[RamboBaby]

Hi guys,
I'm just wondering how you guys landed your first TIG welding job because that is what I want to do for a living. Most of the ads that I see online ask for many years of professional experience, which I do not have. What I do know is this: many professionals do not make welds that are as pretty as mine (probably because they're in a hurry and it's good enough for what they're doing at the time). I'm not saying that I'm any kind of mac daddy but most of my welds look alright. I do think that my skills are getting to the point where I should be getting paid to do this. Your opinion may differ.

I guess that what I'm really wanting is advice on how to get my foot in the door. I'm not too keen on stick and mig welding because they aren't nearly as much fun as TIG and tend to be geared more toward production. Monotony kills my interest in just about anything.

Any tips on how to go about this would be greatly appreciated.
Raymond

[Otto Nobedder]

My first TIG welding job was a stick/MIG welding/Mechanic Millwright job where I got the opportunity to learn TIG on the job.

Your mileage may vary...

Steve S

[RamboBaby]

I worked in a repair/fab shop off and on for a couple of years. That's how i got introduced to welding. The owner was a drug addict with a really bad attitude and i just couldn't stick around for that kind of abuse. That's how i know that i don't really care for stick and mig. Don't get me wrong, mig is great for buttoning things up fast but having 7014 raining down fire on my head was definitely not my cup of tea. I have a few nice scars from that. The boss knew that it wasn't the right rod for the job and so did I but he told me to use it anyway.....even though i had a box of 6011 which he refused to let me use (welding through heavy paint - what a jerk).
That's my only experience with a welding job but i did more cutting and grinding than i did welding.
As a side note i do have an upcoming side job repairing an aluminum flatbed trailer @ $35/hr. No big deal cause nothing is over 1/4" thick and i have 250 amps at my disposal.
Here's images of some practice i did today (2" X .250" aluminum tubing saddle weld @ 225 amps). Bad fitup because my hole saw would only penetrate 1 3/8" of the tube so i had to turn it over in the notcher which resulted in a really nice gap on one side as evidenced by the crappy looking weld in that area.

[exnailpounder]

Most jobs around here are for welding and fabricating and the only Tig welding jobs are production which means hurry up and get it done. There are high-end car chassis shops looking for talented Tiggers but they usually require experience. If you find a job welding/fabbing for someone else, they are still going to require a set amount of work to be done in an alotted time frame and it burns you out after time. I have a repair shop for off the wall stuff and very little of it entails tig. I get some stainless work from time to time that requires pretty welds but most repairs are mig work. IMO if you want to turn out high quality Tig work and not have someone standing on your neck all day, start your own business or find a company that will let you take your time and make things pretty. There is a member here, TamJeff, who does beautiful aluminum work on tuna towers and things of that nature for boats that, from what I gather, works for someone but they afford him the time to do things right and doing it right is when you get PAID. Just be aware that in a craftsmans mind, every weld should be pretty and the bozo hacks just don't care and still get paid.

PS...your welds look nice. The cerebral palsy on the one area of the saddle T is a textbook example of why good fitup is mandatory. You can sometimes laywire a bad fit on steel but no way on aluminum.

[DLewis0289]

It looks like your are pretty good going around AL tube. You are in Georgia, head East or South for water. Lot of marine places have trouble finding AL TIG guys, boat lift outfits,tuna towers etc. One warning, there will be anodized involved, just another small learning curve and correct equipment.

[RamboBaby]

Thanks for the replies, folks.
I knew that I really needed 1/8" rod for that weld but I don't have any. I also was questioning that hole saw when I bought it the other day and I should have run a ruler into it before I unwrapped it. Turns out that this particular hole 2" saw is only 1 5/8" deep so it isn't suitable for notching tubing. Stick the mandrel into it and now I only get 1 3/8" depth of cut. When it was all said and done I was left with approximately 1/8" gap in that area. The arc force fed the puddle to the back of that gap which was 1/4" deep and i just ran out of finger length to shove that puppy in.
Ultimately I would like to own my own business and building tubular chassis is where my my mind seems to be heading. Good call on that one. I'd really like to build rock crawlers and race cars. (Can you say "steep learning curve"?)
I wasn't aware that there was much difference in welding annodized but I'm headed to youtube to see what I can find on that now.
Thank you for your help brothers!

