Welding Tips and Tricks

Tired of cutting with cutoff wheels that explode should I buy a chop saw or a little band saw ? What do y'all recommend ?

I'm interested to know what the wise ones on these forums have to say about this, too.

In the future I'll be doing 'lobster back' exhaust bend fabrication and will need to make multiple, clean cuts at precisely repeatable angles, sometimes in stainless. As the OP asked...which saw?

Chop saw seems about right, but before I spend the cash I'd love to hear some opinions.


Moz

I personally have owned three different brands of chop saws and think for rough cutting they're fine but they never cut anything true to square, nothing. For that reason I hate them and use them as my last option.

I have a porta-band with the Swage Off Road stand that I just bought that does just what I expected for free hand cutting.

If your shop has the real estate I say go with a decent horizontal band saw if you need things cut straight with consistency.

As to repeatable pie cuts in tubing I would look at the jig made for that from PRL Motorsports, real nice for use in a band saw.

Plenty of folks here have had discussions on the use of cold cut saws and you can search this sight for that, I have never used one but wouldn't mind trying one.

I find myself using either the porta-band or a Dewalt 6" cutoff more than anything else and can be very accurate if need be. Sawzalls have there place too and the cordless ones are very nice.

Len

Braehill wrote:I personally have owned three different brands of chop saws and think for rough cutting they're fine but they never cut anything true to square, nothing. For that reason I hate them and use them as my last option.

I have a porta-band with the Swage Off Road stand that I just bought that does just what I expected for free hand cutting.

If your shop has the real estate I say go with a decent horizontal band saw if you need things cut straight with consistency.

As to repeatable pie cuts in tubing I would look at the jig made for that from PRL Motorsports, real nice for use in a band saw.

Plenty of folks here have had discussions on the use of cold cut saws and you can search this sight for that, I have never used one but wouldn't mind trying one.

I find myself using either the porta-band or a Dewalt 6" cutoff more than anything else and can be very accurate if need be. Sawzalls have there place too and the cordless ones are very nice.

Len

Thanks Len.

I'm in Australia, so limited to what's local, but really appreciate your thoughts. Might do some looking around at cold cut saws....

Thanks again.

Moz

If you go with a band-saw, spend some coin, get a good one with coolant/lubricant.

My boss made the mistake of buying cheap. I was trying to get a good port-a-band, and he went "cheap bandsaw". I'm not happy. He bought a Grizzly Industrial Chinese made dry 4X6 bandsaw, and I've spent more time making it work than it would have taken to cut the parts with a port-a-band.

I do like the dry/cold saws. Users must be trained in "letting the tool do the work", or they'll destroy (very expensive) blades, but used right they cut very clean, pretty fast, and very accurate.

Steve S

Cheers Steve.

Cold saw sounds good. Very clean, very accurate...not actually even too fussed about the 'fast' bit as long as I get the clean and accurate!

Moz

DeepSouthWelder & MosquitoMoto:

DeepSouthWelder,
I have used quite a few different types of saws, for your application (and I don't have much to go by) I believe the portaband type saw might be the best choice. Pick up a Milwaukee 6230N Variable Speed (5 specific speeds: 1 - 5; 1=84, 2=168, 3=252, 4=336, 5=420 FPM) at $299 from Home Depot. Then pickup a Swag Off Road stand with a miter gauge so that you can have a small vertical band saw, turn one knob and the saw detaches from the Swag stand, ready for portable use. (http://www.swagoffroad.com) One great benefit about the portaband type saw is that the saw blade kerf is only 0.020", so very little material is wasted in the cut.

MosquitoMoto:
You seem to have a different requirement if you key on the words "clean cuts at precisely repeatable angles, sometimes in stainless". If you need true precision then a Cold Saw maybe your best choice. Cold Saws cut at very low speeds, with RPM's in the 27-108 RPM range with full flooding coolant from the on-board pump/sump. They are very expensive (that is why I don't own one) with a typical 14" saw selling for about $4,500. I have used a Doringer of this type, the clamping vice is made for extremely precise work, like a Kurt milling vice, and the saw leaves a milled edge without the need to deburr. When making angle cuts the saw has a miter head, allowing it to swivel while your work remains clamped. For a single phase saw the motor runs at 1700 RPM, while the saw blade runs at 54 RPM. Three phase motor saws can run at 27, 54 or 108 RPM. These saws are not portable, the weight of the Doringer saw is 710 LBs. The machine footprint if 58"H X 26"W X 36"L.

I currently own a 7"x12" Horizontal/Vertical band saw that I purchased from MSC Industrial. It weighs about 350 LBs, it has wheels so is somewhat portable. This saw can cut multiple sections of tubes stacked. You can set up the cut, start it and walk away while it continues to cut with force dictated by the valve on the hydraulic cylinder. It also has a pump/sump for full flooding coolant cuts as required. The entire blade assembly tilts to vertical, and a small steel table is supplied so the saw can be operated as a vertical band saw. This saw cost me about $970.

I also own a Milwaukee 6230N Variable Speed Portable Band Saw. I have this saw mounted on a Swag Off Road stand with a miter gauge, but also use it hand held if the need arises.

