General welding questions that dont fit in TIG, MIG, Stick, or Certification etc.
Demented
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So I'm currently running into this issue and not sure if I'm handelling the situation wrong (yay self doubt), or correct, or if anyone has any suggestions of what to do different.

Backstory.
A co-worker asked me if I'm able to weld aluminum because his other job needs some stuff welded and their side welder OD'd and they needed this job done by this coming Saturday AM. This was a week ago on a Wednesday. Told him sure, I can do it so long as I've got everything by this past weekend, of which they said no problem.

It was originally supposed to be one piece of 2"x2" .125 wall box 6061 with some 2"x2" .125" 6061 angle making a 11' x 18" frame, which is no problem for me. He'd have one of his guys bring the materials to my house one day after work.
He called me up saying I'd need to drive 35 miles south of where I am to pick up the materials. The metal company was refusing to deliver to my address. Semi-flat beds are the only thing not allowed in my neighborhood so I was a bit confused.

Get down to the location, get the 3 pieces of metal I need (which turns out to be anodized 6063 and not plain 6061)...and then wait 2 hours for him to show up with the drawing an deposit, which he forgot. What ever, he said he's sorry, he'd have it for me at 7AM the following day and he's fine waiting for me to fab the thing.
In hind sight, here's where I should have said no to the entire thing.
10:30AM rolls around and he finally shows, gives me dimensions, I make the thing which is now 8x the size it originally was, he then realizes he gave me the wrong dimensions, but he's happy with the quality. He then tells me he needs 19 more of them, at the proper dimensions and he'd pay X amount and I'd have the deposit the next day when I pick up the rest of the materials. Hard to turn down good money for a job that he doesn't need done until 6 more days.

I get down to get the rest of the materials, and he texts me saying he'll have the check the next day. Now I know this is a huge red flag, but this is for a construction company with positive customer reviews so I figured all was well. Not happy at this point, but I already drove down there, may as well pick everything up and get to work cutting everything to size. Part of the original plan was the deposit he was going to pay was to cover the cost of the welding and cutting materials. Was looking at 2 days worth of cutting and 4 of welding, plus having to go to the supplier and pick up additional material he was short of on his original order. Told him on Saturday, Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday I'm not welding the stuff until I get the partial payment, so at least my time is saved on not having wasted all the time welding.

...And here we are now, on day 5 of forgotten payment. I told him yesterday that at this point, I am no longer able to be in this deal and gave him the amount I need payment for for the work that has already been done, plus the one completed item. No response from him. This morning I get frantic text messages from him saying he's bringing payment, it's important, he needs it done, etc. etc. Was supposed to be here by now, but no surprise, he's not. He wont take me saying no to the job as an answer. Yesterday in my message to him I told him I need to have this stuff out of my garage by Friday or Saturday AM because it's quite literally taking up 90% of my floor space and I have other stuff that I need to have completed for someone else on Sunday that I have not had a chance to get to yet (which thankfully it's small, but I can't get to my Mill with all this aluminum in the way :lol: ).

On top of all that, my co-worker at the end of the day told me this guy doesn't have anyone with a truck to actually get the stuff from me, like this guy originally said. He was hoping, without asking me, I'd make 7 round trips on Saturday to drop everything off at the location (490 miles) at no extra cost. End product is 20 total of 144"x24"x18" frames, which there's no way I can physically transport all that with a run down pickup.

I have no idea what to do now. I have $7k worth of aluminum taking up all my space, and a guy who keeps forgetting to pay and still thinks, even if he shows up with the deposit tonight, that I can have all 20 of these things done for him, for now me delivering them, Saturday morning, which is 100% impossible especially with the LWS closed tomorrow.
Never run into a situation like this before so I'm just completely dumbfounded. I want to just go dump everything back off at the site in it's unwelded state but don't really want to eat the cost of 3 days of work, which I'm afraid I'm going to have to do.

Any help?
"Your welds should sound like bacon. If your welds smell like bacon, you're on fire." - Uncle Bumblefuck (AvE)
cj737
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He either shows up with the check or he doesn’t. If he doesn’t, you can charge him storage or inform him you will be selling the material to cover your costs.

If he does show, and persuades you to finish, put in writing what the services are, the agreed amount, and the details. Stop going by a handshake. You have no ability at this point to defend yourself from him claiming you didn’t perform the work and he need not pay you. See my point... your word vs his word. Written Service Agreements keep things clear and clean. Plain and simple.

If he shows up, you make a deal based upon the new conditions, the new work, the new schedule, take it or leave it. If you make those 7 trips, charge him. Get paid for the work in total before delivery. Then delivery payment 50% before, 50% upon final. Time and fuel is worth a fair bit.
Demented
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I've got a contract in writing so I'm at least covered there.

I don't have anything about storage fees in the original deal so I'll look into legalities of having those without it being in a contract. Never had this issue before so storage fees have never crossed my mind.