[plain ol Bill]

Well I freely admit to being an ornery, bitchin old man that calls a spade a spade and is very opinionated. Personally if I were hiring and you showed me those welds I would not hire you. Too coarse for me. You need more experience if you want to use TIG as your only process. Lets face it - TIG is a small corner of the welding world really. Unless you are very lucky and want to make a living as a welder then you need to be proficient in all the processes. Learn to do it all rig it, fit it, and weld it. Do it right the first time cause you don't have time to do it over. Sorry if I busted your bubble.

[RamboBaby]

Naw plain ol Bill, you didn't bust my bubble. Now what would really be good is if you showed me what you would be looking for (if you were hiring).
Some guy posted this photo on facebook welding tips and tricks page several months ago and this is what I aspire to. I can get very close to this with a flat bead but nowhere near it on round tubing.

[Otto Nobedder]

...I wasn't aware that there was much difference in welding annodized but I'm headed to youtube to see what I can find on that now.
Thank you for your help brothers!

Search Paul Sykes' posts here, user name "TamJeff". He works almost exclusively with anodized aluminum, and is both a master and an artist.

Steve S

[RamboBaby]

Thanks Otto, will do. Found a good video on the subject on weld.com (Mr. TIG).

[exnailpounder]

Thanks Otto, will do. Found a good video on the subject on weld.com (Mr. TIG).

[Otto Nobedder]

Thanks Otto, will do. Found a good video on the subject on weld.com (Mr. TIG).

Yeah, I know.

As he sees who knows what he's talking about, he'll figure it out. I'm not going to bad-mouth anyone who's actually trying to teach.

Steve S

[RamboBaby]

I'm not sure what you guys are referring to but the video that I found (basically the only video on welding anodized aluminum) is centered around bump welding with a torch switch through clear anodizing for tuna towers. It's similar to what tamjef wrote here:

http://forum.weldingtipsandtricks.com/v ... t=anodized

Video can be found here. If I'm missing something then please let ke know. I would much rather walk in the light than stumble around in the dark

http://youtu.be/NOvJRZBeDBk

[exnailpounder]

Thanks Otto, will do. Found a good video on the subject on weld.com (Mr. TIG).

Yeah, I know.

As he sees who knows what he's talking about, he'll figure it out. I'm not going to bad-mouth anyone who's actually trying to teach.

Steve S

I gotta admit I have watched Mr. Tig vids a couple times and I always wonder why he sometimes doesn't show his welds. The vid of him welding trim attachment holes on the side of a car closed SHOULD have been the end of him. Jody is in another league compared to MT

[DLewis0289]

Nothing wrong at all using other sources for independent research, you should. I have watched Welding Tips and Tricks for a long time before joining, watched Mr. Tig and others as well and this is where my profiling ability comes out.

Group (1) Guys that have gotten pretty good at welding and try to illustrate their knowledge as best they can, but for a guy that has been welding for 30+ years.....(yawn)

Group (2) Guys that in my opinion are academic first, welder second and present in more of an "instructors" style (Mr. TIG)

Group (3) Now a guy like Jody, started welding before there was an internet, much less YouTube. Became a good welder but figured out early on just being a "pipe welder" or a "structural welder" was not going to support his family to his liking. So he learned everything and went after everything and welded everything for over 30 years. Yes he did his book learning as he grew, but bottom line he put in thousands of hours hands on. Us guys that have done this our entire life can smell BS a mile away. Some of the nuances, statements Jody say's in his videos are things we have heard and said in our careers. Trust me when Jody was young there were jobs he cussed, through his stinger down and just wanted to go home, but he kept welding, kept getting better, asking questions, watching old guys.


