Welding Tips and Tricks

Hi everyone,

I was hoping to see if anyone had an idea or two on how I could power my Lincoln Electric 175HD welder in a garage that is not wired for 220 yet. I will be using a welder to patch a lower quarter panel by tach welding a small replacement sheet. So lots of small tach welds and cooling.

My father in law suggested a generator which I actually have but not sure if the power requirements exceed my generators rating. My generator running rate is 3850 watts and 4850 surge. My welder is a Lincoln Electric 175hd. I have attached its specs from the manual. Not 100% sure how to read its requirements.

My power box is a good 70 feet from the garage and I have no 220 socket currently.

You dont have a 220 outlet, assuming you have 110 there? If so, you can make a 220 temp. I have the Lincoln 180, and 50A breaker is way more than you need, especially if only doing tacks. Meant to ask - is there a breaker box?

Your welders name plate says it uses max of 22 amps @ 208 volts. If you use ohms law that calculates up to a max watts of 4576. That would be if you were running it set to the max. Your generator should be more than enough. You will probably notice your starts will be a little rougher on the generator unless it has a fixed throttle that you can ramp up before you start to weld.

You need a minimum of 15,000 watts generator. The arc strike is of most concern, but for more read here: http://m.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/supp ... etail.aspx

When i was looking to run a generator i had an 8,000 I was sure would do, but it wasn’t enough and I read that page and found out why. The math in this thread is incorrect.

I've tried running transformer based 120 volt mig welders off underpowered generator before - it didn't work very well.

I tried a century 130 amp mig on a 5000/6250 watt old generac. Because I only used one side of the generator on 120v I was limited to 20 amp draw. Which should have been plenty.

The inrush current was so high for each arc initiation that the motor would momentarily bog, then gradually the arc would stabilize.

If I had used a 240 volt mig like yours, I believe it would have worked better with balanced load drawing from both sides. But I still think the arc initiation issue may have remained.

You may have enough for your low amp welds, only testing it will let you know for sure.

When I tested 240v inverter stick welders on the same generator, that worked really well.

Poland308 wrote:Your welders name plate says it uses max of 22 amps @ 208 volts. If you use ohms law that calculates up to a max watts of 4576. That would be if you were running it set to the max.

I don't think this is accurate. It lists the max running amperage of 22 Amps, but is fused by a 50 amp breaker. It's 50 for a reason. So you need to redo the math because when a transformer initiates an arc, the load spikes. Once the arc is stabilized, then you're pulling the max running amperage. By my math, he'd need double the capacity that you can up with.

One1 wrote:You need a minimum of 15,000 watts generator. The arc strike is of most concern, but for more read here: http://m.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/supp ... etail.aspx

When i was looking to run a generator i had an 8,000 I was sure would do, but it wasn’t enough and I read that page and found out why. The math in this thread is incorrect.

I don't think the math supports 15,000 either. Closer to a 10K or 12K. Yeah, a 15 would certainly do it. But since he is going to be tacking, probably pretty small wire, He might just make it with an 8,000.

Time to blast down to Harbor Freight and get you a small, cheap 120v MIG. Or, if you do have a sub panel in the garage, temporarily wire a 220v plug in and rock on with your 175D

If you don’t like your welder you can run it on as little as you can get an arc with. We used to melt power supply transformers in audio amps by under supplying input current. Everytime the output load spiked the transformer heat immediately doubled. You’d be fortunate to get a 10% duty cycle. Hence why you need 15K to run on. Just because it welds doesn’t mean it will for long. That’s why in the OP chart as the voltage goes down, the amperage goes up. Ohms law wins every time. If you can’t support the current demand the pie chart is going to start moving against you.

I’ve run a miller 280 cst off of a 5000 max wats generator. Was stick welding and tig welding at about 130-150. for most of a week. I’ve run the little 150 stl off the same generator.

Input amps is stated as 20-22. The size of the plug is unimportant. The breaker is sized to protect the wire.

Poland308 wrote:I’ve run a miller 280 cst off of a 5000 max wats generator. Was stick welding and tig welding at about 130-150. for most of a week. I’ve run the little 150 stl off the same generator.

Input amps is stated as 20-22. The size of the plug is unimportant. The breaker is sized to protect the wire.

Inverters sure run nice off generators in comparison to transformer welders.

The little maxstar 150s I had ran great off a 5000 watt genny.

I believe I mentioned the likelihood of hard starts, and the need to be able to keep the engine ramped up.

ljdm1956 wrote:You dont have a 220 outlet, assuming you have 110 there? If so, you can make a 220 temp. I have the Lincoln 180, and 50A breaker is way more than you need, especially if only doing tacks. Meant to ask - is there a breaker box?

