Welding Tips and Tricks

Whats the best metal cutting chop saw?
Should a man buy a abrasive saw or a cold cut/dry cut saw?
I here everybody saying cold cut saw are the cats meow
Positives and negatives.
Thanks
John

The big plus to an abrasive saw is economy. Initial cost, even for a good one, is relatively low, and the blade replacement is a cost spread out over time. The minuses are; The table markings aren't very accurate, requiring the use of layout tools to set the vice with any degree of accuracy, and the blade is so flexible (fiber-reinforced abrasive) that it's succeptible to gyroscopic precession for a 90* cut, and will walk to the outside of the angle for a mitre.

Cold-saws are the most accurate in the circular-saw group, but the trade-off is expense. Tables are usually very flat and square with well-marked vices, and some have an automatic feed-rate adjustment which will reduce blade-wander on miter cuts.

Dry-saws are a good compromise. A good one will have a table and vice as good as a cold-saw, reducing set-up time, but you will have to manually control cut speed, meaning you can't cut agressively on a miter without blade-walk and subsequent inaccuracy.

A horizontal band-saw (wet or dry) is also a good choice, as the blade tension greatly reduces "walk" in a miter cut.

Just some thoughts on the saws I've worked with over the years.

Steve S

One thing you didn't mention, Steve, is, "mess".

I have recently bought a portable band saw. Some of the members of this forum posted all sorts of interesting stands for these, and I became intrigued.

Two improvements in my set up for fabricating immediately emerged: 1) accuracy, but also, 2) less grit and mess.

Chop saws have been my go to tool for cutting tube and bar for years, and I clean up every 20 minutes because of these saws.

Now, with a band saw, I don't have a full industrial machine, but I have just a little of the benefits of greater accuracy and less workshop cleaning.

can we get a lot of guys to post pic's of their chop saws, and some cuts they make

Thanks

John

Here's my warrior

I'll get some pictures of some cuts, soon

I am thinking on getting the Dewalt Multi Cutter DW872 cold cut saw

Any reviews/opinions

http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.49686512 ... =1&pid=1.7

Thanks, John

John,

I've got to convince them to buy one at work. I've not used that one, but we've a DeWalt abrasive chop-saw that's seen daily hard use for five years, and only now needs new brushes. I noted the weakness of a wandering blade previously, but with five years' hard use, the table is no longer flat or quite square to the blade, and I'd think this saw would be a fine replacement/upgrade.

If you do buy, I'd love a review of it here.

Steve S

I'll try and pony up the dough

You'll for sure here my review...

Thanks, John

I have both. I have a Ridgid (Home Depot house brand) that I bought, because they have the best "heavy duty" cast iron base platform that I've found. I looked at dewalt's and Milwaukee's chop (abrasive) saws and thought the Ridgid was the sturdiest of them all. Then I bought a "cold saw" and thought Milwaukee's was the best.

I use both saws, but use the Ridgid abrasive chop saw 80% of the time for simple basic cuts. Why? Because it's so much cheaper to replace a $6-7 dollar abrasive blade than a $50++++ cold saw blade. I for one, NEVER use a bench grinder, angle grinder or abrasive saw within the confines of my garage. My chop saw sits on a table I made with casters. I always roll the cop saw out to the curb and cut mass quantities of steel. The cut carbon particles go out to the street, where I don't have to sweep them up when I'm done. Yes, I'm extremely LAZY!!! I used to just wheel the saw out to the driveway, but quickly learned in my younger days that the micro "dross" from a chop saw, turns to rust on concrete by the next morning due to moisture. Now, if I sweep it up after the end of the day, the chop saw is no problem.

On YouTube, there is an awesome "kid" that mass produces welding videos (one can easily figure out who that is). I've never understood why he continues to cut and cut and cut MASSIVE quantities of steel with his chop saw inside his shop. He piling up massive amounts of fine carbon dust all over his expensive welding machines. I for one, don't want my cooling fans on my welders to suck up all that crap over time. Hence the reason why I always roll out the chop saws outside.

Anyway, I think if one wants to save money, a chop saw is a mandatory " must" in everyone's shop. The cold saw can be forgone in my opinion, but that's just me.

