Which way to go: Mig/Tig or AC Tig/Plasma?

OzFlo · Sun Sep 27, 2015 10:42 am

Hi All,

I'm a beginner and will only ever be a hobbyist welder/backyard shed fabricator and I am contemplating (read that as researching whilst saving up my $$$) purchasing my first machine. Now whilst I appreciate the ideal situation is to have a dedicated unit for each process my better half would have a cow if I went ahead and bought 3 different machines (at least in the short term)!

So as I must compromise am I better off going for:

1. Pulsed Mig/DC Tig unit with spool gun for Ally or;
2. AC/DC Tig with Plasma cutter?

I know the plasma cutter is a nice to have option but I'm not sure just how much Aluminium I'll be wanting to weld in the future. I would like to have the flexibility to weld any material though and it could become the case that I find little projects that I'd like to do in Aluminium if I have the capability.

I'd appreciate your thoughts.

Flo

exnailpounder · Sun Sep 27, 2015 12:09 pm

Tough question. I got back into tig last year after 15 years because I thought it would expand my small repair/welding business by being able to do stainless and Alum but I am finding that there just isn't alot of alum to be repaired out there. I do a bit of stainless for homebrewers but other than that, 95% is just Mig welding on broken plows and trailers and such. I get very little call for tig work. Sometimes I tig something I could mig just to keep in practice. The plasma sure is nice to have but I did without it for a long time. Be like the rest of us and sneak buy all your goodies

My wife wouldn't know a plasma cutter from a lawn sprinkler so I get away with murder

ex framie · Sun Sep 27, 2015 1:31 pm

Flo,
I would get a decent mig, keep in mind you'll need around 250 amps to run a spoolgun. If you can get one with scratch start tig all the better.
You'll also need a dedicated 15 amp power point for it.
That will cover most of what you will do at home and at least with mild steel is a quicker process and easier to become proficient at.
You will need gas. Mossie will chime in shortly.
Do what most of us "homies" have done, expand by stealth, its better to ask for forgiveness than permission. Buy as you think you need to as you progress.
That old thing? Had it for years.
Then you'll need a decent compressor, bead blaster, shears, bender, bigger garage..................

MosquitoMoto · Sun Sep 27, 2015 6:19 pm

Hey Oz.

Fellow noob here, was facing similar needs. Had to sell a motorcycle to fund my machine so this was a BIG deal for me. Wanted to be able to weld everything, eventually, wanted plasma too.

I probably sound like a TokenTools sales guy but I'm not. Talk to Pete there, he is a great guy and very helpful. I wound up with one of his MetalMaster 215 Elite machines.

In brief...ACDC pulse TIG, plus stick, plus plasma. Less than 2K. And although it is 15 amp, I just run mine off an adapter plug I made. (Normal male household plug one end, female 15 amp the other. Don't tell my Mum!)

This machine is easy to use and does everything. For me, a great feature is the 'welding for dummies' menu that lets you select Ferrous Metal or Aluminium...it has presets for everything and you just start welding, all you have to do is set your amps.

So I can fix my aluminium motorcycle parts, weld thin steel, or drag out the stick welder and arc together some backyard fence supports. And the plasma? Trust me, you want the plasma. Plasma is a real eye-opener.

Hope this helps.

Kym

OzFlo · Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:03 am

exnailpounder wrote:Tough question. I got back into tig last year after 15 years because I thought it would expand my small repair/welding business by being able to do stainless and Alum but I am finding that there just isn't alot of alum to be repaired out there. I do a bit of stainless for homebrewers but other than that, 95% is just Mig welding on broken plows and trailers and such. I get very little call for tig work. Sometimes I tig something I could mig just to keep in practice. The plasma sure is nice to have but I did without it for a long time. Be like the rest of us and sneak buy all your goodies My wife wouldn't know a plasma cutter from a lawn sprinkler so I get away with murder

exnailpounder,

being a noob I have no real idea yet of what material I'll be mucking around with most but I want flexibility. As for the sneak buy thing.. I made the rookie error of announcing that I wanted to buy a machine.. the cat is well and truly out of the bag!

OzFlo · Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:08 am

ex framie wrote:Flo,
I would get a decent mig, keep in mind you'll need around 250 amps to run a spoolgun. If you can get one with scratch start tig all the better.
You'll also need a dedicated 15 amp power point for it.
That will cover most of what you will do at home and at least with mild steel is a quicker process and easier to become proficient at.
You will need gas. Mossie will chime in shortly.
Do what most of us "homies" have done, expand by stealth, its better to ask for forgiveness than permission. Buy as you think you need to as you progress.
That old thing? Had it for years.
Then you'll need a decent compressor, bead blaster, shears, bender, bigger garage..................

ex framie,

Your moniker doesn't refer to aviation at all does it? The only reason I ask is that I was a "framie" (aircraft maintenance engineer - airframe/engine) for 24 years..

And all good points you raise too.. I guess the only doubt I have is using a spool gun on thin ally.. but then again I'm not even sure how much of that I'll be wanting to weld anyway..