My place has 200 amp service (So I have 2 poles of juice). I have no power running the garage right now. I am in the middle of construction but had to put my truck in there because its winter here to work on some major brake issues. So I have an extension cord powering my lights and another one powering my compressor temporarily.

I just realized that I do have a 50 amp double pole breaker in the box and it use to power something in the kitchen assume a heavy duty electric stove or the water heater. So technically if I could figure out what gauge of wire I need I could run a some romex to the garage. I could even run a long extension cord if I reconnect the 220 socket.

One1 wrote:You need a minimum of 15,000 watts generator. The arc strike is of most concern, but for more read here: http://m.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/supp ... etail.aspx

When i was looking to run a generator i had an 8,000 I was sure would do, but it wasn’t enough and I read that page and found out why. The math in this thread is incorrect.

This is what I am thinking, that my generator isn't going to have enough juice. The Lincoln Tech specs are vague. Even though I will just be tack welding still unclear.

Poland308 wrote:Your welders name plate says it uses max of 22 amps @ 208 volts. If you use ohms law that calculates up to a max watts of 4576. That would be if you were running it set to the max. Your generator should be more than enough. You will probably notice your starts will be a little rougher on the generator unless it has a fixed throttle that you can ramp up before you start to weld.

Poland did you get that 22 amps @ 208 volts from the little chart I posted? I am in the US and I don't get why its showing 2 sets of numbers. For example 230v and 208v in the input part of the chart.

MinnesotaDave wrote:I've tried running transformer based 120 volt mig welders off underpowered generator before - it didn't work very well.

I tried a century 130 amp mig on a 5000/6250 watt old generac. Because I only used one side of the generator on 120v I was limited to 20 amp draw. Which should have been plenty.

The inrush current was so high for each arc initiation that the motor would momentarily bog, then gradually the arc would stabilize.

If I had used a 240 volt mig like yours, I believe it would have worked better with balanced load drawing from both sides. But I still think the arc initiation issue may have remained.

You may have enough for your low amp welds, only testing it will let you know for sure.

When I tested 240v inverter stick welders on the same generator, that worked really well.

That's interesting but only way to tell would be to give it a try I guess. So if I am tack welding, the arc initiation still could be an issue? from what everyone has mention the start is always the part that draws hard on the electrical.

cj737 wrote:

Poland308 wrote:Your welders name plate says it uses max of 22 amps @ 208 volts. If you use ohms law that calculates up to a max watts of 4576. That would be if you were running it set to the max.

I don't think this is accurate. It lists the max running amperage of 22 Amps, but is fused by a 50 amp breaker. It's 50 for a reason. So you need to redo the math because when a transformer initiates an arc, the load spikes. Once the arc is stabilized, then you're pulling the max running amperage. By my math, he'd need double the capacity that you can up with.

Time to blast down to Harbor Freight and get you a small, cheap 120v MIG. Or, if you do have a sub panel in the garage, temporarily wire a 220v plug in and rock on with your 175D

I think the chart mentions a 40 amp breaker, not sure if that helps or hurts the case.

One1 wrote:If you don’t like your welder you can run it on as little as you can get an arc with. We used to melt power supply transformers in audio amps by under supplying input current. Everytime the output load spiked the transformer heat immediately doubled. You’d be fortunate to get a 10% duty cycle. Hence why you need 15K to run on. Just because it welds doesn’t mean it will for long. That’s why in the OP chart as the voltage goes down, the amperage goes up. Ohms law wins every time. If you can’t support the current demand the pie chart is going to start moving against you.

One1 since I will just be doing tack welds duty cycle shouldn't be much of an issue no?

cloves wrote: I am in the US and I don't get why its showing 2 sets of numbers. For example 230v and 208v in the input part of the chart.

208v is common for industrial power distribution. Your house has 230v.

The two sets of numbers correspond to both 208 and 220. But in reality you might see as high as 240 and still be within the normal allowances. The higher amps number matches with the lower voltage. Ohms law.

The problem is that you are tack welding. The only part you NEED is the hot start, the part that isn’t there. You’re going to get a weak start and a cold weld with bad if any penetration, then melt over the top of it.

Thanks fella's I guess the generator is a no go. So I will have to run romex from a 2 pole breaker to the garage. Assuming that an 8/3 romex should be enough? Its about 65 ft to where I can drop an outlet into the garage.

cloves wrote:So I will have to run romex from a 2 pole breaker to the garage. Assuming that an 8/3 romex should be enough? Its about 65 ft to where I can drop an outlet into the garage.

For Romex you would need to use 6/3 to technically be in compliance. If you were running THWN in conduit #8 would be OK. Since you know you're only going to draw 20ish amps and this is temporary, you could wave your arms and make the case to use 8/3 because it's more than adequate from a voltage drop standpoint. The other option you have if it saves you routing headaches with the romex is to put the receptacle right next to your service panel and buy a 65' #8 extension cable.