Welding Tips and Tricks

I'm back ... eager as ever. Putting my worry of medical issues aside I'm trying to find a decent priced unit for a first timer. I seen the Forney 140 flux core for $200ish and was curious about thoughts on this, it has a small 20% duty cycle but should be ok for me starting out. Is there any other better deals? If there is already a post on this and I missed it then please delete and point me in right direction.

Thanks In Advance!

i always recommend a stick welder for a first welder.
best thing to learn with.
old transformer machines are fairly cheap to pick up 2nd hand and there is lots of good cheap inverters around that will outperform any flux core welder.

Pretty hard to learn to weld properly on a Flux Core only box. I’d strongly suggest a Stick/TIG box, and start with Stick as Tweake recommends. You’ll learn to manipulate the rod, manage your puddle, and it’s the cheapest process by a long margin. Some 3/32 7018 rods, bunches of scrap, and proper PPE and you’re off.

Then move to TIG. My opinion, MIG and FC should be last. Once you know what to look for, it’s far easier to see it with a wire feed box an know what you’re doing right or wrong. Wire feeders spew filler at such high rates, you need o be dialed and stroking along at production pace, not something easy to get right on your own.

There are some reasonable 110v Stick/TIG box you can beat up and throw away, or even by a Buzz Box and it will last a pretty good long while, even get you AC current.

tweake wrote:i always recommend a stick welder for a first welder.
best thing to learn with.
old transformer machines are fairly cheap to pick up 2nd hand and there is lots of good cheap inverters around that will outperform any flux core welder.

Thanks, yeah I understand the starting with stick first mainly because (from what research I've done) I may pick up bad technique habits that can hinder teaching myself to weld by using a MIG gun starting off. I thought there were inverter type flux core welders??? Did I miss something? I probably did trying to compile as much research as possible...

I was trying to find a little 110v unit for mainly automotive sheet metal and maybe move up to getting good enough for frame work after a couple years.... then move up to a slightly bigger machine. Right now I'm looking and will probably buy when I move. I don't have the right outlet/breaker set up for the welder at the moment ...

cj737 wrote:Pretty hard to learn to weld properly on a Flux Core only box. I’d strongly suggest a Stick/TIG box, and start with Stick as Tweake recommends. You’ll learn to manipulate the rod, manage your puddle, and it’s the cheapest process by a long margin. Some 3/32 7018 rods, bunches of scrap, and proper PPE and you’re off.

Then move to TIG. My opinion, MIG and FC should be last. Once you know what to look for, it’s far easier to see it with a wire feed box an know what you’re doing right or wrong. Wire feeders spew filler at such high rates, you need o be dialed and stroking along at production pace, not something easy to get right on your own.

There are some reasonable 110v Stick/TIG box you can beat up and throw away, or even by a Buzz Box and it will last a pretty good long while, even get you AC current.

Thanks, the stick would be a cheaper and easier set up from what I've figured, but from what research I've done I've found that trying to use stick on automotive sheet metal is a nightmare due to sticking and hard to start the arc. I'm trying hard to stay away from using gas on a machine starting out due to it being a huge PITA to get it when I need it and over paying because I'm not a business. If I'm wrong or maybe I'm misunderstanding something please let me know. I realize I'm a newbie and I'm not into yet like most everyone else here.

TIG is a little intimidating from what I've seen ... kinda reminds me of rubbing tummy and patting head at same time LoL. I would love to learn it though due to it being the better way to weld up automotive sheet metal and in my opinion it's a prettier process.

If you are going to work on thin sheet metal (automotive) then you’ll definitely not want Flux Core. You can buy a smaller tank with MIG gas 75%argon/25%CO2 and have any local welding supply store refill it. Or, open an account with them, rent a large cylinder, then just pay the gas when you swap an empty tank for a full one.

Expect to pay about $80 for the gas when you swap.

loudandgreen wrote:

tweake wrote:i always recommend a stick welder for a first welder.
best thing to learn with.
old transformer machines are fairly cheap to pick up 2nd hand and there is lots of good cheap inverters around that will outperform any flux core welder.

Thanks, yeah I understand the starting with stick first mainly because (from what research I've done) I may pick up bad technique habits that can hinder teaching myself to weld by using a MIG gun starting off. I thought there were inverter type flux core welders??? Did I miss something? I probably did trying to compile as much research as possible...

