Welding Tips and Tricks

I have a question about the risks when welding in your basement. Here's the situation.

I live in MN, and as you may guess, it can get cold in the winter. My wife and I are starting the process of finishing the basement. She came up with the idea about moving my tools from the garage and creating a workshop in what would have been the bedroom. Our basement is a walkout and there is a window in that back room.

I have the various woodworking tools and would like to get a few more. I will be doing woodworking down there but I also have a TIG welder. The question is, how stupid am I being? My understanding of the situation is I need to have ventilation from where I'm welding to the outside. I should also have a fire extinguisher. Am I taking right and enough precautions? Should I just say woodworking in the basement and welding in the garage and deal with the lack of heat in the winter?

I obviously don't want to burn my house down and I'm concerned about any off gasses that come from welding mild steel and aluminum. Those metals are about the only material I plan on working with. I won't be doing any stick welding, at least not in the basement, it will all be TIG down there.

Thoughts?
Thanks!

First, it's very generous and understanding of your wife to encourage your hobbies.

I am not a pro on this topic, and will read what others have to say with interest. I will point out some other considerations. First, argon is heavier than air and collects in low spaces. How much danger this poses depends on your situation and how much welding takes place. Theoretically if you vented the entire contents of an 80 cf argon tank in a closed 8x8 room, argon would displace air to a depth of 15 inches from the floor up. That's a pretty extreme example, but a leaking tank may threaten pets, for instance.

Another detail to consider is the threat of saw dust catching fire. I googled "saw dust flash fire" and got some credible returns. TIG generally does not create sparks but they can happen- this might be high on your list of things to look out for.

years ago my father was a avid hand gun target shooter and reloaded his own shells.
he did this in our family basement and being a firefighter was concerned about fire.
to lower the chance of a major house fire he had two sprinkler heads installed above his work
area. he never had an issue but it was a good precaution. possibly this might work for you and add
some piece of mind.
craig

These are great suggestions. As far as my wife is concerned, yes, I was very excited to hear the suggestion. The catch might be that I have to get all my tools down there. If the welder can't come with then that might change the workshop situation.

I need to install some kind of dust collection system for woodworking so my hope is saw dust isn't going to be a major problem. It is a very valid point that I need to make sure doesn't cause an issue and I am concerned about it.

As for the size of the room, it's 21x10 and I do have an 80 CF argon tank. As of right now I don't think it has a leak but as you know, these tanks get replaced and it's something to think about. I might not weld for weeks and if there's a leak with no ongoing ventilation then that would be an issue.

One thing that I was thinking about is something similar to a bathroom fan always running right above the welding table. I don't know if that would be enough suction but at least it's always on and would eliminate (or reduce) a leaking tank issue.

Something else I just thought about to potentially help with saw dust fire issues would be hanging heavy plastic sheets that I could roll up to the ceiling when not in use... kind of like a curtain. I don't know if I want to install sprinklers for two reasons..
1) cost, that sounds like something I couldn't do myself and there for expensive.
2) sprinklers are a reaction not a precaution. If I can enslose the potential sparks with a plastic wall that would help (and help with the ventilation).

Thoughts?

Plastic melts and in some cases, causes rather toxic fumes. I would suggest some other type of “curtain material” or that you be sure about the combustibility of what you choose.

First, you need to define your hazards.
Since you specify TIG there shouldn't be a lot of sparks produced, other than in grinding.
Second, no exhaust fan is worth spit unless adequate makeup air is included in the system
Third, curtain enclosures are wonderful things IF and only if they are done correctly. Plastics burn, become brittle, and generally wind up not being used. Even the cheap white muslin painters drop cloths Horrible Fright sells are superior to plastic because they are cotton and cotton has terrible burn and melt properties. In addition cotton can be fairly well flameproofed by dipping in several solutions beginning with Sodium Silicate.

That said, your bigger problem is going to be STINK.
Unless and until you can totally isolate the shop atmosphere from the rest of the house, STINK is going to migrate through the house like cooking bacon or canning mater sauce does, and the wife ain't going to be one bit happy about that, not even if she smokes a pack a day of Camels.
Be forewarned female humans have superior sense of smell to men.

I'd second the vote that smell is going to be tough to control. Solvents for cleaning are a separate problem, you might be able to use them out in the garage then carry the metal inside. If you weld something that had any oil on it, that really smells bad. If that room has a cold air return, I'd block it off so you don't draw odors and dust into the heating system.
I don't think fire from the torch is a problem, but grinding seems like a possible problem in a wood shop. If you could do all your prep out in the garage, and just do the welding in the basement, I think that might work.

My opinion, only single guys weld and do woodworking in the house

The grinding is harder to control than the welding.
The smell is hard to control.
The woodworking dust is hard to control.
The noise can't be controlled.

Build a nice shop so your vehicles don't have to sit outside in the winter - basements are better places for a sauna

My son has a little wood shop in his furnace room aprox. 10x15ft. He built a downdraft dust collector work table sealed box with a slatted top. A furnace fan inside enclosed in filters catches the dust. He also has an aprox. 16in blade exhaust fan sealed in a window in the room. The inlet air is just what comes in thru the open door at the opposite end as the fan. He has saws and sander etc and very little dust is seen in the room. A setup like that works well for the dust and I would think if you covered the flammables with a suitable cover with just the window fan running tig should be fine. The fan should create a bit of a negative vacuum in the room to keep any fumes out of the rest of the house.

