Welding Tips and Tricks

In recent years I've started seeing or noticing anyway, a trend towards tons of hobbyists getting a welding fixture table.
Now I've never used one, but I can sure see the utility for short production run welding jobs.
But how the hell do the holes not get jacked up over time, some I've seen have hundreds of threaded holes in them even?
At work our table tops get more trashed than mine at home ever would, but it still seems like it would be a problem over time? Especially if you ever stick weld. I can see bored holes, maybe, but threaded just doesn't seem like it would ever make the cut over the long haul. Maybe I'm just to much of a slob to have nice things?

Just home shop stuff for me, but my welding table has always been tiny, and I'm sick of welding on the floor or saw horses.
I have a hydraulic motorcycle type lift with a wood top on it that has been my variable height work table for the last few year. I think I'm going to remove the wood, put a plate steel top on it and it will also become my welding table, and get rid of my little welding table to conserve some space.
So that upcoming project is what made me start thinking about fixture tables, I had planned on just welding on a plate top with no holes because I also use the table as a workbench. So between worrying about buggered up holes over time, and not wanting to lose little parts through the table I think I'll just stick with my solid plate top.

I guess it's not like I couldn't mag drill some holes after the fact if I change my mind.........

You guys that have switched from a smooth table to a fixture table for non-production type work, any regrets?
Do your fixture holes get jacked up?
I'm I missing the fixture table boat by stubbornly sticking to my old man ways and just using clamps or spotting my fixtures to my tables?

Splatter spray in the holes will keep them clean for a very long time. A drill will easily clean out the straight holes and a tap will easily clean out the tapped ones. If you're doing Mig or stick you should have a couple cans of splatter spray handy all the time.

I have a flat top that gets used a lot for other than welding. I have a smaller fixture table that sites on top of the flat top that gets used a LOT for welding and assembly of parts. The fixture table allows faster fit up and holds parts in position any where along the inner boundaries of the table via fixture table clamps.
Since I am the only employee, more care is used during any processes. Have a I gotten buggers in the holes and on top of the table...YEP. Have I cleaned it up ... immediately after build. I am finding that as I get older, it is more difficult to kick my ass for not cleaning up and taking care of equipment.
gramps

BugHunter wrote:Splatter spray in the holes will keep them clean for a very long time. A drill will easily clean out the straight holes and a tap will easily clean out the tapped ones. If you're doing Mig or stick you should have a couple cans of splatter spray handy all the time.

That makes sense.
I was thinking about it after I posted, some of the worst welding tables I've seen were in shops that had a few guys that probably had bad attitudes.
It only takes a little while to make a mess when a few people just don't care.
I guess I wouldn't have any issues in my low volume personal shop working alone, and if I do, I pretty much know who to blame.

BillE.Dee wrote:I have a flat top that gets used a lot for other than welding. I have a smaller fixture table that sites on top of the flat top that gets used a LOT for welding and assembly of parts. The fixture table allows faster fit up and holds parts in position any where along the inner boundaries of the table via fixture table clamps.
Since I am the only employee, more care is used during any processes. Have a I gotten buggers in the holes and on top of the table...YEP. Have I cleaned it up ... immediately after build. I am finding that as I get older, it is more difficult to kick my ass for not cleaning up and taking care of equipment.
gramps

You know, now that that you mention a sit on top fixture table, that might make sense for me.
My "welding" tables have never been just welding tables, I've never had a big enough shop that I could have just a dedicated welding table, they have always pulled double, triple, quadruple duty.
Space is the reason I've put up with having such a small table in my current shop, but I'm sick of it.
My lift table/work bench gets a lot of use, but joining forces and making it my lift table/work bench/welding table would save some precious floor space.

I like the add on fixture table idea, thanks.

If you are going to make a "fixture table" then you need to truly contemplate the tolerance of accuracy you require.

A 1/4" to 3/8" surface with holes in it does not yield serious accuracy. It is probably more than good for home hobbyist, DIYers, and the general fab world. And good enough by a long margin. But real fixture tables are incredibly precise, suited for production runs and repeatability, and faster, more accurate layout.

Threaded holes vs bored holes. I'm a fan of my table being bored for flexibility in setups, clamping, arrangements, etc. Threaded holes are great for small parts, or "jig plates". I use a 1" block of aluminum with 1/4-20 threaded holes laid atop my fixture table when I need smaller pieces, or to eliminate contamination from a carbon steel tabletop. But my table is stout. 3/4"x4'x'6' on 3x3x3/16 frame. It won't move without Hercules or a crane.