Jody say's in a self deprecating way I am not a PhD. Let me tell you what...I know and have worked with Dr. Jerry Gould (Ohio State, Edison Welding Institute). Jerry IS a PhD and brilliant, but if I am picking my tool buddy to go on a job it is Jody without question. If we run into trouble we can send the macro's to Jerry. Hands on time, been there and seen everything for a few decades are the true Master Welders with more tricks in their tool box than tools.

DISCLAIMER: I am profiling based on my observations, I do not know Jody or Mr. TIG.

[RamboBaby]

Ok. I own four years of Jody's videos on dvd. If I had been able to find a video of him welding anodized then I would have watched it.
He is one helluva good instructor and, about a year ago, I found out why.....he used to be the lead welding instructor for Delta Airlines.
I figured out within a couple of weeks of watching welding tips and tricks that no one else was providing instruction on par with this channel. Jody's videos are definitely my first source for instruction but he doesn't offer everything that I'm looking for and, in those cases, I look elsewhere. This was one of those cases.

[exnailpounder]

I think all welders pay attention to welds they see in every day life and I can look at a weld and tell what kind of person made it. You can tell a bored production welder who still has pride from a lazy slug who is pissed off at having to work for a living. At least I entertain myself thinking I know the difference I have seen some self-described "experts" on Youtube and I can't believe they would air their garbage and worse is the people who subscribe to them. The craftsman is a dying breed in todays world, no matter what craft. Lord knows the BS hacks I have endured over the years in the trades but we all have stories like that. Jodys vids got me back in the Tig saddle in short time after a 15 year layoff and after you see the quality of Jody's welding, explanations and welding abilities, it's really hard to take anyone else seriously. My boilermaker/mirror welder buddy looked like a new-born baby when he came over to my shop to use my machine to weld an aluminum part. It was all I could do not to laugh at him. I used to think he was good.

[DLewis0289]

Ok. I own four years of Jody's videos on dvd. If I had been able to find a video of him welding anodized then I would have watched it.
He is one helluva good instructor and, about a year ago, I found out why.....he used to be the lead welding instructor for Delta Airlines.
I figured out within a couple of weeks of watching welding tips and tricks that no one else was providing instruction on par with this channel. Jody's videos are definitely my first source for instruction but he doesn't offer everything that I'm looking for and, in those cases, I look elsewhere. This was one of those cases.

Understand completely, only a fool doesn't use multiple sources. Cops think like this, in the beginning everyone is a liar until all the facts are in.

[RamboBaby]

I'm not sure why this plain ol Bill guy weighed in just to try to bust my balls. I replied to his comment and even pm'ed him with questions but he didn't answer me. Guys like him are a dime a dozen, always looking for someone to try and tear down.
I know that I have a lot to learn but I know that my welds don't totally suck either.

Everyone knows that guy who doesn't accept blame for anything. Well, I'm that guy who doesn't accept negative criticism that's designed to discourage me.

Lately I've been trying to learn to weld with far more amperage on tap than is required to get the job done. This is much easier said than done. I think some of the problem lies in my foot peddle which seems to control amperage in 10% increments rather than smoothly rolling on and off with the power. That may be a bit of an exageration but not by much. Jody doesn't seem to care for the peddles on these Everlast welders either.

Normally I get welds like the first image but I can slow down and get welds like the second image. In the second one I buggered up my tungsten on the start and nearly blew through that 1/8" tubing about 3/4 of the way through welding it.

I can do pretty, I can do quick and dirty, I screw up a lot and I still have a lot to learn. But at the end of the day I am confident that I am becoming a descent weldor.

Would I have a problem selling the first weld to a customer? Hell no! I've seen much worse looking go out the door. That weld looks like rocket science compared to most of the crap welds that I find on these high dollar, professionally built, dirt track jig cars. The level of mig welding on some of those things is truly appaling. I can't believe they get paid to turn out crap like that. Very few of the welds on those cars have any pride behind them and look to have been done by a first grader.

