Welding Tips and Tricks

I would like to add an acetylene rig to my workshop. I am not very interested in acetylene welding, but a torch can be useful for heating things up, brazing, and cutting. Problem: when I try to figure out what I should get, I am faced with 9 million choices. Light duty, medium duty...no idea what's appropriate. I would like to get a decent American product that won't crap out next year. I am hoping to avoid chaining things to the wall, so I thought I would look for a torch kit and a cart. I would want something fairly big so I would not be buying gas every month.

I have a bunch of credit card points that are going to expire, so I thought I'd buy new instead of waiting for a used deal. Can someone give me guidance on a good choice for all-around shop use? I have a MIG, a TIG, and a plasma cutter with a 7/8" severance capacity.

Got any hints?

Some dude on Youtube says he uses a Victor Performer for just about everything. Great. I looked it up. I found three different versions. Okay, back to Googling.

I've got a ProStar medium duty kit that's worked well for me. I don't use it a lot, but it's been a great rig. I've been told that ProStar is made by Victor for Praxair. Don't know for sure, but it's Victor compatible for tips.

I think I'll just pick something someone else had success with and see what happens.

Chips O'Toole wrote:....I am not very interested in acetylene welding....I would like to get a decent American product....

Based on your requirement to not/not OFW, strongly encourage you to consider Oxygen-Propane. Oxy-Pro is ideal in your situation, as you need the rig to preheat, cut, and shape. Oxy-Pro is less expensive to run over Oxy-Acet, safer to stow/operate, and easier to fill. Oxygen-Propane has been used for decades to sever steel 4+ in thick.

Although we prefer Oxy-Acet for Flame/Heat Straightening, Oxy-Pro does fine with the proper technique. Oxy-Acet also trumpfs Oxygen-Pro for Brazing due to the heat intensity and location of Acet's primary flame.

As far as manufacturers, we've ran lots of setups and still prefer the Smith/Miller torches. Solid construction and finish, three-tube design, SS ball valves. Supported by the majority of LWSs and online resources, lifetime warranty, and Made in USA.

Specifically recommend the Smith/Miller Medium Duty Oxygen-Propane Kit. The kit retails for ~ $400. With an extra Cutting Tip [MC40-0], Brazing Nozzle [MW411], and SafeMate FlashBack Arrestors/QDs from Western Enterprises the total cost of ownership should approach $550.

You can easily design/fabricate your own mobile cart, to include integration of a 50lb propane cylinder and 135CF Oxygen.

To support any follow-on discussions of flame "temperature" vs "heat capacity" in comparing/contrasting Propane and Acetylene, the images below show the adiabatic temps and heat concentration of commonly used oxy-fuel gases. Note, Propane has a higher stoicometric Oxygen requirement than Acetylene, and therefore Propane's consumption rate of Oxygen is roughly three times that of Acetylene. Thus, if you go will Propane definitely acquire a large O2 cylinder.

PM me if you have any specific questions regarding this setup.

//

Administrator: images captured in 'Square' format a la Instagram. CW rotational assistance appreciated.

Isn't welding with propane bad? I know it's ok for heating and cutting. Do you go through much more oxygen?

Poland308 wrote:Isn't welding with propane bad? I know it's ok for heating and cutting. Do you go through much more oxygen?

The OP stated that welding is not a requirement. Attempting to weld with Oxy-Pro is futile. You need Oxy-Acet to weld.

A truly Neutral flame with Oxy-Pro is not achievable. An Oxy-Pro's slight oxidizing/carburizing flames tends to inject surface contamination on the ferrous base metal. Acet's high primary flame temp is right where it needs to be relative to the base metal.

Stoiciometrically, we see the following reactions. Note, Acet more efficiently combines with Oxy and also produces an increased amount of CO2 over Pro.

Acetylene: 2*C2H2 + 5*O2 --> 4*CO2 + 2*H2O + HEAT

Propane: 1*C3H8 + 5*O2 --> 3*CO2 + 4*H2O + HEAT

It's been so long since I've used propane I couldn't remember for sure.

Another vote for oxy/propane.

Been using propane since the 90's.

A standard 20 lb tank lasts a very long time.

The tall skinny 10 lb fits on carts a little better.

Thanks for taking the trouble to provide all that information.

Is there any reason to get acetylene? Is there any type of welding that makes it worth it to have acetylene around?

You can't really weld with propane. It's great for heating and cutting.

I see now they have a thing called HGX propane which is nearly as hot as acetylene.

