[mikeh]

anyone seen this Multiplaz unit. It's claims to plasma cut, weld and braise using tap water and alcohol mix to generate the plasma arc field and shield weld. The unit is really compact and runs on 110. U-tube video of welds look sketchy but overall it seems to have potential. I'm looking for feedback from anyone that's used one.
http://www.multiplaz.com/video

[nickn372]

I've seen pictures and videos of this thing before and it sounds too good to be true... so it probably is. I had an instructor in tech school tell me one time "...multiple use tools like crescent wrenches and channel locks are great but keep in mind something that will do everything will not do anything right...". Ok its probably not an exact quote but you get my drift. I know there are some good machines out there that claim to do multiple functions and some do them well (watch Jody's videos on the Everlast welder) but I am not one for something like this so I will stay away from it.

[WerkSpace]

I've used the MultiPlaz welder in TIG mode. It's very different from any other type of welder that I have used. The blue arc is very narrow, while the water/alcohol provides a yellow flame shield gas. I've tested this welder on some old rusty mild steel and was very surprised at how well it welded. I did not bevel the metal prior to welding and the torch provided a very clean looking weld without any pits. The only odd thing that I noticed was that the weld beads appeared to have what I call 'straw broom' marks. I don't know how to describe this in any other way. The weld was definitely a good strong weld. I am considering to purchase one of these welders but I have concerns about using a torch like this in a production environment. It was a bit of trouble to get it started and it only lasted 20 minutes before it needed to be refilled. My friend owns this MultiPlaz welder and he told me that it was time to change the consumables. Either way, I did notice that this torch produces very little fumes and would be very suitable for an enclosed area.

In the meantime, I have ordered the Everlast PowerPro205 multi-function welder. TIG, Stick and Plasma cutter combo.

I also own the Millermatic 210 Mig welder with the optional spool gun, the Lincoln AC 225 buzz box welder, the Lincoln V-100-S Invertec with WP200 TIG torch, the Henrob gas torch, the Meco Midget gas torch and a Victor gas torch. I like the Henrob gas torch the best, also called DHC Dillon/Henrob/Cobra.

[Otto Nobedder]

I'm going to need to see a whole bunch of VERIFIABLE tests, theoretical explanations, and more VERIFIABLE tests before I buy in to this BULLSHIT. I've seen what water vapor does to a TIG arc.

It appears two spammers are conversing with each other.

[Otto Nobedder]

Sorry,

It's ONE spammer posting under different identities.

I hope nobody clicked the link, and if you did I hope you have pennicillin.

[WerkSpace]

I'm going to need to see a whole bunch of VERIFIABLE tests, theoretical explanations, and more VERIFIABLE tests before I buy in to this BULLSHIT. I've seen what water vapor does to a TIG arc.

It appears two spammers are conversing with each other.

Otto, unless you have actually tried a MultiPlaz welder, you will never learn the truth. I merely answered the question that was asked and gave my honest opinion of what I thought of the welder. I have used many different types of welders and was very surprised at the results.

I've emailed Jody to ask that he review this welder as there's a lot of controversy over whether it works, how does it work, is it practical, etc.

I am in no way affiliated with MultiPlaz and I do not own one. However, my friend bought one and I have tested it, out of my own curiosity.

If you want to bully or badger anyone who offers their opinions, then by all means, go right ahead and do so. I respect your opinion regardless of whether you have tried the welder or not. Here are a few web links that will help to describe the product that is so controversial.

http://www.multiplaz.com/about

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9HAGjR1IIU

[Otto Nobedder]

I just watched the You-tube vid you posted.

You either have a personal interest in the sale of this product, or you are deranged.

Peddle your bullshit somewhere else... For what they are asking on that "infomercial" with the housewives, I could buy a good used high-end machine for each function it "claims".

I watched with amusement the "TIG" portion of the video. I'd like to see that spatter-filled mess pass x-ray.

Steve

[WerkSpace]

Steve, I guess that you win!

A new poster to this forum gets greeted by being called a spammer and a bullshitter.
You take the Grand Prize! Have a great day!
BTW - I've ordered my MultiPlaz just a few moments ago.

Thank you for the inspirational conversation. I have a great respect for the Swiss.
They give awards to people who actually make a difference in this world.

http://www.grit.com/blogs/blog.aspx?blo ... =Multiplaz

[weldin mike 27]

Hi,

Now, now, gents. Theres plenty of room for everyone opinions here. Id say that this is one of those topics that can led to a lot of heated back and forth so probably should be be put to bed. lest anyone go too far. As for the ol' multiplaz, if you use it and like it, good for you. If not, leave it for the others. Different strokes for different folks.

Lets get back to normal tomorrow eh?