Just found out some things from a few co-workers about this guy so it all kinda makes sense now. Don't do drugs kids.
"Your welds should sound like bacon. If your welds smell like bacon, you're on fire." - Uncle Bumblefuck (AvE)
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With his record, I'm not sure 50% down is enough, have him arrange a flatbed for the pickup
Richard
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Demented
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LtBadd wrote:With his record, I'm not sure 50% down is enough, have him arrange a flatbed for the pickup
I told him he needs a flat bed, but he doesn't agree. He's thinks he can convince someone else with a pick-up to come haul it all away Saturday morning and give me the payment prior to getting the metal. Will be interesting to see that. Never seen anyone try and put 4,000lbs on the bed of a Chevy 1500 before.
"Your welds should sound like bacon. If your welds smell like bacon, you're on fire." - Uncle Bumblefuck (AvE)
Poland308
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I’ve seen 4000 lbs on a 1500. Don’t underestimate stupid. If he paid for the materials but not the work. I would either be getting paid or I’d cut it back apart and send it in pieces. I’d also eat the time and put his name on the 200% markup and all cash up front list.
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Josh
Demented
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Over the axle or towing? My suspension was almost bottomed out and I've got F250 leafs on my F150.

Didn't weld anything so no need to cut it all apart. Last thing I was gunna do was pay for the gas, filler, and angry wall pixies out of pocket. Only stuff I welded was some off cuts to figure this anodized crap out since he bought the wrong metal. Gotta hand it to people who do tuna towers. That stuff isn't easy.

Definitely gotta update my work contract. Find and replace "Mill" and "Lathe" to "Weld" on an old machining job contract doesn't quite cut it.
"Your welds should sound like bacon. If your welds smell like bacon, you're on fire." - Uncle Bumblefuck (AvE)
Poland308
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Overloads are just a suggestion. Your not overloaded till the front wheels leave the ground.
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Josh
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cj737 wrote:He either shows up with the check or he doesn’t. If he doesn’t, you can charge him storage or inform him you will be selling the material to cover your costs.

If he does show, and persuades you to finish, put in writing what the services are, the agreed amount, and the details. Stop going by a handshake. You have no ability at this point to defend yourself from him claiming you didn’t perform the work and he need not pay you. See my point... your word vs his word. Written Service Agreements keep things clear and clean. Plain and simple.

If he shows up, you make a deal based upon the new conditions, the new work, the new schedule, take it or leave it. If you make those 7 trips, charge him. Get paid for the work in total before delivery. Then delivery payment 50% before, 50% upon final. Time and fuel is worth a fair bit.
If he shows up with a check make sure it's certified and cleared before you get in any deeper. He's the one, not you that's put the project behind so don't let him push you because of his own incompetence. Precise, detailed documentation is very important. Fortunately most are good to deal with but one bad one means you do a lot of other work to make up the loss. Been there!
Demented
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Interesting morning to say the least. Metal is gone, I at least got a check that covers my costs minus one or two hours though still under what I was asking.

This guy has clearly done stuff like this to other people. Even though I am running under an LLC to protect myself, he showed up with two cops in tow with some story about me stealing his metal and was wanting to press charges for theft of just shy of $9k in materials.

It was explained to me that even though there is a signed contract for the work, he's got the receipt for the metal so they have to side with him and I have to take the issue up in small claims court. Or if I refuse to release the metal to him, it'll be a felony charge and they'd have to take me in until the judge decides on Monday AM. Didn't even know that was legal to be done even though I do have the LLC.

Never going to accept customer supplied metal like this again that's for sure! I'm willing to bet this was his plan the entire time, he was just hoping I was dumb enough to complete the work.
"Your welds should sound like bacon. If your welds smell like bacon, you're on fire." - Uncle Bumblefuck (AvE)
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Hope the check cashes
Richard
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Demented
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It did finally after some trouble at the bank. Not sure what the issue was, but I was eventually handed cash so I don't care.

Edit: Plus I at least have all the off cuts to practice on. He didn't want to take that stuff. I wont say no to 100lbs of free aluminum.
"Your welds should sound like bacon. If your welds smell like bacon, you're on fire." - Uncle Bumblefuck (AvE)
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Damn man, I'm happy for you that you got this resolved.

He brought cops??!! Not cool... :shock:
Dave J.

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Poland308
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I’d be hard pressed to think your co worker who referred you didn’t know what he was setting you up for.
I have more questions than answers

Josh
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MinnesotaDave wrote:Damn man, I'm happy for you that you got this resolved.

He brought cops??!! Not cool... :shock:
Yeah. Was surprised as hell at that.
Poland308 wrote:I’d be hard pressed to think your co worker who referred you didn’t know what he was setting you up for.
That's been weighing on my mind, but I don't quite think so. My co-worker has argued with him a few times trying to get me paid ever since I first started talking about backing out on Monday after he forgot to pay me again.

One of my retired neighbors is going to keep an eye out around the neighborhood to see if this guy ever shows back up again for some reason while I'm off at work.
"Your welds should sound like bacon. If your welds smell like bacon, you're on fire." - Uncle Bumblefuck (AvE)
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What a scumbag.
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jmartinfab
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This is why I joined this forum, thanks for sharing the lesson you had to learn the hard way. Definitely helps others who will deal with scammers like your 'customer'
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On small job by hour and travel by mile
On large I just had put up it , but picking up metal still by mile with wait time charge

Dave
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