I was trying to find a little 110v unit for mainly automotive sheet metal and maybe move up to getting good enough for frame work after a couple years.... then move up to a slightly bigger machine. Right now I'm looking and will probably buy when I move. I don't have the right outlet/breaker set up for the welder at the moment ...

a flux core welder is nothing more than a mig welder thats they have left bits off to make it as cheap as possible.
so its the cheapest nastiest bit of crap machine you could possibly find. often they use the cheap out of date tech.
so any decent mig will do flux core, all it takes is to change over to the flux core rollers which they usually come with.

one thing i found (i have a roll of flux core for when i run out of gas) is some flux core wires need to be set just right to work well.
most cheap flux core welders do not have precise adjustment to be able to do that.

if you go for a mig, get a reasonable one. i'm not saying go end a high end machine, just one thats not complete garbage.
for me a cheap good mig is 4x the price of a cheap inverter stick welder. that will vary depending on where you are in the world.

thin sheet metal is one of the more difficult things to do. and you can actually use stick to weld it to.
thin metal is always a challenge. normally start out with thicker material.

if gas supply is a problem, look for a co2 tank and regulator, and other suppliers like paint ball shops, brewery shops etc.

still i would start with stick. even if you go to mig later on, stick is still very handy and useful.

Yeah I get the flux core is only a MIG that has to be switched to electrode neg and no gas etc etc. That's why I originally wanted to start with it BUT if I can find a stick set-up that I can lower the amps enough to start on automotive sheet metal as well as higher amps for some frame work ... then I'm game!

What amp range am I looking for? 10a-150a? I will have to look again to remember what rods were attempted for automotive sheet metal.

Thanks again!

i'm not sure on what amps to run on thin sheet.
i did a bit on thin walled tubing.
rods, typically 6013. looks for the ones marked made for sheet metal etc. there is a whole range of different 6013's available.
by mem electrode negative and downhill with fast travel speed. almost no rod angle.

learn on thicker metal first.

don't forget this is a starting point.
once you can do it with that you can then expand into mig and tig.

A lot of top metalmen that do restorations, panel replacement, and complete body rebuilds in steel and aluminum
use O/A. It is more maleable especially if you do more hammer work after welding, its less likely to crack.

I just bought the unit you are looking at.Now i already have a miller 211 transformer Mig.That was probably the best money I ever spent.But it is a 70# not counting cables and gas.It sucks on Flux Core unit So at 76 YO it is not that portable for me The Forney Is an Inverter Unit It is also DC So for 200.00 bucks it's not bad at all.I think it is 19 # with all cables less wire.120V only.You will need a 20 amp dedicated Breaker to get full potential I use a line with LED lights on it and not had a problem.With this unit like all Flux sheet metal sucks. But being a DC inverter and using anti spatter it is very good in a pinch.I use Lincoln Innersheild 211MP after trying a few others. So I don't think it is that bad .But for a 150.00 more you could get a unit for solid wire also.

Tonylumps wrote:I just bought the unit you are looking at.Now i already have a miller 211 transformer Mig.That was probably the best money I ever spent.But it is a 70# not counting cables and gas.It sucks on Flux Core unit So at 76 YO it is not that portable for me The Forney Is an Inverter Unit It is also DC So for 200.00 bucks it's not bad at all.I think it is 19 # with all cables less wire.120V only.You will need a 20 amp dedicated Breaker to get full potential I use a line with LED lights on it and not had a problem.With this unit like all Flux sheet metal sucks. But being a DC inverter and using anti spatter it is very good in a pinch.I use Lincoln Innersheild 211MP after trying a few others. So I don't think it is that bad .But for a 150.00 more you could get a unit for solid wire also.

Thanks, I'm now seriously considering a stick unit BUT I will not buy till I move (whenever that is). I've tried figuring out how to run a 110v unit on a 30a-40a breaker that I don't have (20a is all I find) BUT I do have what looks like a 220v outlet that the stove is hooked to, being I don't cook much... it seems to be a better idea for a 220v unit.

Here's the kicker.... IF I decided (and was possible) to use that 220v outlet I would need about a 100ft welding approved extension cord (I'm thinking atleast a 6 gauge) to go from the kitchen through the apartment to the other side of apartment then out window then down and around to the shop at ground level.

The shop did have 220v but when my landlord got this place he stripped EVERYTHING electrical out of the shop.

I know I'm probably over thinking things but I would rather be safe and do it right.

Being I'm currently on disability trying to go back to work I've became great at over thinking the easiest things.