Surface maintenance is required for any type top, and surface prep/protection is also required, no matter the type. The bored 5/8" holes tend to have more than adequate slop in them for the clamps to slide in and out despite the grime and grit.

if you do use your hydraulic table as a base, be really certain you put down the riser lock when you use your table. You'll want the added rigidity and safety to prevent a hydraulic leak while you're working around it.

If you have the budget, Siegmund just release a helluva of a deal via their US Importer, Quantum. $2k gets you a 3x4 System 16 table and tooling in Imperial units. Limited to the first 200 respondents. Since it just got announced in Nov, you may still be in luck. Never has a Welder of Fabricator said, "I wish I hadn't bought a Siegmund table..." Whether you need the accuracy or not, it is still a helluva deal.

You won't regret getting a fixture table for any reason, I promise. At least not after the sticker shock wears off

If the table has threaded holes and you're concerned about boogering them up, maybe consider buying a box of short set screws to put in them as slightly below-flush "plugs" for when you are not using those particular holes. Should do a good job of keeping them in great shape long-term.

cj737 wrote:If you are going to make a "fixture table" then you need to truly contemplate the tolerance of accuracy you require.

A 1/4" to 3/8" surface with holes in it does not yield serious accuracy. It is probably more than good for home hobbyist, DIYers, and the general fab world. And good enough by a long margin. But real fixture tables are incredibly precise, suited for production runs and repeatability, and faster, more accurate layout.

Threaded holes vs bored holes. I'm a fan of my table being bored for flexibility in setups, clamping, arrangements, etc. Threaded holes are great for small parts, or "jig plates". I use a 1" block of aluminum with 1/4-20 threaded holes laid atop my fixture table when I need smaller pieces, or to eliminate contamination from a carbon steel tabletop. But my table is stout. 3/4"x4'x'6' on 3x3x3/16 frame. It won't move without Hercules or a crane.

Surface maintenance is required for any type top, and surface prep/protection is also required, no matter the type. The bored 5/8" holes tend to have more than adequate slop in them for the clamps to slide in and out despite the grime and grit.

if you do use your hydraulic table as a base, be really certain you put down the riser lock when you use your table. You'll want the added rigidity and safety to prevent a hydraulic leak while you're working around it.

If you have the budget, Siegmund just release a helluva of a deal via their US Importer, Quantum. $2k gets you a 3x4 System 16 table and tooling in Imperial units. Limited to the first 200 respondents. Since it just got announced in Nov, you may still be in luck. Never has a Welder of Fabricator said, "I wish I hadn't bought a Siegmund table..." Whether you need the accuracy or not, it is still a helluva deal.

You make a good point about the required accuracy.
For my use and what I have done in the past and probably ever will do I don't require a an accurate surface ground table.
I'm positive that whatever I end up with will be shop built, this is a convenience hobby item for me, it's not an investment so there will never be a return on the investment. The reality is I already have more stuff than I can justify, but I enjoy it and spend a lot of my free time in the shop. At least I'm not spending my money foolishly golfing or some other such reckless nonsense.

You are spot on about locking the lift table, it will drift.
I also understand that the lift table is not the idea base either, but I already have a lot of tools and equipment shoehorned into a relatively small space. This welding table project is just one of several projects I have planned to try and consolidate and reclaim some space.

Thanks

Spartan wrote:You won't regret getting a fixture table for any reason, I promise. At least not after the sticker shock wears off

If the table has threaded holes and you're concerned about boogering them up, maybe consider buying a box of short set screws to put in them as slightly below-flush "plugs" for when you are not using those particular holes. Should do a good job of keeping them in great shape long-term.

I thought about set screws too, but I'm lazy and bet once I took them out they'd never go back in again.

Sticker shock shouldn't be to bad, I'll be making my own. We have a couple mag drills at work and I can borrow one, so the tooling cost and the steel will be the only expense.

I think I'm now less concerned about screwing up holes, either bored or threaded.
I just need to decide if a table full of holes is more helpful than annoying since it will see use as a workbench too, a table full of holes makes for a bad place to rebuild something full of tiny components.

J.Pierce wrote: I just need to decide if a table full of holes is more helpful than annoying since it will see use as a workbench too, a table full of holes makes for a bad place to rebuild something full of tiny components.

I've thought of the same thing. Sometimes you need a workbench, and sometimes you'd rather have a nice table to weld something decently flat. Tough to decide when space is limited. Even tougher to decide if you want to buy something or build something.

