This is not a review, it's more of a "how can they do this?"
I recently found some 3M Cubitron II discs on Ebay for $12.95/ea + $2 shipping, so I ordered 2 of them.
They came today, and I think this kind of relates to Spartan's question about his business prospect.
They had to pay $11.75 for shipping, yet they only charged me $4 ($2/ea). The seller had sold some of these discs previously, so must know how much they cost to ship, unless they have their employer pay and use their machine.
Either way I'm looking forward to trying these out on some steel tonight. they look really nice Oscar, for certain.
In on this, I always hesitate to spend shipping costs on limited quantities just to test something but a lot of us probably spend more time grinding than under the hood, and I hate every second of it. I'm always looking for more experience with higher cost consumables.
I ordered one from the same seller after you posted about it. Should be here soon. We can do a grind-off to see who can remove the most material with their cubitrons on 60 seconds
Spartan wrote:Surprised they spent that much on shipping!!
You and me both. I could fit both of these in a small flat rate for $7, and a vendor gets a break. It looks like a USPS machine the label came off of...yours must have shipped same time...was shipped from TX on 07/06.
Oscar wrote:Watch out when they're brand new with that sharp 90° edge. You will easily gouge out a lot of metal with that edge until you're able to blend it out.
Yeah, I was thinking it might take a while to get the edge rounded. I like to have that edge rounded over so in case I rotate the disc up and down it doesn't cut into the metal.
Oscar wrote:Watch out when they're brand new with that sharp 90° edge. You will easily gouge out a lot of metal with that edge until you're able to blend it out.
Indeed that's so, I did gouge one piece and I was even trying to be careful.
Seems pretty good so far. Will probably take a bit to round over the edge.
They will last a very long time. The way they engineered those triangular/pyramidal grains to fracture and re-introduce more sharp cutting edges is quite clever. That keeps they cutting fast for a very long time, until you finally wear it out. I have not been able to wear out a hard disk yet. The only ones I have worn are the 982C Fibre Disc .
Last edited by Oscar on Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Oscar wrote:They will last a very long time. The way they engineering those triangular/pyramidal grains to fracture and re-introduce more sharp cutting edges is quite clever. That keeps they cutting fast for a very long time, until you finally wear it out. I have not been able to wear out a hard disk yet. The only ones I have worn are the 982C Fibre Disc .
As long as you preferace your claim by minuets of grinding. An average flap disk I’ve used for carbon pipe beveling lasted for literally hours of grinding. ( assuming that a 6” bevel takes 20 minutes) there’s about 4 hours of grinding average.
Oscar wrote:They will last a very long time. The way they engineering those triangular/pyramidal grains to fracture and re-introduce more sharp cutting edges is quite clever. That keeps they cutting fast for a very long time, until you finally wear it out. I have not been able to wear out a hard disk yet. The only ones I have worn are the 982C Fibre Disc .
As long as you preferace your claim by minuets of grinding. An average flap disk I’ve used for carbon pipe beveling lasted for literally hours of grinding. ( assuming that a 6” bevel takes 20 minutes) there’s about 4 hours of grinding average.
Poland308 wrote:As long as you preferace your claim by minuets of grinding. An average flap disk I’ve used for carbon pipe beveling lasted for literally hours of grinding. ( assuming that a 6” bevel takes 20 minutes) there’s about 4 hours of grinding average.
Josh,
I don't get near the life out of flap discs as I do grinding discs, what type of flap discs are you using that you're getting literally hours of grinding out of them? 4 hours is a long time on a flap, in my experience. Especially if you're beveling 6" pipe, I don't think I get near that off the flaps I have used.
Spartan wrote:Couple deliveries today. TTW has been helping me reduce the thickness of my wallet this week.
I'm an expert at wallet thickness reduction, this is child's play compared to building a shop/home...
Look at that price, still doesn't make sense at all...that's about half of what mine was, but he only charged you $2 for shipping.
Granted he did charge $12.95 for the disc, but unless he got the discs at auction (probably the case), it's not really any more than if one had to buy a case of them.
These discs are brutes, I suspect one will last a long long time.
Spartan wrote:Couple deliveries today. TTW has been helping me reduce the thickness of my wallet this week.
I'm an expert at wallet thickness reduction, this is child's play compared to building a shop/home...
Look at that price, still doesn't make sense at all...that's about half of what mine was, but he only charged you $2 for shipping.
Granted he did charge $12.95 for the disc, but unless he got the discs at auction (probably the case), it's not really any more than if one had to buy a case of them.
These discs are brutes, I suspect one will last a long long time.
We'll see how that disc holds up in a job shop. I suspect it may be more tailored for production work...making the same similar (and non-abusive) cuts over and over again. I'll be putting it through it's paces as only a job shop can. If it's value turns out to be 5x what I spend for the typical hard-rocks, then I'll definitely be buying more. I'll update in a week or so. Just had a trailer build come into the shop which will be a perfect test to put this through its paces.
And after I abuse it, I'll turn it over to my guys to abuse. That's probably the real test. Good lord...
TraditionalToolworks wrote:
Hold the press, we still need to wait for Spartan's "production metal" verification. Evidently his metal is tougher than ours.
