Thanks
I spend far too much time researching things that I will never be able to use later...all for the purpose of accurately being able to describe something. This time, I'm asking for help from the exsperts. Can someone tell me how this was made, and possibly what kind of metal was used? I'm pretty sure it wasn't soldered, don't know what blazing is and never even witnessed welding... Thanks
Thanks
rankamateur
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I have a friend who used to make things like this. That one may not be made the same way, but here's how he did it.
He'd bend pieces of roundstock into shapes he liked, then braze them together. Later he got into TIG welding them together but that's neither here nor there. Next, he would actually blow the glass inside the roundstock form (we always called it the cage, but there may be someone out there that knows glass/metal art jargon better than myself). When the glass was blown inside the cage, it would partially embed the metal rods, creating the inset appearance.
He'd bend pieces of roundstock into shapes he liked, then braze them together. Later he got into TIG welding them together but that's neither here nor there. Next, he would actually blow the glass inside the roundstock form (we always called it the cage, but there may be someone out there that knows glass/metal art jargon better than myself). When the glass was blown inside the cage, it would partially embed the metal rods, creating the inset appearance.
Thanks for the reply, rankamateur. I just re-read my post, and I really could have been a bit more clear. I guess I was just assuming, this being a forum having to do with welding tips and tricks, that people here would know I was asking about the way the metal rods were joined together. I apologize for the vagueness of my posted question. I just wanted to know what was done to make the metal stick and what kind of metal it might be. That might help give me a clue as to how old this thing is...or not.
Peace and Good Cheers
I see you did mention how your friend brazed pieces together. Is that how it looks like the one in the pic was done? Roundstock? What is that...a kind of metal? Thanks for educating me, this kind of thing is way out of my realm. I do beadwork, but not with that size of wire...rankamateur wrote:I have a friend who used to make things like this. That one may not be made the same way, but here's how he did it.
He'd bend pieces of roundstock into shapes he liked, then braze them together.
Peace and Good Cheers
- Otto Nobedder
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"Roundstock" refers to the shape of the metal--It's round. There appears to be some surface rust, so I suppose it's mild steel. While there's nothing familiar in the picture to give me perspective, I'd guess that may be #9 wire, commonly used in construction and inexpensive. (The wire appears to be drawn, as opposed to wrought, so it's post industrial revolution.) The lack of major rusting suggests the wire may have been enameled after forming and joining.
The heat-affected zone shows on the joint in the center, and looks to me like a torch was used, possibly a blowpipe if it's quite old. I also don't see rust in the bits of the filler metal that show, so I'm guessing brazing or silver-solder was used. The color of the glass makes it hard to tell which, but with it in your hands you'll be able to spot the difference. A yellow color means brazing; Gray means silver.
I doubt it would be lead/tin solder like stained glass artists use, as blowing hot glass against the joints would likely melt it.
Edit--
To my surprise, according to an article in the 1911 Encyclopedia Brittanica, wire drawing first appeared in the 14th century, and reached England in the last half of the 17th century, so the fact that the wire appears drawn does little to help date it.
Steve
The heat-affected zone shows on the joint in the center, and looks to me like a torch was used, possibly a blowpipe if it's quite old. I also don't see rust in the bits of the filler metal that show, so I'm guessing brazing or silver-solder was used. The color of the glass makes it hard to tell which, but with it in your hands you'll be able to spot the difference. A yellow color means brazing; Gray means silver.
I doubt it would be lead/tin solder like stained glass artists use, as blowing hot glass against the joints would likely melt it.
Edit--
To my surprise, according to an article in the 1911 Encyclopedia Brittanica, wire drawing first appeared in the 14th century, and reached England in the last half of the 17th century, so the fact that the wire appears drawn does little to help date it.
Steve
rankamateur
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I just did some additional peeking around. Apparently, most glasses melt at 1500-2700 degrees, 4500 for some oddball applications. I looked into silver/bronze solder and found that most solders melt below 450 degrees, and any applications where you are melting above 450 are considered brazing, so I guess no matter what method of attachment was used, it would technically be brazed. If I had to guess, I would guess once the pieces were formed, they were joined with a steel brazing rod, as a tin melts at about 450, and from what I've found, all but the very best silver solders contain tin to make it flow.
