General welding questions that dont fit in TIG, MIG, Stick, or Certification etc.
nathan
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I got a little burn MIGging some aluminum on Thursday. My mom (a nurse) says it's a 3rd degree burn, as it didn't hurt on Thursday or Friday. It hurt like hell today. Anyways, I got it on my support hand, while wearing heavy MIG gloves and a thermal shield on my support hand. Burned a hole right in it onto my hand. :oops:

After that I put an unrolled TIG Finger over it, put a thin leather glove over that, put the large holy MIG glove over that, and stuffed a rolled TIG Finger in the hole. The burn got way worse and turned into the thing on my hand.

How do I keep this from hapening again? What are your heat prevention techniques?
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nathan
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P.S. I know I was being an idiot, I just had to run the beads continuous down the joint with as little stopping as possible.
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Hey mate,

The problem with things that keep heat out, is they also keep heat in once its in. With Mig, if you move your guide hand back so that is is holding the plastic instead of the metal shroud, that short distance is enough to stop MOST radiant heat burns.

Also on continuous welding, When you do stop, take your glove off and allow the heat to dissipate, It only takes a moment and stops the heat building up and up untill you get a burn....

Mick
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Sometimes burns are unavoidable. My fingers are a testament to what can happen.
I found that the Aloe Vera plant makes fantastic bandages for quick relief and healing.
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nathan
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Thanks, Mick! I will give that a try Monday. Guess it's kinda common sense, but I liked the support being just behind the MIG nozzle.

WerkSpace, ouch! How'd you do that one?
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That looks like you got sidetracked for a moment, then grabbed a freshly welded part bare-handed.

Done that before... :oops:

If you've ever wnted to commit a crime, now's the time... It'll be hard to get your fingerprints for a bit... ;)

Steve S
noddybrian
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wow - I never managed that - had some bad radiation burn on arms and neck from welding inside things though & some nasty down the arm stuff from overhead & gouging - hands usually it's picking up something that I should know was hot ! no finger prints just hard shiny skin & a nasty smell!
So this begs the question - we all bought at least one Tig finger ( to help fund the guru's exotic lifestyle ! or because it would turn us into like a Tig Jedi master ! ) so if this material is so good why not make a whole glove of it ? or a composit glove with it used as needed ? I'm sure I've seen it used as protection on cables or pipework somewhere so the material should be fairly easy to source - on a side note I for one would be very happy to see more than one size of Tig finger available as despite being on the slightly heavy side of average ! my fingers are extremely thin & bony so the Tig finger is way too big - it either slides around or falls off alot - it spends most of it's life sitting on top of the flow meter ! a smaller better fitting one would be great.
With modern materials surely there must be a glove that gives dexterity & heat insulation - I tried regular thin leather Tig gloves - I can hold everything just fine with them - but they do very little for heat protection - at the other end of the scale I have some vintage foundry gloves which are like two pairs of welding gloves inside each other with the outside covered in packing case staples - can barely move my hands with them on though picking up oxy cut pieces is fine. also there was one time I had them on trying to weld a broken piece laying under a Case 1150 loader & the foreman on the site kept on ranting at me like it was my fault it was broke down - eventually when I lost my sense of humour I discovered bits of his face can get lodged round the staples ! luckily this was before all the CCTV & DNA bullshit so I did'nt need to dump the gloves ! Never saw him again but I got some real odd looks when I had to go back there a while later.
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My finger burn was not welding related. I bought a new lawn mower (Ferrari red). It had a plastic top cover over the engine and looked fantastic. 6.5hp and cuts grass like a dream. ($100 on http://www.kijiji.ca) Anyway, I needed to lower the four wheels in order to adjust the grass cut height. I adjusted the two wheels on my side, but when I leaned over to adjust the two wheels on the opposite side, I rested my hand on the Ferrari red plastic engine cover.

My fingers dangled over the plastic cover and came into contact with the muffler. The odd thing was that the engine had only been running for about two minutes, then I noticed the grass cut height was too high. Who would have thought that a momentary contact with a small engine muffler could do so much damage?