From what I've read on welding steel with oxy is that it's more than just the heat input. Acetylene and oxy burn in a way that acts like a shielding gas as you weld. But propane and oxy create a hydrogen rich environment that can make the welds prone to cracks.

I just like the idea of more heat, whether I can weld with it or not.

Tho I agree with dave that oxy/propane would fill 90% of shop needs, I think it would benefit you to start with oxy/acet. A bit hotter, and you can learn to weld with it, and have an easier time brazing.
Even if there's a mig, tig, stick, and plasma box, no shop is complete without a basic oxy torch in it, so versatile, a tool ya just need once you are used to having it.
Dont get fancy, just get a basic cutting torch, and a couple welding tips, and a rosebud if you feel adventurous.
If you do go the propane route, go ahead and make a propane forge burner, there are plans on iforgeiron, or I could point you the way, sure is nice to be able to get a chunk of iron red hot in a hurry in a simple brick forge, and reshape it.

I am somewhat drawn to acetylene for the same reason I got a Harley. I am interested in seeing what the old-fashioned technology is like. When I got my Harley, people said a Japanese V-twin or a Victory would be mechanically superior. No doubt about that, but you would never know what it was like to ride the real thing.

I've always said that "I've never regretted the money I spent on good tools", and I definitely feel that way about acetylene over propane. I've worked a couple places where oxy/propane was mandated by the beancounters. Everybody cussed it for being "cold", and we spent more time per cut than we would have with oxy/acetylene. To me, propane is a false economy, and especially in a home shop where you just might decide to weld or braze something. Obviously, from some of the other posts, some of the folks here prefer propane. That's the beauty of what we do -- there's always more than one way to get the job done.

ldbtx wrote:I've always said that "I've never regretted the money I spent on good tools", and I definitely feel that way about acetylene over propane. I've worked a couple places where oxy/propane was mandated by the beancounters. Everybody cussed it for being "cold", and we spent more time per cut than we would have with oxy/acetylene. To me, propane is a false economy, and especially in a home shop where you just might decide to weld or braze something. Obviously, from some of the other posts, some of the folks here prefer propane. That's the beauty of what we do -- there's always more than one way to get the job done.

As far as economy goes, there is a reason scrappers use propane instead of acetylene - that's when I first switched, right after my first tank of acetylene while scrapping.

A little demonstration from Harris torches:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1VrdLaMLqq

Screen shot from the video:

School me if I'm wrong, it seemed to me, no actual numbers, that it took a lot more oxy for cutting with propane than acet when I was using it. Granted, propane is way cheaper than acet, but I got a drive to town, then hopefully my lws (Valley hitch and Muffler!) has the oxy bottle I need (he will give me whatever size he has on hand, good guy), and when I averaged out the cost, a faster cut with acet cut my oxy use considerably, and I have a 250(?) and a 150cf oxy tanks. But then also have a 25 gallon tank of propane for forging work.
Just seems like propane/oxy burned way more oxy, and for the amount of cutting I do I prefered acet.

Poleframer wrote:School me if I'm wrong, it seemed to me, no actual numbers, that it took a lot more oxy for cutting with propane than acet when I was using it. Granted, propane is way cheaper than acet, but I got a drive to town, then hopefully my lws (Valley hitch and Muffler!) has the oxy bottle I need (he will give me whatever size he has on hand, good guy), and when I averaged out the cost, a faster cut with acet cut my oxy use considerably, and I have a 250(?) and a 150cf oxy tanks. But then also have a 25 gallon tank of propane for forging work.
Just seems like propane/oxy burned way more oxy, and for the amount of cutting I do I prefered acet.

Yes, oxygen use is higher, cost still works out in favor of propane.
In the above video and pic you'll see they were comparing the same cutting speed.
This is because the oxygen does the cutting, not the fuel gas.

Preference is a different issue however and we all like what we like

One point in favor of propane, if you run out of propane for yer BBQ, you got gas! Or vice versa.

Poleframer wrote:One point in favor of propane, if you run out of propane for yer BBQ, you got gas! Or vice versa.

Ha! I've done both of those

I replaced my old crazy kit with the Victor Medalist 350. I went with the heavy duty but I honestly would have been fine with the medium duty kit. I absolutely LOVE the handle design and the all around build of this kit. it is really comfortable and easy to work with. I've used to for everything but welding so far and it is a really great setup.. Especialy for the price! My .02...

Except for the regulator, can a regular oxy-acetylene set be used with propane? No need for welding, just heat and bend use.

Yes. Some of the tip sizes i.e. Oriface size, will over lap. But for most things that won't matter.