Yes- but he has that Avani dust extractor thingy - & recently got a Northern Tool cold saw- I think if you grow up working on farm stuff you just get used to all that grinding debris - I did - but I can understand if working in a home garage it's a problem - not sure working outside & spraying it in the air to cover your neighbors cars etc is the answer though !

I never want to go back to a abrasive chop saw again. After a few cuts the wheel is to small to make it threw anything vary big. If your cutting anything very often or thicker material it'll still cost more with an abrasive machine due to how many wheels you'll go thru and the time it takes to buy and replace them. But it all comes down to budget and your cutting needs.

I've got a Ridgid abrasive, a Morse dry cut, and a Grizzly band saw. Each has their place, but my "go to" machine is hands down the dry cut. Fast, accurate, clean cut, low heat. The abrasive hasn't been off the shelf since I picked up the dry cut.

I was lucky enough to pick up a macc cold saw cheap at a auction a few years back
I love it , but the cost is big , for it to be efficient at cutting you need quite a few blades because you need to match your teeth count to the metal your cutting
For solid bar like 1 inch bright bar you need a 120 140 tooth , and for thin 2mm box section you need a 240
So it can get quite expensive.
Her is mine



And it cuts so traitor and true you can make up jigs to mount in the vice to do very tricky jobs like this where I needed to cut down bearing housing to get them to fit in a gearbox I was building.



Oh and another down side ,,,, they are crazy heavy, they are not a portable tool, like really not portable lol

I don't want to hijack the thread but has anbody used one of the Brobo cold saws?

Hey,

Yep, they are very common here in Aus, Cut up more than a few packs of steel with one when i was an apprentice.

Mick

While I agree on all the previously mentioned downsides to the common abrasive cut off saw - don't throw it out yet ! - although the dry cut is gaining in popularity in recent years it's only good for very soft material - ie mild or low carbon steel that has no form of heat treatment / hardening - the dry cut blades I've seen will blunt & stop cutting almost instantly if you try cutting anything else - this is OK if your only using known new material & have nothing else laying around - but those like myself that use or recycle other materials have to be careful - an innocent off cut of round bar may be a piece of axle shaft we used or EN24T from a backhoe pin - another favorite is flat stock that's a piece of leaf spring we used as a wear part on something - or a bucket cutting edge ! - stainless steel is another no-no ! - not to mention how much steel is now import cr#p despite coming from a known supplier - you can be cutting away up a sheet of plate no worries with an Evolution sailing through old bits of meted down ships plate & Lada's - then you find an inclusion of something hard & it's time to buy yet another blade !

Not seen one for a while - I wonder if anyone else used them - maybe the safety guys hated on them - but when I was an apprentice the place I worked had a Trennjaeger friction / hot tip saw - like the biggest chop saw you ever seen - about a 10hp 3phase motor with around a 30" saw blade running 3000 rpm - had teeth on but cut by getting the steel yellow on contact & throwing it ! - looked like a giant firework in use - the noise took some getting used to & it had no work clamp - just the pressure from the blade held the metal against a small fence - was a bit worrying at age 16 ! - cut like nothing else I've seen since - but left a nasty bur - much like you often get on new RHS.

