Welding Tips and Tricks

1st time poster.
I am currently looking to butt weld or butt braze 10 gauge wire into lamp shade frames. I am not pleased with the outcome of the finished product I am currently brazing. I have purchased some frames from a company that supplies frames but they do not make the size I need.

QUESTIONs. Is brazing the best way to accomplish this task?
Can I get better results with a stick welder? (like something I can buy at Lowes or Grizzly?
If I can figure out how to post a photo here I can show you a pic of the current frame I have. It may of been done with a big spot welder?

It will be a production setting. The more I can make in a day the better. I do not have the funds to buy big equipment.

ATTACHED IS A PHOTO OF THE WELD I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE

Hi there, that weld is done by a resistance method called flash butt welding. The parts are gripped in a machine and energized, then pushed together. As the current flows and it melts the metal they are forced together more which joins them. The current is automatically shut of after a pre determined time. Similar to spot welding in sheet metal.

Thank you Weldin Mike. Do you think I could do this with a stick welder? (not like the one pictured)

Definitely a little more process and equipment than a homeowner is going to have.
http://www.esab.com/automation/en/produ ... ipment.cfm

#10 steel wire and limited production you may well be better off employing a thin sleeve and soldering. Uninsulated wire splicing sleeves from China should run less than 2¢ on ebay.
Sleeving would be my first choice of a production method unless you're doing quantities above 1000 a day.

Nations wrote:1st time poster.
I am currently looking to butt weld or butt braze 10 gauge wire into lamp shade frames. I am not pleased with the outcome of the finished product I am currently brazing. I have purchased some frames from a company that supplies frames but they do not make the size I need.

QUESTIONs. Is brazing the best way to accomplish this task?
Can I get better results with a stick welder? (like something I can buy at Lowes or Grizzly?
If I can figure out how to post a photo here I can show you a pic of the current frame I have. It may of been done with a big spot welder?

It will be a production setting. The more I can make in a day the better. I do not have the funds to buy big equipment.

ATTACHED IS A PHOTO OF THE WELD I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE

Any chance you have a mig with a spot timer available you could make a simple jig of needle nose vice grips or similar and set a mig to spot would be fairly similar and you wouldn't have as much warpage as I suspect that gas welding may cause just a thought

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Nations wrote:Do you think I could do this with a stick welder?

Not likely. A quick tack with a MIG would be fast and reliable. You can also use 0.024 wire. You could solder, braze, or TIG fuse it, but those all require a bit longer in terms of time.

You will find, as you get further into welding, that you can weld most things with a stick welder if required. It will not look like the weld you pictured but it will be fine. The trick is, small rod, low amps, a jig to hold your wire still, with a small gap. A new rod, go in nice and steady with a pool que type action, holding the rod nice and still. Quick jab in, and out. It'll take some practice, but you'll get there. You'll be able to fuse the ends with out putting a big lump on it.

I'd love to take a stab at that job with a bandsaw blade welder power supply and a jig. I have a hunch it would work.

Franz© wrote:Definitely a little more process and equipment than a homeowner is going to have.
http://www.esab.com/automation/en/produ ... ipment.cfm

#10 steel wire and limited production you may well be better off employing a thin sleeve and soldering. Uninsulated wire splicing sleeves from China should run less than 2¢ on ebay.
Sleeving would be my first choice of a production method unless you're doing quantities above 1000 a day.

Thank you. Not a bad alternative but I will need to make " T Joints " and I do not see this as an option. Thank you for a good thought.

weldin mike 27 wrote:You will find, as you get further into welding, that you can weld most things with a stick welder if required. It will not look like the weld you pictured but it will be fine. The trick is, small rod, low amps, a jig to hold your wire still, with a small gap. A new rod, go in nice and steady with a pool que type action, holding the rod nice and still. Quick jab in, and out. It'll take some practice, but you'll get there. You'll be able to fuse the ends with out putting a big lump on it.

Thank you. I was hoping that might be possible. What about something a bit smaller like this https://www.homedepot.com/p/Lincoln-Ele ... /100031840

It seems like this is made for smaller gauge items.

cj737 wrote:

Nations wrote:Do you think I could do this with a stick welder?

Not likely. A quick tack with a MIG would be fast and reliable. You can also use 0.024 wire. You could solder, braze, or TIG fuse it, but those all require a bit longer in terms of time.

What type of MIG would you recommend? I am currently doing brazing but it is taking too long. I haven't' bought a full oxy setup because I am wanting to find a solution that does not require gas. Brazing works fine but trying to hit the 3 joints onto the 1.5" washer is becoming difficult to make it look decent. Would any MIG work? I have a Lowes or HD close by but nothing else being here in Fairbanks, AK. Thank you

Franz© wrote:I'd love to take a stab at that job with a bandsaw blade welder power supply and a jig. I have a hunch it would work.

Thank you. I think that might be out of my price ability. I wonder if I can get there with this. It is the cheapest and I can think of a million other things I can do with it. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Century-90- ... /302139495

Most any little welder you can get will work, as you are only doing such small things. It's mainly down to you practising and getting a smooth technique

weldin mike 27 wrote:Most any little welder you can get will work, as you are only doing such small things. It's mainly down to you practising and getting a smooth technique

Thank you for taking your time with this question. You would be amazed at how many "shops" I went to that were completely baffled by my question. Not that I want to bash anyone, but it seemed to me folks have been welding or brazing wire together for years. Maybe it was the "butt weld" that confused everyone. Either way, I am glad I have found this forum and would like to post my attempts. Thank you again. Doug

No problem Doug. Most of us try our best to get a solution for the questions at hand. In this case, it isn't the "correct" answer, but it will definitely get you started

Nations wrote:

Franz© wrote:I'd love to take a stab at that job with a bandsaw blade welder power supply and a jig. I have a hunch it would work.

