Yep, another dryer to welder ?

yamahablue · Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:02 pm

I just got my first mig welder and was planning on using the 240 dryer outlet with an extension/adapter setup. I've done some searching and haven't really seen a definite answer to whether or not it's ok to go from a 3 prong dryer to the 3 prong welder.
I'm finding people saying they do it and its fine and others saying it's not good because the welder ground is going to the dryer neutral in that configuration.

So what's the deal?

GreinTime · Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:21 pm

Uhhhh, I've seen it done before, but I would definitely check the configuration of the plug before you fire up your welder. As long as the plug for your welder is wired the same as the plug for your drier (ground and both power legs in the same locations. Doesn't matter which leg goes to what, as long as your common is the same pin. White is typically your ground as long as no one has fiddled with anything.)

GreinTime · Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:23 pm

@Braehill would have a better answer than I, he is better at household wiring than I am. The biggest question would be do you have the juice to run the welder? Most drier plugs I see are rated at 30A or so, and most welders require at least that if not more.

AKweldshop · Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:43 pm

What welder do you have?

yamahablue · Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:08 pm

AKweldshop wrote:What welder do you have?

Miller 211.

AKweldshop · Sat Apr 25, 2015 12:19 am

Look no further then this thread.http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?50 ... or-the-211

Lol!!

Get going man!!!

yamahablue · Sat Apr 25, 2015 12:30 am

AKweldshop wrote:Look no further then this thread.http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?50 ... or-the-211

Lol!!

Get going man!!!

Interesting but I don't see how thats helpful. I wasn't asking if it will work on a 30a circuit, Im wondering about making an adapter, or in this case an extension cord that goes from my 3 prong dryer to the welder plug. So far, on other forums Ive found mixed opinions.

Sat Apr 25, 2015 12:49 am

It will work fine.

220 has two "hot" wires and a neutral, and by code the neutral is tied to ground.

Hook it up and weld!

Steve S

AKweldshop · Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:05 am

Just hook it up.
Black and white are your hots, green is your ground.

Anyway.

Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:08 am

On a 220,

Red and Black are your hot leads, White is the common/neutral/ground.

Steve S

Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:18 am

Nek minnit.... House fire.

AKweldshop · Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:29 am

Otto Nobedder wrote:On a 220,

Red and Black are your hot leads, White is the common/neutral/ground.

Steve S

It might be, but I was referring to the cord on his welder.

AKweldshop · Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:11 am

I guess my statement is irrelevant, being the miller 211 has the mvp plug.
If your only going to be using the welder on the outlet, just go pick up a 6-50 recepticle and put that on your power line.

yamahablue · Sat Apr 25, 2015 3:44 am

Ha ha, I'm confused, it sounded like it's fine and to go for it but now house fire

. And I do still need to run our dryer on the outlet so swapping the recepticle won't work.

Sat Apr 25, 2015 4:03 am

Because of the difference of the opinions, I'd get an electrician to look at it. I would anyway, no matter what.

motox · Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:52 am

mike
in the US we just hook things up if it not right
we call the firemen.
craig

Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:32 pm

On your dryer receptacle, (assuming 50A), the two angled slots are your L1 and L2, and the d-shaped one on the bottom is common/ground.

Assuming your machine's cord has black, white, and green, the black and white go to L1 and L2, in no particular order. The green will go to common/ground.

I get the impression that electricity is not your thing, aside from welding with it, so I have to agree with previous posts...

Consult with someone who IS comfortable with it, and you'll sleep better.

Steve S

rick9345 · Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:48 pm

motox wrote:mike
in the US we just hook things up if it not right
we call the firemen.
craig

In most communities (USA)

Call an electrician = $ charge housecall

Call fire deptment = no charge

yamahablue · Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:44 am

Otto Nobedder wrote:On your dryer receptacle, (assuming 50A), the two angled slots are your L1 and L2, and the d-shaped one on the bottom is common/ground.

Assuming your machine's cord has black, white, and green, the black and white go to L1 and L2, in no particular order. The green will go to common/ground.

I get the impression that electricity is not your thing, aside from welding with it, so I have to agree with previous posts...

Consult with someone who IS comfortable with it, and you'll sleep better.