It’s rather easy to run a new 120 or 240 circuit from your panel. You DON’T want to run a 100’ extension cord from the stove to the shop, that’s for sure. The cost of that will be more than having an electrician come run a sub panel for Pete’s Sake.

A sub panel with probably 4 120v circuits, 3 at 15amp, 1 @20 amp would be fine and another at 220v is all you need. The 20 amp to run your welder or other grinder/saw in a pinch, plus a 220 for heat/ac or a welder. It’s not really that complicated actually. Since you’re on Disability, here’s a money-saving trick for you: grab a couple of decent books, do some study, then go pass your county Electrical test. You can then install under a permit, shop electrical, properly. You’ll forever save money and increase your skill set. Fixing household electrical is very doable if you know what you’re doing and it truly doesn’t take a Master Electrician in most cases.

I wire my new shop from the panel and saved over $3,500 from my Electrican. Pulled a permit and passed the first go. If I can do it, a monkey with one eye and bad hearing can.

cj737 wrote:If I can do it, a monkey with one eye and bad hearing can.

cj737 wrote:It’s rather easy to run a new 120 or 240 circuit from your panel. You DON’T want to run a 100’ extension cord from the stove to the shop, that’s for sure. The cost of that will be more than having an electrician come run a sub panel for Pete’s Sake.

A sub panel with probably 4 120v circuits, 3 at 15amp, 1 @20 amp would be fine and another at 220v is all you need. The 20 amp to run your welder or other grinder/saw in a pinch, plus a 220 for heat/ac or a welder. It’s not really that complicated actually. Since you’re on Disability, here’s a money-saving trick for you: grab a couple of decent books, do some study, then go pass your county Electrical test. You can then install under a permit, shop electrical, properly. You’ll forever save money and increase your skill set. Fixing household electrical is very doable if you know what you’re doing and it truly doesn’t take a Master Electrician in most cases.

I wire my new shop from the panel and saved over $3,500 from my Electrican. Pulled a permit and passed the first go. If I can do it, a monkey with one eye and bad hearing can.

I tried taking an electrical class at the college a few years ago as part of the continuing education part of the college and realized I did not belong. I think it's just better if I move (due to a long list of other reasons)

It's going to take a long while to find another place but it will be worth the wait. While I'm waiting to find another place I'm doing as much research as I can on welding and any other topic I find interesting and doable for me.

I've moved!!! Now I have room I am seriously looking at a multiprocess unit. I'm looking at Lowe's only because I got a 10% off coupon for them. To kind of play it safe I will be looking at a 160a unit or close to that. Of course I will still need about a 50ft extension to run it off the 220v but atleast I have room. I'm trying to stay under $1000 but I will see.

loudandgreen wrote:I've moved!!! Now I have room I am seriously looking at a multiprocess unit. I'm looking at Lowe's only because I got a 10% off coupon for them. To kind of play it safe I will be looking at a 160a unit or close to that. Of course I will still need about a 50ft extension to run it off the 220v but atleast I have room. I'm trying to stay under $1000 but I will see.

Scratch the Lowe's idea. The selection is not worth 10% being I'm not finding what I want no where near the price I want

These are close to what I'm aiming for but ... maybe I'm over thinking this.

Century 155 Amp Inverter Arc 230 Stick Welder, Single Phase, 220V-K2790-1 - The Home Depot
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Century-155 ... &gclsrc=ds


Forney Easy Weld 180 ST 120V/230 V Welder - - Amazon.com
https://www.amazon.com/Forney-Easy-Weld ... ref=plSrch

I was looking for a stick/TIG unit but I guess I can start with stick only. I need as low as 10a to figure out thin automotive grade sheet metal as well as up to 160ish amps for thicker stuff like automotive frame work.

As usual I'm open for suggestions

Thanx in advance!

loudandgreen wrote:These are close to what I'm aiming for but ... maybe I'm over thinking this.

Century 155 Amp Inverter Arc 230 Stick Welder, Single Phase, 220V-K2790-1 - The Home Depot
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Century-155 ... &gclsrc=ds


Forney Easy Weld 180 ST 120V/230 V Welder - - Amazon.com
https://www.amazon.com/Forney-Easy-Weld ... ref=plSrch

I was looking for a stick/TIG unit but I guess I can start with stick only. I need as low as 10a to figure out thin automotive grade sheet metal as well as up to 160ish amps for thicker stuff like automotive frame work.

As usual I'm open for suggestions

Thanx in advance!

both of those are tig/stick units. having said that any dc stick welder can be a tig welder.
they are just basic units which is fine for starting with.