No we don't. Whether he thinks they are worth the value will be his personal opinion. Whether they can last longer than cheapies, and obliterate any steel in their path better, is not even up for discussion.
TraditionalToolworks wrote:Other than that, yeah, where's that button?
I know it's here somewhere, I been moving a lot of stuff around in the garage.
Oscar wrote:Where is that Oscar-is-right-yet-again counter, I don't remember where I left it....
Hold the press, we still need to wait for Spartan's "production metal" verification. Evidently his metal is tougher than ours.
Other than that, yeah, where's that button?
A lot of these high-end consumables are tailored to production use, not general purpose use. Bandsaw blades come to mind as a good analogy for comparison. I am a "general purpose" user, so I will see how it works for MY needs. Nothing else was implied in my post.
TraditionalToolworks wrote:
Hold the press, we still need to wait for Spartan's "production metal" verification. Evidently his metal is tougher than ours.
No we don't. Whether he thinks they are worth the value will be his personal opinion. Whether they can last longer than cheapies, and obliterate any steel in their path better, is not even up for discussion.
But is it 5x better?? That is the question. That is a big ticket to fill. I won't pay 5x the price for a disc that is only 2x or 3x as good as the traditional hard rocks.
Oscar wrote:No we don't. Whether he thinks they are worth the value will be his personal opinion. Whether they can last longer than cheapies, and obliterate any steel in their path better, is not even up for discussion.
Seriously though, that's a tough one to quantify. I get quite a bit of mileage off a Diablo wheel, some wheels only cost about $2-$3/ea, so how does one really quantify if the disc lasts 4x longer?
I know it seems pretty tough in my first use, even after gouging a couple times there's no real sign of wear.
I'd like to try some of the other 3M products, like the flaps and even the Fibre discs which you mention wear out. If they wear out slower than flap discs they could still be a great value.
Spartan wrote:But is it 5x better?? That is the question. That is a big ticket to fill. I won't pay 5x the price for a disc that is only 2x or 3x as good as the traditional hard rocks.
And I look forward to finding out.
Yup, exactly. Eye-of-the-begrinder. It all depends on what you personally define as "better" or "as good". Say it doesn't last 3x what a traditional hard-rock lasts....BUT say it removes metal 10x faster leading to better production times which leads to more profits that greatly offset the 5x cost? But yes, I'm also very interested in your take on it in the end.
Spartan wrote:But is it 5x better?? That is the question. That is a big ticket to fill. I won't pay 5x the price for a disc that is only 2x or 3x as good as the traditional hard rocks.
But we're talking about such a small amount of money. I mean seriously how many of these could you possibly wear out in 2-3 months, maybe 1 ???
I'll be curious as you could very well go through one a lot faster than me, for certain, I'm just gauging it on some use and what I normally grind, so it's even hard to quantify, but I would keep buying them if/when the 2 wear out that I have.
Oscar wrote:Yup, exactly. Eye-of-the-begrinder. It all depends on what you personally define as "better" or "as good". Say it doesn't last 3x what a traditional hard-rock lasts....BUT say it removes metal 10x faster leading to better production times which leads to more profits that greatly offset the 5x cost? But yes, I'm also very interested in your take on it in the end.
I think it does remove material faster, but my test is not very scientific.
Oscar wrote:No we don't. Whether he thinks they are worth the value will be his personal opinion. Whether they can last longer than cheapies, and obliterate any steel in their path better, is not even up for discussion.
Seriously though, that's a tough one to quantify. I get quite a bit of mileage off a Diablo wheel, some wheels only cost about $2-$3/ea, so how does one really quantify if the disc lasts 4x longer?
I know it seems pretty tough in my first use, even after gouging a couple times there's no real sign of wear.
I'd like to try some of the other 3M products, like the flaps and even the Fibre discs which you mention wear out. If they wear out slower than flap discs they could still be a great value.
The flaps are great. The fibre discs are awesome, but it's not the ceramic media that wears out. What I've experienced is that the resin/glue that they use to hold them to the disc is what gives, and then the ceramic media goes flying off. I don't think I've saved any to show, but on the outer edge that usually gets much more "use", you can see how they eventually fall off, and that is what does them in. If they could be adhered better, they would be a lot letter. Even so, I really like them because they are just as coarse as the hard discs, but since they flex with the backer-pad, they can remove millscale extremely quickly over a large flat area.
We'll see. I should say "I'll" see since I'm not speaking for the group and don't have tougher metals than anyone else here. I'm skeptical only because I've been fooled before, and have returned to the basics after shelling out $$$ for the high-end consumables.
Spartan wrote:We'll see. I should say "I'll" see since I'm not speaking for the group and don't have tougher metals than anyone else here. I'm skeptical only because I've been fooled before, and have returned to the basics after shelling out $$$ for the high-end consumables.
I'll see.
Spartan,
This I will say, and I'm sure you'll agree...they're not cheap.
But there are more than a few folks claiming how great they are, so it's not just Oscar, he was just one of the more vocal ones. noddybrian or someone else was praising them as well. So, it can't be a fluke that people tend to be impressed by them...just saying...