I have a Rigid dry cut saw and a Milwaukee dry cut saw as well as a Milwaukee abrasive saw. I bought the Rigid dry cut saw 10 years ago and it is still going strong. This is the real rigid brand that you buy at industrial supply stores not home depot. I last used my abrasive saw about 10 years ago, not sure why I still have it. I picked up the Milwaukee saw used and it is in new condition I would not recommend buying this saw the vise is a piece of poop. The back stop for the vise is adjustable with a spring bolt and does not stay square. The spring bolt cannot be tightened down enough to stay square. The spring bolt is to allow quick angle adjustments, you just push the bolt down and it allows the back stop to be angled for mitre cuts. Long story short don't buy the Milwaukee dry cut you will be disappointed. Also the Milwaukee blades are junk maybe 50 cuts through 2" square 1/4 wall and then it needs resharpening. My Rigid saw was 800.00 and I believe they still are. The vise is excellent and the saw cuts very true. You can shave a 32nd off and it will stay square. I think I have bought pretty much every blade on the market and as much as I hate to say this the best ones seem to come from Taiwan The Rigid blade is very good but a little pricey, Dewalt blade not great, Morse and AGE are about as good as the Dewalt. I have been buying blades from my blade sharpener I can't remember the name on them but they are about $40 cheaper than the Rigid and last as long or longer. We use this saw every day and cut anything that can fit in it. SS will dull the blade so you have to go slow. We sharpen our blades probablly 10 times before they are garbaged. We usually garbage them as a result of operator error not clamping a piece tight enough and jamming and bending the blade. $35 to sharpen a blade $5 to replace a broken tooth. You should be able to get a couple hundred cuts in 4" square 3/16 wall before having to sharpen. 2" square .125 wall you should get easy a 1000 cuts. The Rigid saw is about $200 more than the others and in my opinion worth every penny. Also the Rigid saw is about 20# heavier than the others. We use our saw a lot it is way faster than a band saw. We only use our bandsaw for items to big to fit in the Dry cut. The Rigid saw and blade is also made in Taiwan. As Forrest Gump said That is all I have to say about that.

One thing I have to say is cold saws are nice, I even used one mounted on a machine why hydrological feed to cut tubing to length, one bad thing is if your cutting tubing and this is most of what I did, spend most the time dumping the coolant out of the tube. and the little pumps most of them have will break all to often I just ended up using a small fountain pump to put the coolant on the blade.

One thing is for sure they are way better than the other saws I have had to use, friction saw and also not sure if any one has used them but me the Evolution Rage saw.

I like horizontal band saws. They take a little longer to cut, but the cut is a lot cleaner than an abrasive saw. A lot quieter, too. I have a Kalamazoo 9Aw which has a 12 inch cut, so if I have to do a lot of lengths, I can load that up with as many pieces as it will take and cut them all at the same time. You could never do that with an abrasive cutter unless the wheel was massive.

Power hacksaws are another way to go, they can cut very cleanly

Other Steve

I'm waiting on the Morse so I bought the Milwaukee 8 inch while waiting. I find myself using it quite a bit but it's a pain for little stuff because you cant see.It's best to make the mark 2.5" longer and use the side of the deck as a guide. It's awesome on sheets of steel but I pulled out the abrasive to cut some 1x2 tubing yesterday.I like to see my line. I hope the Morse is a good piece. I hate buying without being able to handle it.
Anyone used a Jancy ? I saw one in the hardware the other day..almost $1000. Nice piece tho.

delraydella wrote:I like horizontal band saws. They take a little longer to cut, but the cut is a lot cleaner than an abrasive saw. A lot quieter, too. I have a Kalamazoo 9Aw which has a 12 inch cut, so if I have to do a lot of lengths, I can load that up with as many pieces as it will take and cut them all at the same time. You could never do that with an abrasive cutter unless the wheel was massive.

Power hacksaws are another way to go, they can cut very cleanly

Other Steve

I am with you a good band saw is the way to go, easy cut little slower but so clean and you can cut big I-beams with it as well

....and with a good quality bi-metal blade, some coolant and the right feed and speed a bandsaw blade will last through hundreds, if not thousands, of cuts.

Antorcha wrote:I'm waiting on the Morse so I bought the Milwaukee 8 inch while waiting. I find myself using it quite a bit but it's a pain for little stuff because you cant see.It's best to make the mark 2.5" longer and use the side of the deck as a guide. It's awesome on sheets of steel but I pulled out the abrasive to cut some 1x2 tubing yesterday.I like to see my line. I hope the Morse is a good piece. I hate buying without being able to handle it.
Anyone used a Jancy ? I saw one in the hardware the other day..almost $1000. Nice piece tho.

I bought a 14" Morse last year and it has been excellent. No regrets and I have yet to change or sharpen the blade (lots of cutting).

Yup. I've put some hours on the Morse now. I recommend it. Nice machine.

ive used the steel blade type (blades cost around £80 but can be sharpened loads of times) designed to run with cutting fluid...

Ive also used the abrasive type with blades at about £35..

The steel one is the way to go in my opinion...no blade flex... the vice is super sturdy