Mick

[Otto Nobedder]

I will reserve any apology I may offer until I've looked a bit harder at the product in question. I must point out that when someone's first posts on a forum are marketing a product completely outside the "known", without any supporting backgound for the experience of the poster (you referred to TIG mode... It doesn't have one. Plasma-arc is not TIG), and the supporting evidence includes a "housewife infomercial" video from YouTube, my BS alarm goes off.

Frankly, I was surprised to find a real person at the other end of the conversation after all the spam-bot marketing we've seen.

Steve

[Otto Nobedder]

Ya' know,

When you're right, you're right.

I re-read what I posted. Since I began with the assumption of spam, I was an ass.

Without knowledge of the poster, or of the product, I had no business being defamatory or writing in such a negative manner.
I'm sorry for that.

I'm still not convinced on the Multiplaz, but I've not had time to research it thoroughly.

Steve

[Otto Nobedder]

My first fully considered opinion:

That article in "GRIT" is pure bunk. There is no acetylene shortage, and never was. There may be a dent in the supply of carbide pellets, but any price increases claimed by AirGas due to this haven't affected me. It appears, on the surface, that AirGas is pushing a switch to propylene.

The first rule of marketing is to find a problem to solve. They seem to have done that by grossly exaggerating a small but tragic incident.

If there actually were an acetylene shortage, LNG/oxy and LP/oxy torches work beautifully, with the downside being portability. A similar capacity mobile tank of LNG or LP will be larger than a bottle of dissolved acetylene.

This does not reflect an opinion of the performance of the Multiplaz, but rather on their use of a tragedy (two dead) to make a case for their product.

WerkSpace, I'd love to hear you name some of those awards the Swiss give. I'm at a bit of a loss there.

Steve

[WerkSpace]

Steve, you will have to try the welder like I did. http://www.multiplaz.cn/USA/feedback.asp
http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/978379/ ... stributors

I never knew anything about this technology until a few months ago, when my friend showed it to me. He has since manufactured a homebuilt electric skidsteer with plow and bucket for doing garden work and clearing snow from his driveway. The skidsteer motors are from electric wheel chairs and the tracks are from snowmobiles but cut in half lengthwise.

My MultiPlaz will arrive on Wednesday. When I get some time on the machine, I can answer more questions. Until then, I only know what I have personally experienced and what I read on the internet. I'm satisfied enough with the welder that I decided to purchase my own, despite having several other welders onsite. My Everlast PowerPro 205 should arrive on Thursday or Friday, so I have yet another welder to test.

The MultiPlaz is a very unusual welder. It operates on electricity, water and alcohol. It produces very little fumes. It makes a very strong weld. It's light weight and portable. It does not use an air compressor or compressed gas cylinders for any of its processes. You are not forever grinding tungsten tips because it does not use them. It needs refilling in about 20 minutes. It can auto-refill by putting the hot nozzle into the alcohol/water solution.

I don't sell the product, so you are on your own trying to find a distributor in your area.

I do understand your mistrust and skeptism. The Hobart forum completely erased my posts, just for answering another poster's question. I had no idea that people would be so sensitive to a new way of doing things. This product has only been introduced into North America since January of 2011.

Each type of welder, that I own, is very good at doing certain things. For instance, I prefer to oxy-acetylene weld aluminum with my Henrob torch. It does a great job and it's my first choice. If I'm in a hurry to weld some light structural material, I reach for my Millermatic 210 Mig. It has all of the settings on the inside of the lid, so getting it right is a snap. If I'm welding something very small or ornamental, I prefer my Meco Midget gas torch. For anyone wanting to learn Tig welding, my advice is to learn how to gas weld first. Tig welding is really easy once you have some time on a gas torch first. I honestly can't tell you much about the MultiPlaz except that I have tried it at a friend's house and I liked it for the various reasons as stated above. It's light weight and portable and can be handy to leave in my Cummins diesel truck. BTW - If you really want to start a debate, I will tell you right now, nothing beats a Cummins diesel.

As for my projects, I have way too many... I'm restoring a 1934 Chevy Sedan in the garage. I'm building a Sevtec Vanguard hovercraft in the back yard. I'm also scratch building a Zenair CH701 experimental aircraft in my basement. I work for the airlines and have too much money and a lot of spare time on my hands.

[Otto Nobedder]

Okay,

Now, I'm impressed. Very few people now are even aware that Al can be oxy-fuel welded, despite the fact that their grandmothers did it to build fuel tanks in WWII. Even fewer can actually do it.

I have argued (and posted here on another topic) that learning oxy-fuel welding should be first for anyone who actually wants to make a career of welding. There's no slag, as with SMAW, so you know what a puddle looks like and how it behaves, and the process happens in slow-motion compared to GTAW, making both processes come more naturally later.