Speaking of building, does anyone think there would be a market for a system to be able to easily/quickly drill 5/8" diameter, spaced-holes in plate/slats using a standard ½" drill?

Oscar wrote: Speaking of building, does anyone think there would be a market for a system to be able to easily/quickly drill 5/8" diameter, spaced-holes in plate/slats using a standard ½" drill?

Such "jigs" do exist already, though nobody has a patent on them.

My only caveat to you (others) is that drilling through 1/4" or great plate steel with a 1/2" drill will require at least 3 steps: center punch, pilot, final hole. Not everyone has a mag drill or the means to drill holes across the field of a large surface, but it is well worth the expense to at least rent a Mag drill and buy an annular cutter to make a single, machined hole. Even using your "jig" to do so as an alignment tool.

But then again, it goes back to accuracy, doesn't it? How accurate can a jig be if the reference edges are themselves accurate? On my current table, I used a large machinist scale and a laser to layout the grid pattern, then punched the centers, then used a Mag drill. Even with diligent effort, my holes are not "exact" Most are probably within a few thousandths of aligned, but a couple are obviously out. And it still functions for my requirements.

Just sayin'.

Oscar wrote:

J.Pierce wrote: I just need to decide if a table full of holes is more helpful than annoying since it will see use as a workbench too, a table full of holes makes for a bad place to rebuild something full of tiny components.

I've thought of the same thing. Sometimes you need a workbench, and sometimes you'd rather have a nice table to weld something decently flat. Tough to decide when space is limited. Even tougher to decide if you want to buy something or build something.

Speaking of building, does anyone think there would be a market for a system to be able to easily/quickly drill 5/8" diameter, spaced-holes in plate/slats using a standard ½" drill?

I think it's an interesting idea to have another alternative for drilling, but annular cutters are very unforgiving so it would have to be damn ridged.
I had kind of a half formed idea I had thought about building, but kinda stopped thinking about it because at the moment I can borrow a mag drill from work

I sure like making things myself, but drilling large holes in thick plate (and extremely accurately) is one of those things I'll gladly pay a premium for someone else to do.

cj737 wrote:

Oscar wrote: Speaking of building, does anyone think there would be a market for a system to be able to easily/quickly drill 5/8" diameter, spaced-holes in plate/slats using a standard ½" drill?

Such "jigs" do exist already, though nobody has a patent on them.

My only caveat to you (others) is that drilling through 1/4" or great plate steel with a 1/2" drill will require at least 3 steps: center punch, pilot, final hole. Not everyone has a mag drill or the means to drill holes across the field of a large surface, but it is well worth the expense to at least rent a Mag drill and buy an annular cutter to make a single, machined hole. Even using your "jig" to do so as an alignment tool.

But then again, it goes back to accuracy, doesn't it? How accurate can a jig be if the reference edges are themselves accurate? On my current table, I used a large machinist scale and a laser to layout the grid pattern, then punched the centers, then used a Mag drill. Even with diligent effort, my holes are not "exact" Most are probably within a few thousandths of aligned, but a couple are obviously out. And it still functions for my requirements.

Just sayin'.

My idea would circumvent the need to do that 3-step process altogether. To drill a 5/8" hole would require no more effort than drilling a 1/4" (or perhaps a 3/8") diameter hole. It would obviously be geared towards hobbyists and not professionals, with regards to the accuracy of the spacing.

Oscar wrote: My idea would circumvent the need to do that 3-step process altogether. To drill a 5/8" hole would require no more effort than drilling a 1/4" (or perhaps a 3/8") diameter hole. It would obviously be geared towards hobbyists and not professionals, with regards to the accuracy of the spacing.

I’m not sure how you can eliminate a center punch and a pilot, even for drilling a 1/4” hole through plate steel of any thickness greater than 1/4”. Especially with a twist drill bit. You sure aren’t going to do it with a 5/8” hole and a twist bit from a 1/2” drill. Well maybe you could, but you’d use up a bit about 3 holes.

You know, now that that you mention a sit on top fixture table, that might make sense for me.
My "welding" tables have never been just welding tables, I've never had a big enough shop that I could have just a dedicated welding table, they have always pulled double, triple, quadruple duty.
Space is the reason I've put up with having such a small table in my current shop, but I'm sick of it.
My lift table/work bench gets a lot of use, but joining forces and making it my lift table/work bench/welding table would save some precious floor space.

I like the add on fixture table idea, thanks.

