[Braehill]

Can any of the experts here tell me which one of these wires in a 220Volt hook up is the neutral, is it L1, L2 or the ground. I'm color blind so please don't tell me what color it should be. If your hooking up three phase which one is neutral, L1, L2, L3, or the ground.

I don't claim to be an expert, but I've never seen a neutral being used here in the US for anything other than 120V.

I don't understand all the different three phase hook ups ,but I've heard that 277v hooks one of the load lines to ground but I've personally never worked on anything wired for 277v.

Len

[hey_allen]

When building equipment at my work, L1 is always hot, and L2 and L3 may be as well, if working on 3-phase (which should have 4 or 5 pins on the connector.)

If you are working with US code 120vac, L1 is hot, L2 is neutral, and the third wire should be ground. (Black, White, Green or bare copper, in that order, just to give the colors to go along.)

When working on US code 220vac, L1 and L2 are both hot, the third wire should be neutral, and you MAY have a fourth wire as a separate ground. (Black, Black or Red, White, Green or bare copper)

If it is a 4 wire 220, L1 and L2 are hot, L3 is neutral, and GND is ground.

For CE spec, the colors change, and 220 is Line, neutral, ground, (L1, L2, GND: Brown, Blue, Green with yellow stripe) since the power grid in Europe is setup with a single leg at 220V, as opposed to the US standard of a pair of 110v(or 120v) legs that are 180 degrees out of phase.

[TRACKRANGER]

I sent a text out to a licensed electrical contractor I know asking if its ok to do what I'm asking you guys, his reply was yes. After that I also searched about neutral and ground bonding at the panel and found that neutrals can land on the ground bar and vise versa, because both bars are tied together anyway. So in that case I don't see how doing what I'm asking about would be an issue?

If your licensed electrical contractor said you could do that, get him to come and wire it like that and sign-off on the paperwork.

Neutral and ground are at the same potential when everything is working fine. But if there is a fault and the two become disconnected, neutral is no longer ground. It is live. So is the chassis of your welder.

If Neutral could be used as an Earth, why do they bother installing an Earth as well? Seems a waste doesn't it.

To be honest, I don't know why you ask for assistance and then continually challenge it without knowing why.

[Otto Nobedder]

Out on your pole, where your transformer and meter and main disconnect sit,

Your overhead line neutral is bonded to earth ground. On the pole before your transformer. And at your meter. And at your main disconnect, if you have one. And at your breaker box, if it meets code. You have no shortage of earth paths in a modern home.

If you lack confidence in this, do what we do as industrial electricians grounding permanent installations. (Key word... Permanent, as in not run temporarily from an extension cord like your welder.) Bond your machine to an earthed column, in a steel building (that's up to code), or drive a friggin' ground rod to code depth and bond to it.

If you still don't understand, hire a pro. It's cheaper than hiring an amateur.

Steve S

[Otto Nobedder]

Hey, TRACKRANGER,

If yamahablue is in the U.S.,

He does not need a licensed anybody to build an extension cord from his dryer outlet to his welder.

I agree that he should not attempt if he doesn't understand, but no rule here prevents him.

Steve S

[TRACKRANGER]

Hey, TRACKRANGER,

If yamahablue is in the U.S.,

He does not need a licensed anybody to build an extension cord from his dryer outlet to his welder.

I agree that he should not attempt if he doesn't understand, but no rule here prevents him.

Steve S

I agree Steve. Its not the extension lead that worries me, it's the use of a Neutral conductor to Earth his welder. That's my only concern.
Best
Trev

[Braehill]

Here in the US it's only been a short while ago that you are required in a residence to have a neutral wire even present in a 220v circuit. He said from the OP that he had a 3 wire dryer outlet that would suggest that there is no neutral involved. It would have 2 load lines and a ground.

If his welder only requires three wires then there also are no neutral wires involved. If the welder has 4 wires coming from it, pull the panel and see which one is going to ground and use it on the ground terminal of the plug. Modern dryers and ranges are wired with a neutral to accommodate the 110v timers and motors and such and use the neutral path back to the transformer.

In any event, trip the breaker and pull the cover off of the outlet and see how many wires are coming in. If it's only three, then all this neutral scare is for not. If it's 4, then check to make sure the ground is going to the ground buss in the panel and not to the neutral buss and you're golden. Or better yet, make sure the third wire is going to the ground buss no matter how many wires are present.

Len

[Bill Beauregard]

Here in the US it's only been a short while ago that you are required in a residence to have a neutral wire even present in a 220v circuit. He said from the OP that he had a 3 wire dryer outlet that would suggest that there is no neutral involved. It would have 2 load lines and a ground.

If his welder only requires three wires then there also are no neutral wires involved. If the welder has 4 wires coming from it, pull the panel and see which one is going to ground and use it on the ground terminal of the plug. Modern dryers and ranges are wired with a neutral to accommodate the 110v timers and motors and such and use the neutral path back to the transformer.

In any event, trip the breaker and pull the cover off of the outlet and see how many wires are coming in. If it's only three, then all this neutral scare is for not. If it's 4, then check to make sure the ground is going to the ground buss in the panel and not to the neutral buss and you're golden. Or better yet, make sure the third wire is going to the ground buss no matter how many wires are present.

Len

All of my life dryers have required a neutral conductor. At one time If it originated from service equipment, that neutral was alowed to double as a ground. Neutrals carry load Each half cycle, (50% of the time) the neutral is the power source for the 120 volt motor driving the drum. As AC current reverses flow, half the time the neutral supplies the power for 120 volt loads. As neutral and ground bond at one point in the service disconnect, logic was that one conductor could serve both purposes. Under some circumstances, this led to electric shock. In others, it led to arcing. A greater problem was that many people misunderstood the specific conditions where it was OK, and did it anywhere. This led to a fire hazard.
Dryers do need a neutral with both three wire installations, and four. Welders do not need a neutral.