Welding in a basement wood work shop. We-e-e-ell it depends on how good your insurance is and if anybody will be home when the smouldering wood dust flares up.
Sarcastic answer for an unsafe situation.

MinnesotaDave wrote:My opinion, only single guys weld and do woodworking in the house

The grinding is harder to control than the welding.
The smell is hard to control.
The woodworking dust is hard to control.
The noise can't be controlled.

Build a nice shop so your vehicles don't have to sit outside in the winter - basements are better places for a sauna

Sounds like you might have been there before? This made me laugh!

I weld in the basement. TIG is a pretty clean process, and I don't do a great deal of grinding there. I've never had complaints from family about it.
Once, I decided to try the Dynasty as a stick welder. I tacked a T joint 15" long of two pieces of 1/4 x 1-1/4", and proceeded to weld a three pass vertical up filet with 7018 1/8" on each side. The basement was so smoked up, and smelled so bad, I won't repeat that.
I've done a few MIG projects in the basement; five posts with 3/8" thick cradles for carrying timbers, and 1/2" bases. I've also done shelving framed with 1" square tube using MIG. That's pretty bad. Mrs. B tolerates that with all the doors open, 'cause she wanted it.

tungstendipper wrote:

MinnesotaDave wrote:My opinion, only single guys weld and do woodworking in the house

The grinding is harder to control than the welding.
The smell is hard to control.
The woodworking dust is hard to control.
The noise can't be controlled.

Build a nice shop so your vehicles don't have to sit outside in the winter - basements are better places for a sauna

Sounds like you might have been there before? This made me laugh!

... Well, I am single.. But mostly "no comment"

Back when I was married, with no shop, no garage, 20 below zero and chainsaw blew up - I rebuilt it on the kitchen table. Don't know what the anger was about... I put down cardboard... Haha!

Now I have a shop and a garage, and some of the vehicles still stay outside...

Use heat exchanger
This will keep heat in and the cold out

Dave

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noahzenzen wrote:I have a question about the risks when welding in your basement. Here's the situation.

I live in MN, and as you may guess, it can get cold in the winter. My wife and I are starting the process of finishing the basement. She came up with the idea about moving my tools from the garage and creating a workshop in what would have been the bedroom. Our basement is a walkout and there is a window in that back room.

I have the various woodworking tools and would like to get a few more. I will be doing woodworking down there but I also have a TIG welder. The question is, how stupid am I being? My understanding of the situation is I need to have ventilation from where I'm welding to the outside. I should also have a fire extinguisher. Am I taking right and enough precautions? Should I just say woodworking in the basement and welding in the garage and deal with the lack of heat in the winter?

I obviously don't want to burn my house down and I'm concerned about any off gasses that come from welding mild steel and aluminum. Those metals are about the only material I plan on working with. I won't be doing any stick welding, at least not in the basement, it will all be TIG down there.

Thoughts?
Thanks!

If you have a furnace that uses gas and a water heater that uses gas in your basement I would be more concerned about the saw dust myself. You need to be aware of static electricity in dust collection systems, even rolling up and un rolling plastic sheeting in a dry basement may cause a static charge. I would never do wood working that creates dust or any steel grinding cutting or welding in a basement. This doesn't even address the homeowners insurance. I have a TIG set up in my detached pole garage and it voided my property loss coverage in my garage. All the agents think of is sparks and SMAW welding which I only do outside in driveway.

Thanks everyone for the input, I appreciate it. After some thought I think it's better to leave the welding in the garage. It "might" be ok in the basement if enough precautions are taken but it's something that would probably just hang over my head all the time. Better to not have that level of stress.

I'll be taking the needed dust collection precautions for woodworking, that'll be down there. I'll probably also put a filter in cold air return for added safety.

Thanks!

You can always weld up a Thein separator and then weld up a ramp and winch to haul it out when the barrel is full.

Your insurance company will not have it. If you ever had an accidental fire, your at their mercy. I'm not willing to take the chance on my home. Got too much invested. Welding is welding to insurance companies, don't matter the process. Sure tig throws less sparks but your still dealing with hot metal, grinding and high ocv etc.
Best to talk to them first just to make sure. Just my advice.

Yes insurance companies will not pay if they find a welder in the rubble. My welder is in an unattached pole barn, my agent said any loss in the garage is on me now.

bruce991 wrote:Yes insurance companies will not pay if they find a welder in the rubble. My welder is in an unattached pole barn, my agent said any loss in the garage is on me now.

I do hope you made a written record of when the so called agent made that assertion because it will be key evidence when you litigate the claim.

You guys need a better insurance agent.

As primarily a sawdust maker, I'll warn you about the saw dust. The dust you see isn't the problem, except maybe with the wife, it's the dust you can't see will do serious damage to your lungs. When saw dust is that small it's a silica. The claims of the dust collector filters of 5 micron are BS. To get that dust you need a cyclone 9 ft tall with a 5hp blower. That engineering is really old. Hand tools make shavings ,not dust, so that is one answer.

I live in a mild enough climate that I get away with opening the big door on the double garage. No cars allowed.

I thought you were in Canada. Canadian tropics?

My gawd, this year was bad , we got snow a couple of times, even once after Valentines day ! The rain washed that away the next day. I live in the lower mainland of BC.

Poland308 wrote:You guys need a better insurance agent.

He just needs to make his insurance company aware of what he wants to do. So In the event of an accident, he’s covered.
They will tell him what he can and can’t do in order to be covered.


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