If you're looking to date the piece, from my limited experience, you are often better off going by dating the glass. Brazing has been around a long, long time and other than methods of heating the material, has not changed overly much over the years, from what I have seen. I may be mistaken, I must admit we did some brazing in high school and I haven't lit a welding nozzle for my torch since. Glass is often easily dated by people who know their antiques. They can look a the coloring, the thickness, how it flowed while forming and the location, size and quantity of bubbles and often tell about when, where, how, and in very special cases who created the piece.
Not to go too far off on a tangent, but the glass experts amaze me. In high school, one of our history teachers was involved with excavating a pioneer cabin in Missouri, and we could go and help for extra credit on weekends. Being a young man that did not like homework, I often found myself digging around this cabin weekends. He took glass fixtures and containers to this guy who could tell him how old they were, how they were formed, where they were formed, and in cases of fixtures, he would often be able to guess the name of the tradesman who did it. Some of this guy's analyses seemed off, we had a glass decanter he placed as 17th century French from a certain village during a eight year period, but when we sent it for assessment at the local college, they agreed 100%, we'd found an family heirloom. I wish welding were a skilled/niche trade where four hundred years from now an expert would look at my work and say "Well, this looks like work by Joe Blow in Kalamazoo around 2009"!
If you're looking to date the piece, from my limited experience, you are often better off going by dating the glass. Brazing has been around a long, long time and other than methods of heating the material, has not changed overly much over the years, from what I have seen. I may be mistaken, I must admit we did some brazing in high school and I haven't lit a welding nozzle for my torch since. Glass is often easily dated by people who know their antiques. They can look a the coloring, the thickness, how it flowed while forming and the location, size and quantity of bubbles and often tell about when, where, how, and in very special cases who created the piece.
Not to go too far off on a tangent, but the glass experts amaze me. In high school, one of our history teachers was involved with excavating a pioneer cabin in Missouri, and we could go and help for extra credit on weekends. Being a young man that did not like homework, I often found myself digging around this cabin weekends. He took glass fixtures and containers to this guy who could tell him how old they were, how they were formed, where they were formed, and in cases of fixtures, he would often be able to guess the name of the tradesman who did it. Some of this guy's analyses seemed off, we had a glass decanter he placed as 17th century French from a certain village during a eight year period, but when we sent it for assessment at the local college, they agreed 100%, we'd found an family heirloom. I wish welding were a skilled/niche trade where four hundred years from now an expert would look at my work and say "Well, this looks like work by Joe Blow in Kalamazoo around 2009"!
Thank you so much, Steve and rankamateur, for your your input. What you have described goes hand in hand with my guess as to when this unusual piece was crafted. The filler is gray in color, the size of the 'roundstock' is 2mm and the amber glass is pre-depression. The maker of this glass chimeny would be as proud today, as he was when he designed it, to know there are people who have great desire to own such a thing! Even having a name for such things, (givin it was made in America) known as AAFA. Antique American Folk Art.
Thanks to everyone
Peace and Good Cheers
PS...I just love learning new things!
Thanks to everyone
Peace and Good Cheers
PS...I just love learning new things!
- Otto Nobedder
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Rankameteur,
Your "tangent" gave me a bit of a flashback. I grew up in the middle of nowhere in southern MO, and there were three abandoned homesteads, a general store, and the ruins of a gristmill within walking distance. I spent a lot of time exploring these as a kid. If I'd understood the value of the things I found, I'd have a trunk full of relics from them.
Where was this pioneer cabin you helped dig?
Steve
Your "tangent" gave me a bit of a flashback. I grew up in the middle of nowhere in southern MO, and there were three abandoned homesteads, a general store, and the ruins of a gristmill within walking distance. I spent a lot of time exploring these as a kid. If I'd understood the value of the things I found, I'd have a trunk full of relics from them.
Where was this pioneer cabin you helped dig?
Steve
rankamateur
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It was out by Warrensburg. We were from the Kansas City area. I believe a friend or family of the teacher owned the property so he and some other teachers would take groups of kids out every weekend to show us how archeology worked and show us the sort of conclusions you could come to from a rubbish heap or old barn. It was a great project, at the time it seemed interesting, but now thinking of how much time, effort, and personal resources these teachers must have put into the project for the sake of their students leaves me in awe.
- Otto Nobedder
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I have to agree. At the time, the things I really enjoyed in school I was absorbing selfishly. Only now, looking back, do I realize the effort, interest, and personal time that many of my teachers put into their craft. As much as I enjoy what I do, I have a hard time comprehending the passion it takes to do what some of our teachers did. (Especially when I consider what a complete jerk I must have been!)
Steve
Steve