Thank you. I think that might be out of my price ability. I wonder if I can get there with this. It is the cheapest and I can think of a million other things I can do with it. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Century-90- ... /302139495

That machine is “flux core” unit. That’s a variation of MIG and will work, but, after you weld, you will need to clean the fluux off your weld. It wunt be as pretty as hard wire MIG, but it certainly will be quick, use no gas, and be up to the task of your projects. Just understand the distinction.

It can be harder to find smaller diameter flux core wire too. You might need to order it online if your local stores don’t carry it.

cj737 wrote:

Nations wrote:

Franz© wrote:I'd love to take a stab at that job with a bandsaw blade welder power supply and a jig. I have a hunch it would work.

Thank you. I think that might be out of my price ability. I wonder if I can get there with this. It is the cheapest and I can think of a million other things I can do with it. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Century-90- ... /302139495

That machine is “flux core” unit. That’s a variation of MIG and will work, but, after you weld, you will need to clean the fluux off your weld. It wunt be as pretty as hard wire MIG, but it certainly will be quick, use no gas, and be up to the task of your projects. Just understand the distinction.

It can be harder to find smaller diameter flux core wire too. You might need to order it online if your local stores don’t carry it.

Thank you. Is it easy enough to just wire brush that off. I guess what I'm asking is can I clean it up or should I move on to find a decent priced entry level hard wire MIG?

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weldin mike 27 wrote:No problem Doug. Most of us try our best to get a solution for the questions at hand. In this case, it isn't the "correct" answer, but it will definitely get you started

Do you guys think this was done with a MIG welder? I'm guessing this would be the type of weld...but I'm just guessing.

Depending on how thick that center flat washer is you might want to consider a small tig welder. Going to hard wire mig or tig will require getting a gas bottle (different gas’s depending on process) but a tig machine with a low starting amps will give you more precision and less cleanup. It won’t be as fast but the results will definitely be better.

Poland308 wrote:Depending on how thick that center flat washer is you might want to consider a small tig welder. Going to hard wire mig or tig will require getting a gas bottle (different gas’s depending on process) but a tig machine with a low starting amps will give you more precision and less cleanup. It won’t be as fast but the results will definitely be better.

Thank you. When you say "definitely be better" do you mean less cleanup. The washers will be standard weight washers. Also, the T Joint off to the side of the photo will also be needed. I think I will have to paint these pieces so as long as I can wire brush off the MIG. (I'm only holding off the idea of the TIG because it looks like there are ZERO in Fairbanks, which is a common problem here in Alaska.

My wire chart says #9 steel wire is 0.148" roughly in the middle of 1/8 and 5/32.

The rim to spoke welds look like they were spot welded, possibly doable with a stick machine + a contactor.

The hub looks maximum 1/16 from what I can see in the picture.

How it was stuck together? Could be somebody tried MIG without gas and a quick trigger finger. I don't think it's stick done on a chill block.
Another possible is it was done using the spoke as an electrode in a stinger to grab a short duration arc and then immediately clamping it between 2 blocks.

Single carbon arc acting like a heliarc torch is a possibility too.

Washer looks like it might be plated which could account for some of the black. Really need to know the thickness of the washer and any coating or plating on both washer and wire to try experimenting with the job.

We moved a weldmesh machine. Weldmesh is used in concrete slabs. When we were finished, it was fun watching it work. The sparks would fly. One wire was negative the others were positive, and they were slammed together.

Franz© wrote:My wire chart says #9 steel wire is 0.148" roughly in the middle of 1/8 and 5/32.

The rim to spoke welds look like they were spot welded, possibly doable with a stick machine + a contactor.

The hub looks maximum 1/16 from what I can see in the picture.

How it was stuck together? Could be somebody tried MIG without gas and a quick trigger finger. I don't think it's stick done on a chill block.
Another possible is it was done using the spoke as an electrode in a stinger to grab a short duration arc and then immediately clamping it between 2 blocks.

Single carbon arc acting like a heliarc torch is a possibility too.

Washer looks like it might be plated which could account for some of the black. Really need to know the thickness of the washer and any coating or plating on both washer and wire to try experimenting with the job.

Thank you. I think I understood about 3%. HOWEVER, I take very good notes. By next week I could be up to 50%. Thank you for your info. I think im going to try the MIG and see what I can do. I will post photos and work from there. Thanks again. Doug

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQAMWzrByL4

Have a look at this video, and the related videos on the side. You will find the info you require. Quite possibly on youtube, you'll find a simple and easy method.

Best of luck

OK, lets try another approach.

My screen says there is a community college welding shop at 3770 Geist Rd, Fairbanks, AK
and their shop has stick, MIG & TIG equipment.

University of Ak also has a welding program at 604 Barnette St., Fairbanks, AK 99701

Since you've said twice there is no TIG in Fairbanks, evidently you didn't know of either facility. Since both facilities are taxpayer supported, you should be able to walk into either and get minimally advice from one of the instructors if not a demonstration of how he/she would accomplish the job.