Edit: I should've looked at your bio first!

OzFlo · Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:11 am

MosquitoMoto wrote:Hey Oz.

Fellow noob here, was facing similar needs. Had to sell a motorcycle to fund my machine so this was a BIG deal for me. Wanted to be able to weld everything, eventually, wanted plasma too.

I probably sound like a TokenTools sales guy but I'm not. Talk to Pete there, he is a great guy and very helpful. I wound up with one of his MetalMaster 215 Elite machines.

In brief...ACDC pulse TIG, plus stick, plus plasma. Less than 2K. And although it is 15 amp, I just run mine off an adapter plug I made. (Normal male household plug one end, female 15 amp the other. Don't tell my Mum!)

This machine is easy to use and does everything. For me, a great feature is the 'welding for dummies' menu that lets you select Ferrous Metal or Aluminium...it has presets for everything and you just start welding, all you have to do is set your amps.

So I can fix my aluminium motorcycle parts, weld thin steel, or drag out the stick welder and arc together some backyard fence supports. And the plasma? Trust me, you want the plasma. Plasma is a real eye-opener.

Hope this helps.

Kym

Hi Kym,

Ha! That's one of the machines that I am considering!

MosquitoMoto · Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:50 am

OzFlo wrote:
MosquitoMoto wrote:Hey Oz.

Fellow noob here, was facing similar needs. Had to sell a motorcycle to fund my machine so this was a BIG deal for me. Wanted to be able to weld everything, eventually, wanted plasma too.

I probably sound like a TokenTools sales guy but I'm not. Talk to Pete there, he is a great guy and very helpful. I wound up with one of his MetalMaster 215 Elite machines.

In brief...ACDC pulse TIG, plus stick, plus plasma. Less than 2K. And although it is 15 amp, I just run mine off an adapter plug I made. (Normal male household plug one end, female 15 amp the other. Don't tell my Mum!)

This machine is easy to use and does everything. For me, a great feature is the 'welding for dummies' menu that lets you select Ferrous Metal or Aluminium...it has presets for everything and you just start welding, all you have to do is set your amps.

So I can fix my aluminium motorcycle parts, weld thin steel, or drag out the stick welder and arc together some backyard fence supports. And the plasma? Trust me, you want the plasma. Plasma is a real eye-opener.

Hope this helps.

Kym
Hi Kym,

Ha! That's one of the machines that I am considering!

Very good!

Zapped you a PM a moment ago. Haven't regretted my purchase for so much as a second. Love it. But of course be aware of what argon costs and how much you'll use.

Kym

OzFlo · Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:05 am

Hi Kym,

Yes it looks like a nice unit. I might have to give Pete a call..

Cheers,

Flo

WerkSpace · Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:06 am

If you are starting out, option #1 is your best bet.
MIG is easy to learn and you can make a few bucks with it.
Upgrade your equipment as the money starts flowing in.

OzFlo wrote:Hi All,

I'm a beginner and will only ever be a hobbyist welder/backyard shed fabricator and I am contemplating (read that as researching whilst saving up my $$$) purchasing my first machine. Now whilst I appreciate the ideal situation is to have a dedicated unit for each process my better half would have a cow if I went ahead and bought 3 different machines (at least in the short term)!

So as I must compromise am I better off going for:

1. Pulsed Mig/DC Tig unit with spool gun for Ally or;
2. AC/DC Tig with Plasma cutter?

I know the plasma cutter is a nice to have option but I'm not sure just how much Aluminium I'll be wanting to weld in the future. I would like to have the flexibility to weld any material though and it could become the case that I find little projects that I'd like to do in Aluminium if I have the capability.

I'd appreciate your thoughts.

Flo

ex framie · Mon Sep 28, 2015 6:11 pm

Your moniker doesn't refer to aviation at all does it? The only reason I ask is that I was a "framie" (aircraft maintenance engineer - airframe/engine) for 24 years..

Yep it does.
Did 32 years.
Redundancy and cancer shot the bum out of that enjoyable part of my life.
Now I look for a job I can do and in between do the stuff I want to do, camp, fish, ride motor cycles and "projects" also getting good at the domestic goddess role.

MosquitoMoto · Mon Sep 28, 2015 6:17 pm

A framie, eh?

Then you'd have the same curse my brother (BAE systems) has. Surrounded by military spec kit all his life, he struggles to find the type of quality kit and workmanship that he is used to when he steps out into civvy life.

Metals, fasteners...the domestic grade stuff just never seems to cut it! But it's a good ethos. I like to think some of his fussiness has rubbed off on me. Just a tiny bit...

Were you civilian or military? Either way, aircraft stuff is a step up in quality and standards in my humble experience.

Kym

ex framie · Mon Sep 28, 2015 6:29 pm

Military.
Airforce then Boeing.
I miss the trips, the guys I worked with and yeah the quality of tools and access to some really cool expensive stuff.
I particularly miss the gear they had in the metal bashers shops also what you could get built for a carton of beer by people who knew their craft. The aircraft welders were awe inspiring in what they could do.
All that makes me over critical to my own welds and metal bashing skills, still its fun to try.