I looked at the Crummy fixture plate as well as Certiflat and Texas Metal Works. Ended up ordering a Texas Metal Works table with the leg kit. May not weld up the legs right away and just throw it up on my bench (or horses) when I need to weld on it.https://texasmetalworks.com/product/wel ... t-30-x-48/

eelman308 wrote:I looked at the Crummy fixture plate as well as Certiflat and Texas Metal Works. Ended up ordering a Texas Metal Works table with the leg kit. May not weld up the legs right away and just throw it up on my bench (or horses) when I need to weld on it.https://texasmetalworks.com/product/wel ... t-30-x-48/

I really like those through-hole Crummy fixture plates, and the price seems quite reasonable. I just wish they had a version that was a bit larger. 14x16" is a little small for my needs. If they had one closer to 16x24" or so, I'd be all over it as an addition to my sit-down tables which are both smooth plate.

cj737 wrote:

Oscar wrote: My idea would circumvent the need to do that 3-step process altogether. To drill a 5/8" hole would require no more effort than drilling a 1/4" (or perhaps a 3/8") diameter hole. It would obviously be geared towards hobbyists and not professionals, with regards to the accuracy of the spacing.

I’m not sure how you can eliminate a center punch and a pilot, even for drilling a 1/4” hole through plate steel of any thickness greater than 1/4”. Especially with a twist drill bit. You sure aren’t going to do it with a 5/8” hole and a twist bit from a 1/2” drill. Well maybe you could, but you’d use up a bit about 3 holes.

Exactly, I haven't disclosed my idea for the drilling.

Oscar wrote:

cj737 wrote:

Oscar wrote: My idea would circumvent the need to do that 3-step process altogether. To drill a 5/8" hole would require no more effort than drilling a 1/4" (or perhaps a 3/8") diameter hole. It would obviously be geared towards hobbyists and not professionals, with regards to the accuracy of the spacing.

I’m not sure how you can eliminate a center punch and a pilot, even for drilling a 1/4” hole through plate steel of any thickness greater than 1/4”. Especially with a twist drill bit. You sure aren’t going to do it with a 5/8” hole and a twist bit from a 1/2” drill. Well maybe you could, but you’d use up a bit about 3 holes.

Exactly, I haven't disclosed my idea for the drilling.

Our friend Oscar has a tendency to confuse the "Tips and Tricks" forum for a "Patent Pending" forum

Just teasing you, Oscar!

Anyone with a milling machine could easily make a drill fixture that would allow even a person with a hand drill, to drill a very precise table. You would need a few drill bushings and some dowel pins on which to locate for subsequent holes. Perhaps even a reamer so you could make the holes you were locating with a little nicer. But I don't think it would be difficult to make a table almost as nice as anything you can buy.

If you didn't have your own Mill, you could easily go to a local machine shop and have them lay out the drill fixture for you. All they would need to know is how big a table you wanted to drill and how precise you wanted all your holes. What are the pilot dimensions of your drill bushings and what size locating pins do you want to use. An hour or two and they would have your fixture ready to rock and roll.

Spartan wrote:

eelman308 wrote:I looked at the Crummy fixture plate as well as Certiflat and Texas Metal Works. Ended up ordering a Texas Metal Works table with the leg kit. May not weld up the legs right away and just throw it up on my bench (or horses) when I need to weld on it.https://texasmetalworks.com/product/wel ... t-30-x-48/

I really like those through-hole Crummy fixture plates, and the price seems quite reasonable. I just wish they had a version that was a bit larger. 14x16" is a little small for my needs. If they had one closer to 16x24" or so, I'd be all over it as an addition to my sit-down tables which are both smooth plate.

Yup. It always comes back to size !! Since I had no table, I needed something a bit bigger than the Crummy fixture unit. It DOES look like a nice piece though. Maybe later for doing smaller jobs.

Spartan wrote:Our friend Oscar has a tendency to confuse the "Tips and Tricks" forum for a "Patent Pending" forum

Just teasing you, Oscar!

The hamster wheel is always turning. I'm actually thinking of applying for a patent for a speaker modification technology I developed that I don't think anyone is actually using. Would be awesome if I could sell this technology to high-end speaker building companies.

The problem with a solid topped welding table is if you want to clamp anything you are restricted to the outside edge. A table with 16mm or threaded holes allows you to put clamps where ever you want which is incredibly handy.

At my day job I use a solid top table and I’ve had times where a fixture table would be fantastic. It takes self discipline though with a fixture table. What I mean by that is don’t weld to the table and don’t abuse the table.