I immediately got a glass of ice water and stuck my fingers into it. I continued to mow the lawn with my hand in a glass of ice water. When I was done doing the front and rear lawn maintenance, I found an Aloe Vera plant and cut off a few lengths to make bandages. I left the Aloe Vera plant attached to my fingers for a few days and then good as new. This plant really works well and takes the pain out of the equation. http://tipnut.com/how-to-heal-with-aloe ... ips-guide/
Alexa
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WerkSpace wrote:My finger burn was not welding related. I bought a new lawn mower (Ferrari red). It had a plastic top cover over the engine and looked fantastic. 6.5hp and cuts grass like a dream. ($100 on http://www.kijiji.ca) Anyway, I needed to lower the four wheels in order to adjust the grass cut height. I adjusted the two wheels on my side, but when I leaned over to adjust the two wheels on the opposite side, I rested my hand on the Ferrari red plastic engine cover.

My fingers dangled over the plastic cover and came into contact with the muffler. The odd thing was that the engine had only been running for about two minutes, then I noticed the grass cut height was too high. Who would have thought that a momentary contact with a small engine muffler could do so much damage?

I immediately got a glass of ice water and stuck my fingers into it. I continued to mow the lawn with my hand in a glass of ice water. When I was done doing the front and rear lawn maintenance, I found an Aloe Vera plant and cut off a few lengths to make bandages. I left the Aloe Vera plant attached to my fingers for a few days and then good as new. This plant really works well and takes the pain out of the equation. http://tipnut.com/how-to-heal-with-aloe ... ips-guide/
=====

WerkSpace.
Did it permanently alter your fingerprinting or did they grow back as before?
Tanks.
Alexa
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I can say with confidence, the prints grew back...

The burns were not that deep.

(Been there, done that.) :oops:

Steve S
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I'm fairly confident that the fingerprints have grown back to original (or CSIS would have brought me in for questioning). Because of my airline work, I have to apply for fingerprinting, retina scanning and background checks on a regular basis.
Alexa
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WerkSpace wrote:I'm fairly confident that the fingerprints have grown back to original (or CSIS would have brought me in for questioning). Because of my airline work, I have to apply for fingerprinting, retina scanning and background checks on a regular basis.
=====

WerkSpace.

Unfortunately welding could alter two of the three checks ... fingerprints and retina. Without it doubt ... it has altered our pasts.

The true security check ... would be to study his/her welding technique.

Tanks.
Alexa
TamJeff
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My boss is famous for picking up hot work from my table and for no other reason than to look at it. I typically set it on some scraps of aluminum bleacher tread to cool. I keep a bottle of that banana boat burn gel with aloe. Drawing a circle around it in red china marker with "HOT" does not always work. I have picked up things maybe 3 times in 25 years or so. He's done it half a dozen times in 5. I have found that I will freely and expletively ridicule 'myself' (by name) for doing stupid things more than once.

The last time my boss picked something up hot from my table, he was smarter about it. . .using my 'new' TIG gloves as pot holders. :roll:
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:lol:

My boss did that recently... Picked up a small pipe spool to inspect it, and immediately dropped it.

I said, "Hot?"

Ever the wit, he said, "No, it just doesn't take me long to inspect your work..." 8-)

Steve S
delraydella
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I was migging something a few months ago and rammed the very hot end of the wire into my finger! It hurt like @&^% for a few seconds, I dipped it in cold water and was back to welding in a few minutes. I must have a high pain threshold or something.

I have never worn gloves or any type of protective clothing when welding, it's just too cumbersome for me, and a few spark burns never bothered me that much.

That said, I do always have a tube of sunblock near my welders, even though I usually forget to put it on until after a few hours. A tube of aloe is also a good thing to have on hand.

Other Steve
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Alexa
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[quote="delraydella"] (...) I have never worn gloves or any type of protective clothing when welding, it's just too cumbersome for me, and a few spark burns never bothered me that much. (...)

=====

Delraydella.

Were you a machine shop worker before you started welding?

Alexa
TamJeff
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I quit buying gloves for the above mentioned abuses. Also, My boss, who really can't weld, at all, will get a wild hair because I make it look easy and decide he is going to weld something. He would then take my nice tig gloves and go to town. Thing is, he is missing part of his pointer from the top knuckle up. What then happens is it shrinks the tip of that finger on my glove to where it no longer fits. Seriously, I could not make that up!