OzFlo · Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:13 am

Kym and ex framie,

I was an Engine/Airframe LAME for Qantas in Sydney and echo your sentiments. Great guys, cool toys and the fact that you could get just about anything done if you knew the right person. It's not like that now..

And I agree with you Kym about the standards and quality.. tolerances measured in thousandths of an inch or fractions thereof.. "curse' is an apt description especially when builders work in plus or minus half an inch! (I now do building maintenance)

Good quality tools and equipment pays for itself in the long run. I have a lot of Snap-on tooling that I have had for over 20 years!

OzFlo · Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:17 am

WerkSpace wrote:If you are starting out, option #1 is your best bet.
MIG is easy to learn and you can make a few bucks with it.
Upgrade your equipment as the money starts flowing in.

Hi WerkSpace,

I like your thinking!

Cheers

Flo

soutthpaw · Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:28 am

Never buy a welding machine with built in plasma. They don't play well together and have the highest rate of problems of any machines.

Sent from my VK815 using Tapatalk

OzFlo · Wed Sep 30, 2015 7:41 am

soutthpaw did you learn this lesson the hard way?

MosquitoMoto · Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:22 am

soutthpaw wrote:Never buy a welding machine with built in plasma. They don't play well together and have the highest rate of problems of any machines.

Sent from my VK815 using Tapatalk

Damn.

How long before mine explodes, I wonder?

gotta love a full 5 year guarantee and a dealer who's always ready to back it up!

Kym

soutthpaw · Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:04 am

OzFlo wrote:soutthpaw did you learn this lesson the hard way?

No but I was told this in person, by the owner of a certain welding brand that it's by far their highest rate of failure of all their machines. I also have very good sources such as Jim Colt who has 30+ years working for Hypertherm that has explained exactly why it's such a problem. Been covered multiple times on welding web forum. As well as reading many "my plasma/welder broke threads" even Powcon welders (100 % USA made, and invented of inverter welder technology) tried it with the 225smc It was also their highest failure rate machine.
Basically trying to get the same components to handle high current low voltage welding and low current high voltage cutting puts extreme stress on the electrical/electronic components. Leads to premature failure. Ask yourself this: Why do some of the stand alone plasma or welders cost almost as much or more than the combo units with built in plasma?? If the combo units worked well why would they even sell seperate units?

Typed on tablet using Swype. Pls excuse Swypo's(Typo's)

OzFlo · Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:49 am

soutthpaw wrote: Ask yourself this: Why do some of the stand alone plasma or welders cost almost as much or more than the combo units with built in plasma?? If the combo units worked well why would they even sell seperate units?

Fair point..

OzFlo · Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:56 am

MosquitoMoto wrote: How long before mine explodes, I wonder? gotta love a full 5 year guarantee and a dealer who's always ready to back it up!

Yes you do! I guess the only drama is that if something does happen to go wrong with one part of the machine then you're up the creek whilst the unit is away for repairs.. But I suppose that is the double edged sword of owning a combo unit..

Flo

WerkSpace · Wed Sep 30, 2015 10:05 am

I would speculate that the "Combo" units were designed for the hobby enthusiast.
Industrial operations would have dedicated machines for each work station.

MosquitoMoto · Wed Sep 30, 2015 5:36 pm

OzFlo wrote:
MosquitoMoto wrote: How long before mine explodes, I wonder? gotta love a full 5 year guarantee and a dealer who's always ready to back it up!
Yes you do! I guess the only drama is that if something does happen to go wrong with one part of the machine then you're up the creek whilst the unit is away for repairs.. But I suppose that is the double edged sword of owning a combo unit..

Flo

Seriously, I'm not worried at all.

My own dealings with the seller of my machine have put me completely at ease. And as for waiting...I read one forum thread where a (rare) machine malfunction was dealt with by the delivery of a new machine...the next day!

As a hobbyist, not expecting any problems. And after an extended TIG session last night, still very happy.

Kym

OzFlo · Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:46 am

I ended up getting a Metalmaster Alupulse 210. The unit was second hand but had done very little welding..and was a good price..

I now realise that I completely suck at TIG welding but the journey has begun! I also now realise that those Euro style ergonomic #26 torches are big and cumbersome.. Bring on a smaller torch!

Anyway at least I am in the game

MosquitoMoto · Thu Dec 03, 2015 6:08 am

OzFlo wrote:I ended up getting a Metalmaster Alupulse 210. The unit was second hand but had done very little welding..and was a good price..

I now realise that I completely suck at TIG welding but the journey has begun! I also now realise that those Euro style ergonomic #26 torches are big and cumbersome.. Bring on a smaller torch!

Anyway at least I am in the game

Hey, you're exactly where I was not long ago. And I'm getting so good now that some of my welds I would almost own up to!

(Almost.)

Kym