Welding Tips and Tricks

I grew up using Empire levels like probably most of us then stepped up to Flange Wizard. Absolutely love Flange Wizard, but Stabila is starting to look and sound awfully nice right now. What are yalls favorite torpedo and pocket levels?

Everything else is second place once you've used one of these

https://www.anytimesale.com/AccuRemote- ... 203919.htm

BugHunter wrote:Everything else is second place once you've used one of these

https://www.anytimesale.com/AccuRemote- ... 203919.htm

Yes! Those are incredible. I use them often to determine relative angles when zeroed to my fixturing table or to the work. So accurate and so easy. Klein has started selling them as well, and I’ve been meaning to pickup a couple of theirs since they appear to be just a bit more rugged than the random-brand ones.

BugHunter wrote:Everything else is second place once you've used one of these

https://www.anytimesale.com/AccuRemote- ... 203919.htm

I have seen those before but never had the chance to try one out. You recommend one of those over a torpedo? If so i might just give one a shot and see for myself

I think bubble levels definitely still have a place, though. Sometimes it’s nice to be able to watch that bubble slowly move instead of watching digital numbers jerk around.

short digital levels/angle finders are good and handy. But, being so short, they are less accurate than a 48" or >. So if the tolerance is acceptable, they are hard to beat. For dead nuts accuracy, nothing beats a long level from Stabila.

You can always attach the digital level to a bar if you really want the surface it indicates to be larger. I don't know that I would consider a bubble level a whole lot more accurate, if any at all. Unless you're talking about a machinist level and we're certainly not.

If I were to say they have a weakness, I would complain a little about the software is zero which they attempt to achieve. When you place them on an object that is very close to level, they are willing to ignore 1/100 of a degree or two of precision in order to show you zero. Does it really matter? It's hard to say, but I do know you can move them ever so slightly when they are close to zero and they won't register a change, but if they are at an angle, the most infinitesimal movement registers a change of a hundredth of a degree or so. There is a little hysteresis when close to zero, we are talking about very little change though. It probably amounts to .030 over 3 ft.

BugHunter wrote: Does it really matter? It's hard to say, but I do know you can move them ever so slightly when they are close to zero and they won't register a change, but if they are at an angle, the most infinitesimal movement registers a change of a hundredth of a degree or so. There is a little hysteresis when close to zero, we are talking about very little change though. It probably amounts to .030 over 3 ft.

I'd bet that they intentionally build in that tiny hysteresis near zero essentially so the thing does not drive the user crazy.

I can't imagine that it could ever matter for the vast majority of the things most would be doing, and certainly anything someone might be welding on. If I did the math correctly, 0.01 Degrees is 0.00628" over 3 feet.

I would seriously question if one of those small levels is even truly accurate to that small a measurement, even though they display it. If you look at the link in posted earlier, they spec those as accurate to +/- 0.2 degrees. The second digit after the decimal point is really not useful as a value, but it does tell you if you are going in the right direction as you adjust. And 0.2 degrees is plenty close for the vast majority of users and likely closer than you can get watching a bubble in a tube. If you need to get closer than that, you need a different tool.

A place I worked at used to buy digital levels that were certified to accurately resolve to 0.01 degrees and were accurate to 0.05 degrees, but they cost over 400 bucks. The application required that level of accuracy and thus the cost. They were like these:

https://www.penntoolco.com/spi-tronic-p ... A8QAvD_BwE

All that said, those little digital levels are excellent tools for 30 bucks or so. Super useful.

clavius wrote:I'd bet that they intentionally build in that tiny hysteresis near zero essentially so the thing does not drive the user crazy.

That's what I figured too, but it is a little annoying when you're making a change near 0 and it doesn't register like it will when it's at an angle. I wish there was a way to turn that off.

I can't imagine that it could ever matter for the vast majority of the things most would be doing, and certainly anything someone might be welding on. If I did the math correctly, 0.01 Degrees is 0.00628" over 3 feet.

Yea, it's not a whole lot. 5.00 deg is the same as one minute on a clock face. 0.01 then ain't very much.

I would seriously question if one of those small levels is even truly accurate to that small a measurement, even though they display it. If you look at the link in posted earlier, they spec those as accurate to +/- 0.2 degrees. The second digit after the decimal point is really not useful as a value, but it does tell you if you are going in the right direction as you adjust. And 0.2 degrees is plenty close for the vast majority of users and likely closer than you can get watching a bubble in a tube. If you need to get closer than that, you need a different tool.

A place I worked at used to buy digital levels that were certified to accurately resolve to 0.01 degrees and were accurate to 0.05 degrees, but they cost over 400 bucks. The application required that level of accuracy and thus the cost. They were like these:

https://www.penntoolco.com/spi-tronic-p ... A8QAvD_BwE

All that said, those little digital levels are excellent tools for 30 bucks or so. Super useful.

All the digital levels seem to have more 'resolution' than 'accuracy', and that's fair enough. Can you imagine what standards you'd need to have to calibrate at the levels these things resolve... It would be interesting.

That looks like a pretty nice gizmo linked above. Not sure I need that sort of instrument, but I'd be tempted to buy one!
I have a Starrett level, one of these. https://www.starrett.com/metrology/prod ... -6%20W~SLC They are considerably more accurate than most other bubble levels.

What really impresses me is the laser levels. I have a Bosch 3 plane bluetooth laser level. That thing is amazing. I use it for construction and remodeling around the house. When you consider you only need get them within a couple degrees of level for them to automatically correct to within 3/32" over 30', that's pretty impressive. .093" over 30'

I have one like this except mine is the bluetooth version. https://www.cpooutlets.com/bosch-gll3-3 ... -330c.html

I have one of those Starrett 98's as well but don't let it get anywhere near my welding table!

Yeah, those SPI digital levels are really nice and while I also want one almost nothing I do really warrants the expense. But I still want one. I understand.

I have a difficult time picturing the process used to develop a super high accuracy standard for testing levels. That sort of metrology stuff is fascinating to me, I don't pretend to have any deep understanding of it all. The more precise you try to get, the more things there are that can mess up your tests and that you have to account for.

I like your analogy for 5 degrees being one minute on a clock face, great way to visualize that. Not so useful for people that grew up with digital clocks (!) but useful for some of the "older" folks...

I have been eyeing one of those laser levels for a long time. I have a sort of OK old one that just shoots three spots, so you have to mark the spot and then turn the level. Still surprisingly accurate over a fair distance, just not very convenient. It's OK but not nearly as easy to use as the type you have. I expect that one day I won't be able to help myself and will just toss out my credit card.

You know Bosch makes a 4 in 1 angle measuring tool that's also a level, they sell them at Lowe's and Home Depot and they're not nearly as bad as that SPI price wise.

Check these out.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Bosch-Miter ... /207098854

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Bosch-Miter ... nd-reviews