Somehow, I rarely get any flash burn on my hands or on my arms for that matter. I weld in the ancient praying mantis style. :D
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delraydella
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Alexa,

I trained as a carpenter and worked in several shops as one. There was usually some metal work or welding to be done on some jobs but there was never anyone to do it, or no one was interested in doing it and it got jobbed out. So I started doing it and really enjoyed it. It also kept me from getting laid off many times when there was not enough work for the carpenters.

Other Steve
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michialt
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Honestly I am not so sure there are too many ways to avoid getting burns when welding, especially if its just a hobby for you. I'm sure the pros that weld all the time went through a period where they got burned frequently before they learned not to touch unprotected metal.

I know you mentioned you were using MIG on Aluminum. I have never welded Aluminum before, but will be learning soon. BUT you might take a look at going to Tig for most of your welding. I started learning to Mig Jan/Feb of this year. I started with Flux Core Wire Feed, then wend to CO2 Shielded solid fillers. (I used CO2 because I have a Kegerator, and I had a couple spare bottles of CO2). Anyway, with Mig I always had tons of splatter, and since starting with Mig I have been burned more by spatter than probably my entire life before Mig. Several times I considered giving up on learning Mig and tossing the thing into the trash. BUT I knew I needed to weld Aluminum at some point. Mig was a stepping stone for me though because I wanted to weld Stainless and Aluminum in the long run, and Mig was a cheap way to practice with electric welding.

I had the need for welding Stainless and Aluminum come up a little faster than I expected. I started watching videos online to pick up some tips on what equipment to buy and how to go about learning Tig. One thing I noticed in the videos was that there seemed to be absolutely no splatter. It also looked like you had 10 fold the control over the weld, and the final product looked a million times better than Mig, and even better than Oxy.

Couple weeks ago I bought a "cheap" Tig welder from a friend who bought it and never opened the box. I say "cheap" because I paid $400 for the welder (Lotus Tig200 200amp AC/DC). I put it in quotes because that $400 purchase cost me close to $1000 before I ever put a single bead down. Trust me before I put that first bead down I was having major buyers remorse, and asking myself WHY I was spending so much. (and in reality I really got off cheap in comparison because of my friend).

Anyway, what I am getting at is that so far in the 2 weeks (probably 30-40 combined inches of bead), I have not had a single splatter, or molten metal dripping etc. I still have the brain farts and grab hot metal with bare hands, and the last time in the shop I was leaning over a project trying to get a better view and rested my stomach on the end of a hot filler rod. But as for all the burns I was getting from Mig, I don't even see how I could get those burns with Tig. OH and to add to that, even my very first weld with Tig was 10 times better than my best ever weld with Mig. I've already taken the Mig welder off my welding cart and put it and it's supplies on a shelf where I hope never to see it again. I'll probably only hold onto it because it's easier to take that machine and flux core wire to my deer lease than it is to deal with all the stuff for Tig.

Until recently I never wore gloves or even welding glasses for Oxy/Ace. Just a pair of Oakley sun glasses for my eyes, and if I wasn't to hot a cotton t-shirt. Shorts or jeans made little difference. I've never gotten any really severe burns (meaning big burns sending me to the hospital), but my fingers have seen blisters countless times since age 14, tops of my feet an occasional burn. Chest and Arms occasional splash burns too.

I started learning to weld with Mig and Tig over the past 3 or 4 months, and I did make some changes. I won't touch a torch without gloves if the power supply is plugged into the wall. Don't care if the power is off or on. I started with the cheap bulky leather gloves from Harbor Freight, but 2 weeks ago when I bought my Tig welder I also bought a pair of Iron Flex Tig Gloves so I could have better feel/control of the torch. All I can say is night and day between cheap gloves and these gloves.

When I started Mig I bought a cheap auto darkening Harbor Freight helmet (10 shade max), and I really liked it in comparison to the fixed shade goggles that I was taught with. Again when I started Tig I was told I should look at a helmet that could darken to at least as 12 shade. I didn't buy top of the line, but I spent $120 on the helmet and on the drive home I was wondering if I had just been conned into something I didn't need. And again I was shocked by the helmet too. Even though I haven't used anything darker than a 10 so far, the visibility through this things is again night and day.