Steve S

This is a 30 amp dryer recepticle. I'm not an electrician but I'm not completely uncomfortable with it, I work in construction and have done some rough in as well as fixture and 120 recepticle wiring. I don't know enough to go for something like this without at least asking some questions. Now that you've told me that the neutral and ground are bonded at the panel and to go for it I just need to verify that this is the case in my panel. The house was built in 59 and I don't know if it's always been the case that the neutral is bonded to ground.

What actually had me question this setup was when I read people saying wiring the welder ground to the dryer neutral could cause the welders case to become live/hot.

TRACKRANGER · Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:57 pm

yamahablue wrote:
What actually had me question this setup was when I read people saying wiring the welder ground to the dryer neutral could cause the welders case to become live/hot.

You betcha. There is only one point in a house where the Neutral and Earth are bonded, and that's at the main switchboard. Never use an Earth as a Neutral and never use a Neutral as an Earth. Never. Never. If you connected the welder earth to the neutral, and there was a wiring fault that caused the neutral to become live (someone hooks some wires up backwards - even in the house next door, the neutral bond fails, anything), you've now got a live welder. And your new name is Captain Zappo. Never do it.

yamahablue · Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:22 pm

Ha ha, some say do it some say dont, what is the real deal? If it makes a difference this 30a dryer outlet comes straight from the main panel, no sub panel, and is no more than a 20ft. run.
I just want to use this thing but don't want to burn the house down.

Bill Beauregard · Sun Apr 26, 2015 2:21 pm

A Dryer needs a neutral. It should also have an equipment ground. A 20 year old exemption in code once allowed a dryer to have only a neutral, and no equipment ground, if and only if it was supplied at the service disconnect. Some breaker panels are not service disconnects.

If your dryer is supplied from anything other than a properly installed service disconnect panel, DO NOT CONNECT A WELDER TO IT!

Much better, have a competent, (not your brother in law's neighbor, who works for beer), look into it and advise you.

TRACKRANGER · Sun Apr 26, 2015 2:22 pm

yamahablue wrote:Ha ha, some say do it some say dont, what is the real deal? If it makes a difference this 30a dryer outlet comes straight from the main panel, no sub panel, and is no more than a 20ft. run.
I just want to use this thing but don't want to burn the house down.

Hi Yamahablue

I already told you the real deal about the neutral. Believe me, I'm qualified and certified to say it too. (Qualified Electrical Mechanic, certified in Electrical Technology, Electronics technology, Industrial Electronics and Electronic Instrumentation)

Others said get an electrician. I say get an electrician too.

And believe me, anyone who told you to use the Neutral for an Earth clearly hasn't got the slightest clue, and clearly don't care if someone else (you) fries. And don't take this the wrong way, but if you have to question it, it's pretty clear you don't understand how or why it works the way it does and the safety implications.

I can't comment about the load factor, but I can comment about the neutral.

I'm being pretty direct here, because we want to see more posts from you, and we sure won't when something goes wrong...

Don't do it. That's the real deal.

Best

Trevor.

Bill Beauregard · Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:31 pm

TRACKRANGER wrote:
yamahablue wrote:
What actually had me question this setup was when I read people saying wiring the welder ground to the dryer neutral could cause the welders case to become live/hot.

You betcha. There is only one point in a house where the Neutral and Earth are bonded, and that's at the main switchboard. Never use an Earth as a Neutral and never use a Neutral as an Earth. Never. Never. If you connected the welder earth to the neutral, and there was a wiring fault that caused the neutral to become live (someone hooks some wires up backwards - even in the house next door, the neutral bond fails, anything), you've now got a live welder. And your new name is Captain Zappo. Never do it.[/quote

I'm confused when people say the neutral could become live. The neutral is directly connected to the secondary winding at the utility transformer. It is always live. For 120 Volt loads it is half the time the source of power. If a 120 volt motor or light are on, the neutral is flowing power. When the two lines originating at the ends of the utility transformer secondary winding are near balance of current, the neutral flows a small current. Voltage however will change very little, still near 120 volts to either other leg.

yamahablue · Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:50 pm

I sent a text out to a licensed electrical contractor I know asking if its ok to do what I'm asking you guys, his reply was yes. After that I also searched about neutral and ground bonding at the panel and found that neutrals can land on the ground bar and vise versa, because both bars are tied together anyway. So in that case I don't see how doing what I'm asking about would be an issue?