I'm here because I want to get better at the game and I am fully aware that many of you guys know a whole helluva lot more than I do and I want to learn from you.

But, in the end, plain ol Bill can kiss my plain ol Butt.

[DLewis0289]

Lol, you will meet a lot of Bills in the world. The trick is determining when the rubber hits the road. I have worked Union and Non-Union (clarify never a scab) and have met grumpy old guys that were decent stick welders and that was it, that shouldn't impress you. On the other hand find the grumpy old man that really does know his stuff and don't kiss his ass but try and work with him, grind, hold his fit to tack, whatever and if you don't talk his ear off, he will probably warm up to you and show you some things and berate you when you screw up in a positive way.

Not judging, but the usual mentality for a union tradesman is his craft is a guarded secret, he earned it though sweat over four or five years and isn't going to (a) just give it away and (b) put more competition in the pool.

If the ass chewing is positive, learn from it, if the ass chewing is personal, make sure you have bond money and beat his ass after work.

Only two options in this world, handle things or get handled.

[RamboBaby]

I completely agree....except for the ass whoopin after work. That just ain't my style. I've got a tongue like a razor when I want to go that route and know how to put someone in their place. I don't really like doing that.....but I am good at it.
The old boss was was like that. He routinely let everyone know, "I don't accept no blame", and he would blame his mistakes on us. Typical drug addict mentality. But he did introduce me to welding and I'm greatful for that.
I don't really care for unions but I'm not opposed to them if they can help me get to where I want to be. I'm not the guy who is gonna knock anyone for their personal or professional choices either. I've been debating for a while as to whether I should join the boilermaker's union. I don't really like stick welding so that's the reason I haven't tried to sign up yet.
I know that I should probably just bite the bullet and do it but my internal dialogue is still raging a bit too hard at the moment.

[DLewis0289]

If you are young, get in the boilermakers, invaluable training in the apprenticeship program. But be prepared for a sometimes silly indoctrination lol.

Years ago, I fought a fight that I was on both sides of.....I am an electrical guy and a pipe guy. Big fight about fiber optic cable. IBEW claims it, Pipe side claims it. The argument "it is a TUBE that carries light". IBEW lost it, until pipefitters tried it for awhile and ultimately the customers made common sense rule.

[RamboBaby]

I turned 43 in March. My body isn't cut out for heavy labor. I understand that there are many clowns in the pipefitters union who make a boilermaker's job much harder and also that many boilermakers ARE the defacto pipefitter. If it's a job that goes beyond medium duty then it's probably not the job for me. My brother was a worm on oil rigs in North Dakota and he told me that my body couldn't hack that kind of work.
I definitely shy away from a lot of heavy lifting or anything where I have to work in the sun all day.
I can weld a fairly descent gap and do a descent job of it if I really take my time but I always seriously question the structural integrity of a weld when I read about pipe guys talking about having to weld 1/4" gaps due to sorry pipefitting. I have read a lot of that is going on and it would just scare the hell out of me if someone required me to do something like that.
If civilian boilers are anything akin to Naval vessels which carry 900 pound main steam then that sounds like a formula for disaster to me.

[DLewis0289]

I have known quite a few guys that went into the trades in their 40's. When all the factories moved to Mexico a lot of production guys re-trained.

In regard to boilers lol Small packaged fire tube's i.e. CB, Yorks etc. operate around 120-150 psig. At the big show in generation plants (field erected water tube) you can have anywhere from 2000-3500 psig (super critical plants) of superheated steam. But trust me they don't let the run of the mill guys touch that piping, it is the elite with a butt load of engineering monitoring and supervising.

More often than not they are "Shoppy's", still Union guys just really work for one dedicated outfit.

[jroark]

I worked with an old grouch for a while. One of our first conversations went like this, " hey man that's a nice looking weld." He says " what are you, some kinda freaking idiot?" He's been welding for YEARS so a nice compliment meant nothing to him. He taught me a lot though. We also became good friends later on. Sometimes you just gotta prove yourself and figure the old grouch out. They may not be that bad after all.