Zenair makes a fine kit, and top-notch plans. My interest, however, is in a true Part 103 ultralight. To that end, I have plans for two; Roger Mann's "Ragwing" RW-6 parasol, a wood-and-fabric design, and another tube-and-fabric design I won't name, as I have only a faximile of the plans, given to me for study and review by a friend. Should I choose to build it, I'm obligated to pay for originals, of course.

I should have known when I felt the need to challenge you that we already had common ground.

Steve

[Otto Nobedder]

So, WerkSpace,

Do you have a review to post yet on your new Multiplaz?

And how's the construction going on the Zenair?

Steve

[WerkSpace]

So, WerkSpace,

Do you have a review to post yet on your new Multiplaz?

And how's the construction going on the Zenair?

Steve

Steve,

I'm still waiting on a NEMA 14-50 Range connector for both welders. With the pigtail they are $20 at any hardware store, but without the pigtail they are only available for $60+ at the electrical suppliers. So, Internet is your friend and they are on the way from the good old USA for $10 each. In the meantime, I had to go to work for a living but will be off for 15 days starting on the weekend. I work 12hr shifts, so not much time for welding and its getting a little bit hot around here, so I wouldn't mind waiting for a cooler day.

So, what I have done is taken apart one of the two torches that come with the MultiPlaz inverter. Both torches are identical except that the one marked cutter only uses water and electricity while the other one for welding uses water, alcohol and electricity. The other difference is the depth that you set the cathode which is done with the multi-featured alignment tool.

This welder is a very different animal from anything that I have ever used before. But it has that certain cool factor about it that I just had to have one for myself instead of bugging my friend to use his all the time. It will be a learning process for sure.

The basics of the torch is that there is a reservoir that holds 3 ounces of your favorite beverage. EverClear works great but I thought that I would save a few bucks and just use 99% Isopropyl alcohol from the pharmacy. The 3 ounces of fluid will give you 20 minutes of weld or cut time.

Next up, is the knob at the back of the torch which has a 10 turn adjustment that is used to set the voltage by moving the cathode towards or away from the copper nozzle. The amperage is set by selecting one of six positions on the inverter.

There are two modes to this inverter, Mode 1 for gas type welding and Mode 2 for adding an arc to the gas type welding. Oxy/Acetylene reaches 6,000 degrees while this torch reaches 14,400 degrees so things can get hot really fast. Mode 1 is normally set to position 2 when using the additional arc from Mode 2. Confused yet?

So, the cathode is made of copper and has a special rod inside of it that is made from Hafnium. (look up control rods for nuclear reactors and you will find Hafnium) The cathode is attached to a rod that connects it to the voltage adjustment knob at the back of the torch as discussed above. This cathode and rod sit inside a quartz glass tube which sit inside of a large copper tube which has a spring on it, in order to maintain a good contact with the copper nozzle which is held in place by a threaded stainless steel nozzle holder.

So, from what I gather so far, the system works like this. To start using the torch, you must turn on the inverter which defaults to Mode 1 position 4. Then, you press the knob at the back of the torch and it manually moves the Hafnium cathode forward to make contact with the copper nozzle. An internal arc will form between the cathode and the nozzle. You slowly release the knob at the back of the torch and then turn the knob while monitoring the inverter for the correct voltage that is desired. The manual has lots of details of the various inverter settings for the different welding and cutting operations.

Like I stated above, Mode 1 appears to be for normal gas type welding, brazing, soldering, etc. Mode 1 is set to position 2 when Mode 2 is added to create an external arc to the workpiece. I have a new micro camcorder and will try to post some youtube videos when I get everything up and running. The connectors are on their way here but Customs Canada likes to inspect everything coming across the border, so who knows when they will get here. I ordered them thru Amazon.com so it shouldn't be too bad. In the meantime, I might splice in a pigtail cord to have some fun on the weekend.

Here are a few photos of the disassembled MultiPlaz torch. I can't take apart the inverter because of a warranty sticker.

[Otto Nobedder]

What I've just read on Hafnium tells me that electrode is something you don't want to replace very often!

I'm also surprised at the size of the cable going to the gun in your picture, although I suppose it's similar in size to the ground cable on an ordinary 90A plasma cutter.

I'm anxious to hear a real-world appraisal of this, as, by nature, I'm still skeptical. (I am from the "Show-Me State, after all. )

Steve

[WerkSpace]

So, WerkSpace,

Do you have a review to post yet on your new Multiplaz?

And how's the construction going on the Zenair?

Steve

Steve,

the CH701 will take a few years to put together. I am building it from scratch. (Sheet metal and rivets.) I'm forming all of the parts myself. I bought a Continental 85hp from a friend who wanted to upgrade his Cessna to the O-200 (100hp). Certified aircraft have so many rules.

