1st ppl to see my 1st check to let me know if i am gonna make that... but welding period has been booming like crazy lately... actually the financial head person for the UA in my area is coming up to the school and the president to look at students on friday so i will be asking a lot of questions, and see how much they really paying and what they talking bout... and also i heard that every union is not the same, and the rates are different... all I'm trying to find out if these guys are 4 real, and if they are im gonna fake it till i make it lol... plus the good thing bout the union they put u thru school to learn everything bout the trade,
truthfully i don't care what i get payed i just want some experience under my belt right now... i stayed at school a extra week, to get me time in b4 i go take a test.. my teacher is teaching me hands on 6hrs day just burning all day, and teaching me to become a code welder which really takes much time!!!

[drummerwelder856]

Yes but those should be views on any job, not just welding. I had a girl try and tell me she was going to be making $100k out of school (like ITT Tech or something similar) and she got all offended when I just raised my eyebrow... When you see the median wage for a job, any job, they are taking the wages of people that have decades of experience and pay raises into the equation in addition to what the new guys are making from across the country. So, yes, the average wage of a pipeline welder who welds a wage for instance might be $80000 a year, but the living expenses in the Bakken formation in the Dakotas are outrageous.

A friend of mine works 7 17s on a drill rig, 2 on 1 off and him and his buddies drive almost 150 miles to work everyday because they live a state over from where they are working because the living expenses are so high. Think about that. It's cheaper for them to drive 300 miles a day to work and back than it is to pay to live closer to the job site.

Like Jonathan said, we have no reason to believe you are lying, but coming from people in any industry, you have to take pay offerings with a grain of salt until you have a contract or written agreement on wage sitting in front of you guaranteeing that you will receive what you agreed upon. As a mechanic about to be coming out of school, I can expect anywhere from $15-20 an hour flat rate starting out, or if I go into racing anywhere from $30-35k a year starting out.

That's another thing. I make roughly $20k a year now dicking off at a truck stop. I have bills, but no major financial responsibilities and live comfortably. I honestly don't know what I would do with an extra $15-20k a year lol (other than build faster cars and buy more tools).

and also i forgot to mention, that the UA got a bill passed or something like that, that all apprentice will make Journeyman rate so thats why, i said that i cud make over $100k cause thats what is happening right now!!!!

[GreinTime]

I find that part hard to believe man, unless they jumped up journeyman rate in the same scale. There are going to be a lot of walkoffs I would imagine if the kid beside you that just got out of school is making what you've worked your tail off for years to get.

[weldin mike 27]

Agreed Sam. Apprentices can get big rates sometimes but to do that would be riot inducing. Lol

[GreinTime]

I just looked, every pipe fitter UA I just looked up is anywhere from 35-50% of journeyman which ranges from $36-40.

So at best you could be expecting 20 an hour plus benefits, at worst 12 and change.

[drummerwelder856]

I find that part hard to believe man, unless they jumped up journeyman rate in the same scale. There are going to be a lot of walkoffs I would imagine if the kid beside you that just got out of school is making what you've worked your tail off for years to get.

so now what I'm thinking is that they are full of bs, but they say if u can pass da test u make journeyman money, so I'm kind of fucked up right now lol.. i have to actually wait to hear what this guy will say on friday he is the financial secretary/treasure so he the money guy... but he might just be lying tho... but the 1st time he came to the school to visit he said that apprentice make journeyman money now.. so something aint right with the Union... say if i pass the test they put me in my 3rd yr, i still have 7 period to go b4 i get to a journeyman rate, so i ask my self why would they pay a apprentice that journeyman rate...

[Superiorwelding]

Drummer,
You said Local 420. If that is correct than here is your answer. Look at the wages section.
http://www.lu420.org/apprenticeship.asp ... 2364#p2364
-Jonathan

[drummerwelder856]

I just looked, every pipe fitter UA I just looked up is anywhere from 35-50% of journeyman which ranges from $36-40.

So at best you could be expecting 20 an hour plus benefits, at worst 12 and change.

read this this is not a updated but this is wit they paying in local 420?
https://www.mcaepa.org/wp-content/uploa ... 1-2011.pdf

[Superiorwelding]

I don't want you to think we are discouraging you. We just want you to get the facts from them before you write home. We that have been in the field for a while hear all the time "look ma, I am going to make six figures right out of school!" I am sorry but that is just not the case. Not for weldors anyway. Like I said, there are select few who do make that much and I personally know of a pipeliner who makes almost $200K a year BUT he literally lives at work and is single. Also does not help he is good. But we really are talking about two different paths. Just go in and politely ask your questions. Directly asked they can't lie to you nor can they deceive you (well they shouldn't anyway). I am serious tempted to can Local 420 tomorrow for my own interest and see what's up. I wouldn't mention this post though.
-Jonathan

[Superiorwelding]

I just looked, every pipe fitter UA I just looked up is anywhere from 35-50% of journeyman which ranges from $36-40.

So at best you could be expecting 20 an hour plus benefits, at worst 12 and change.

read this this is not a updated but this is wit they paying in local 420?
https://www.mcaepa.org/wp-content/uploa ... 1-2011.pdf

Now I get it!!! They tried that on me as well. They are adding up ALL the wages and telling you you will be making $70+ a hour. You are but you only take home the $43, but again beginning you only get 40% of that.
-Jonathan

[drummerwelder856]

I don't want you to think we are discouraging you. We just want you to get the facts from them before you write home. We that have been in the field for a while hear all the time "look ma, I am going to make six figures right out of school!" I am sorry but that is just not the case. Not for weldors anyway. Like I said, there are select few who do make that much and I personally know of a pipeliner who makes almost $200K a year BUT he literally lives at work and is single. Also does not help he is good. But we really are talking about two different paths. Just go in and politely ask your questions. Directly asked they can't lie to you nor can they deceive you (well they shouldn't anyway). I am serious tempted to can Local 420 tomorrow for my own interest and see what's up. I wouldn't mention this post though.
-Jonathan

yea I'm gonna do that, i know something wasn't right but they shouldnt deceive ppl in thinking they gonna make that kind of money, hey, i guess a lot of ppl fall into that, its a great career in the union but its a lot of flaws what i see... maybe there model shut be this is what u can make!! lol

[drummerwelder856]

I just looked, every pipe fitter UA I just looked up is anywhere from 35-50% of journeyman which ranges from $36-40.

So at best you could be expecting 20 an hour plus benefits, at worst 12 and change.

read this this is not a updated but this is what they paying in local 420?
https://www.mcaepa.org/wp-content/uploa ... 1-2011.pdf

Now I get it!!! They tried that on me as well. They are adding up ALL the wages and telling you you will be making $70+ a hour. You are but you only take home the $43, but again beginning you only get 40% of that.
-Jonathan

well yea i know that cause its in the benefit plan, so i understand that completely, but they shouldn't tell u gonna make this from the jump tho, unless they counting all the overtime u can get!!!

[GreinTime]

So let's do some math here. 20 an hour, we'll say 60 hours a week (5 12s). Your wage is 800 plus 600 in overtime. That's 1400 before taxes. A year, that's 72800 before taxes. Figure 20-25% depending how you claim, your at 54 or so. Take away the overtime, you're at $42k a year, and roughly 30 after taxes.