I've also added a cheap leather apron, but I probably wear it 50% of the time, but as soon as I solve the summer heat issues in my Garage I intend on wearing it more. I won't weld with anything with shorts anymore, either I wear jeans, of (don't laugh) Chef's Pants. I took a couple of culinary classes where I needed them, and they are comfortable to wear in the heat, and so far been loose enough that my legs haven't been burned, but not loose enough to be a safety issue.

I'm still wearing tennis shoes most of the time in the shop. I have a couple of pairs of leather boots (Harley riding boots, and Harley work boots) and honestly they both gave me a false sense of safety, and I have burned the tops of my feet in both of these boots while using the plasma cutter. I'm thinking about cutting one of the leather aprons and making leggings to see if that works better for me.

I don't have a welding jacket, and I rarely ever work in my shop with long sleeve shirts or jackets. Working on the farm as a kid I had more accidents where long sleeves snagged something, so I am still a little paranoid of anything on my arms. I fortunately I never lost any appendages in those accidents. But it's more an act of God that I didn't loose anything than I care to risk these days.

I guess to sum up this long book of a reply. I have always assumed that burns were just a part of welding, and expect them to happen. I keep basic first aid kits for burns, and just make sure I know where they are and how to treat the burns with them. These days though I am taking steps to minimize them where practical. If a $5 apron from Harbor Freight will keep that hot filler rod from burning my stomach (happed just last weekend when I didn't use the apron), then I'm going to wear it. I no longer consider gloves optional with any form of welding or plasma cutting. While I might still probably occasionally use just my Oakleys with Oxy/Ace, it won't be frequent, and in time I will retrain myself to never without the helmet.

But at age 44, I have come to appreciate having the use of all my appendages. I have learned that I am not immortal, and can't live through everything. And probably most of all I have learned to appreciate the years I have had, and to work towards making sure I have as many more years as possible.

I know accidents are a part of life, but as I get older I don't recover from them quite as fast as I used to so now instead of just letting them happen I try to think ahead enough to try to at least keep the injuries from those accidents to a minimum. And for some reason these days, the same injuries seem to hurt FAR FAR FAR more than they did 20 years ago...

OH, one other thing I have learned over the past few years. Some times it is true that "you get what you pay for." I usually go cheap with tools, especially when I am buying them specifically for a given project and may never use them again. Just this past year I have regularly been shown how much better good quality tools get the job done. Going forward I will lean more towards the best quality I can afford when I need something rather than going as cheap as possible just to get the job done.
nathan
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Tig wasn't practical for this application. My company bought the aluminum migger for speed and high quality. About 200 inches of bead per part. It just took too long. I'm just having to come to terms with the fact that aluminum migging is HOT.
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MillwrightRWG
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Need some kinda water cooled gloves
Got a lot of respect for full time welders it's a tuff job
My job requires a lot of welding but nothing like what a lot of you
Guys do
Flamingart
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I keep this stuff called "Water-Jel" in my shop. It comes in several sizes. It is essentially a specialized burn dressing designed to get you from an accident site to a hospital while minimizing tissue loss. The nice thing is, it works great for cooling off bad burns that you might not otherwise have to take to the hospital. I keep 4x4s and 6x6s around and they have been very helpful for the occasional burn. For instance once some slag dropped into my boot, I couldn't get my boot off any faster than I did- that burn would have been much worse without the stuff.
nathan
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Flamingart wrote:I keep this stuff called "Water-Jel" in my shop. It comes in several sizes. It is essentially a specialized burn dressing designed to get you from an accident site to a hospital while minimizing tissue loss. The nice thing is, it works great for cooling off bad burns that you might not otherwise have to take to the hospital. I keep 4x4s and 6x6s around and they have been very helpful for the occasional burn. For instance once some slag dropped into my boot, I couldn't get my boot off any faster than I did- that burn would have been much worse without the stuff.

Good idea! I'll invest some of my overtime into that stuff. is it like "second skin?" We used that stuff when I was a kid. I now have a bottle of aloe, but after the time that inspired this post, it's kinda burned into my mind (awesome pun intended) to hold farther back on the MIG gun. I'm more of a TIGger, so I like that control and closeness to the weld, so I was holding right behind the nozzle.
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