I'm going to register my aircraft as a Basic Ultralight in Canada which allows an all up weight of 1200lbs including passengers and fuel. No inspections whatsoever and I can do whatever I want with it. I like that. The downside is that I have to stay out of everyone's airspace but I can live with that.

I'm putting the folding wing option on mine and Tundra tires. This plane gets off the ground in 80 feet and lands in 100 feet. I might even attempt to turbo the Continental but I'll decide that much later on.

My plane will be on a trailer and stored at my house. No hangar fees, minimal insurance and when it gets in trouble, I just set it down, fold up the wings, throw a tarp over it and find my way back to get the truck and trailer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1dBpAtDlz8

[WerkSpace]

What I've just read on Hafnium tells me that electrode is something you don't want to replace very often!

I'm also surprised at the size of the cable going to the gun in your picture, although I suppose it's similar in size to the ground cable on an ordinary 90A plasma cutter.

I'm anxious to hear a real-world appraisal of this, as, by nature, I'm still skeptical. (I am from the "Show-Me State, after all. )

Steve

I'm just as skeptical as you are but so far I'm impressed enough to buy one.
In the overall scheme of things, I love trying out new technology.
The Hafnium cathodes are $6.25 each and spare nozzles are $6.50 each.
http://www.ecowelder.com/buy-online#!__ ... onsumables

[Otto Nobedder]

At that price, those Hafnium electrodes must be an alloy, like 2% Thoriated Tungsten, since it seems to be a fairly rare element.

I've read several reviews of the CH701 in EAA Experimeter. It gets top marks in all categories in the articles I've read. I envy the Canadian regulations for ultrlight/microlight.

A straight plans-only build can take several years, depending on your free time, but I'd enjoy updates on your progress... A little vicarious building for me.

Steve

[WerkSpace]

I found this video of the MultiPlaz torch today.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zH-0XaqI_Ho

Remember it's using only water and electricity to achieve this.
There's no air compressor or gas cylinders being used here.

It's not the fastest cut that I've ever seen but it works fairly well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0S-M9cLHUhc

Here's a video of the MultiPlaz cutting a ceramic tile.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhKuJLG81rA

This technology is new and most likely has lots of limitations
but I'm glad that I bought one for messing around with.
http://www.multiplaz.net/english/UserMa ... e=00020001

[Otto Nobedder]

Just for clarification, I had a rather long talk with my welding gas supplier today.

The "acetylene shortage" that article you referred me to mentioned is, as I suggested, completely bogus. I don't care if this machine will fart diamonds and massage my back, the use of outright lies, particularly a story where lives were actually lost, to market their product, turns my stomach.

OTOH, the price of Helium is going nowhere but up. a 295CF Tri-mix bottle was $98 USD today. (The 325CF bottle of 75/25 was $21 USD.) If that jackass in the White House doesn't get a grip and allow some natural gas drilling, we're going to be in a bind for Helium within 2-3 years.

Steve

[WerkSpace]

Steve, I'm looking at things from a totally different angle. ...and this is why I like to diversify. Just like not putting all your eggs in one basket.

I went to my gas suppliers in Canada, looking to purchase a bottle of Argon for my new Everlast Power Pro 205 and was told that I could only buy the small tank. (This was at Praxair.) So, I told Praxair that I was able to buy a larger tank of Argon/CO2 at Weldco for my Millermatic 210 Mig welder, so off I went to Weldco. Weldco didn't have any large Argon tanks, so I couldn't get any. They told me that they were on their way here on a slow boat from China.

This bothered me quite a bit, because what would happen if I had a rush job and no Argon. Currently, I only own the small tank of Argon that I use for my Lincoln V100-S Invertec DC Tig welder. So, this either forces me to lease tanks or wait. Not a very good way to run a business? I don't like leasing anything...

So, when push comes to shove, and compressed gases get harder and harder to acquire, I will be learning how to use a new technology that runs on water, alcohol and electricity. I am able to produce these products locally and not wait for a slow boat from China.
(Yes, I do own my own still. It is electric and I use it for making clean drinking water.)

[WerkSpace]

Just for clarification, I had a rather long talk with my welding gas supplier today.

The "acetylene shortage" that article you referred me to mentioned is, as I suggested, completely bogus. I don't care if this machine will fart diamonds and massage my back, the use of outright lies, particularly a story where lives were actually lost, to market their product, turns my stomach.

OTOH, the price of Helium is going nowhere but up. a 295CF Tri-mix bottle was $98 USD today. (The 325CF bottle of 75/25 was $21 USD.) If that jackass in the White House doesn't get a grip and allow some natural gas drilling, we're going to be in a bind for Helium within 2-3 years.

Steve

Steve, If someone who tells you lies, turns your stomach so much, DON'T EVER VOTE FOR ANYONE IN POLITICS.

[Otto Nobedder]

So THAT'S why I'm always nauseous when I step in the voting booth!