I still maintain an old Milwaukee Abrasive Chop Saw for cuts that do not require much accuracy, or require making cuts in a construction environment.

Wob

Wob-

Thanks for the tips. Here in Oz I'm seeing cold cut saws at the $700 to $3,000 range, but I doubt they are in the same quality league as the stuff you referenced.

From here I think I'll visit a few tool stores and see if I can see some demo cuts. Interested to know just how clean and accurate. Seeing some that claim 'no dressing of cut required' but it would have to be a damn clean cut before I'd just wade in with a TIG with no dressing or prep at all!

Moz

The dry saw is a different animal from the cold saw. It's literally dry, no coolant. The blades are very hard (drop one and it shatters), but they are more like a cabinet maker's miter saw than anything else I can think of. They make very clean, accurate, repeatable cuts, and the blades can be sharpened by a COMPETENT saw shop.

Here's an example, under $500 U.S.

http://www.amazon.com/Morse-CSM14MB-14- ... B000IHXOKI

Steve S

You told your boss that Grizzly was a decent saw if I recall correctly.

Otto Nobedder wrote:If you go with a band-saw, spend some coin, get a good one with coolant/lubricant.

My boss made the mistake of buying cheap. I was trying to get a good port-a-band, and he went "cheap bandsaw". I'm not happy. He bought a Grizzly Industrial Chinese made dry 4X6 bandsaw, and I've spent more time making it work than it would have taken to cut the parts with a port-a-band.

I do like the dry/cold saws. Users must be trained in "letting the tool do the work", or they'll destroy (very expensive) blades, but used right they cut very clean, pretty fast, and very accurate.

Steve S

I have an Evolution Rage4 7.25 " dry metal saw. $150.00 @ Sears, HD, Amazon, and elsewhere. Not an industrial saw but seems to do all I need for my hobby shop. They have bigger sizes and compound miter slide saws. Makes a clean cool cut. Mine runs 3000 rpm.

jlfxdwg wrote:You told your boss that Grizzly was a decent saw if I recall correctly.

Otto Nobedder wrote:If you go with a band-saw, spend some coin, get a good one with coolant/lubricant.

My boss made the mistake of buying cheap. I was trying to get a good port-a-band, and he went "cheap bandsaw". I'm not happy. He bought a Grizzly Industrial Chinese made dry 4X6 bandsaw, and I've spent more time making it work than it would have taken to cut the parts with a port-a-band.

I do like the dry/cold saws. Users must be trained in "letting the tool do the work", or they'll destroy (very expensive) blades, but used right they cut very clean, pretty fast, and very accurate.

Steve S

I did say that Grizzly has good tools. I didn't realize they were importing cheap Chinese tools for their low-end stuff.

I also didn't see where that picture in the catalog said, "actual size."

I'll get that damn saw dialed in , if it kills me! There's a topic here (under "Metal cutting", I'm sure), that discusses turning a basic harbor fright (intentionally misspelled) horizontal bandsaw into a reliable tool. I'll dig it up.

Welcome to our li'l community!

Steve S

Thanks for all the information guys a band saw it is.

Otto Nobedder wrote: There's a topic here (under "Metal cutting", I'm sure), that discusses turning a basic harbor fright (intentionally misspelled) horizontal bandsaw into a reliable tool. I'll dig it up.
Steve S

I'd be interested in seeing that. I saw their little saw was only a couple hundred bucks last time I was there. If it could be made to work well, that would be awesome.

it is all in the fine tuning, spend a day to get it aligned

http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=8392.0

I am a huge fan of the Ellis horizontal band saw. Easy to maintain, wet and dry. The last saw you will need to buy!

Here's the topic I was hunting... Turns out it was "Northern Tool", not Harbor Freight, but there's a link in one of the posts I want to study.

http://forum.weldingtipsandtricks.com/v ... saw#p46898

Here's the link...
https://wiki.artisansasylum.com/images/ ... _rev-1.pdf

Steve S

Nice! Thanks for the PDF. I did the same "band saw" search on the forum and saw the topic you posted. I think I need a band saw. They make life easier. If I got the HF one, it would probably pay for itself on the first job, justifying a makeover. You people give me too many ideas of ways to spend my money - usually before I even have it!

My steel Supplier has an Ellis and is in love with it, I own a cheaper horizontal bandsaw and a Baleigh coldsaw. The cold saw works well but is a pain to keep clean and requires a wide range of different blades ($150 and up) for cutting different wall thicknesses and material type. Bandsaws seem to have a much larger capacity than most cold saws. The model I bought was about $2200 5 years back and is 220v single phase, most cold saws are 3 phase. As far as port-a-bands I can never get straight cut with them especially on big tubing.

I have a Dewalt abrasive cut off, a Scotchman cold saw and a cheapy 4x6 band saw, if space wasn't a problem I would sell what I have a get a Ellis. For what I mostly do I don't need a milled finish cut although a smooth straight cut is nice, a good band saw is hard to beat, I think you will be happy with your choice. I like the Ellis because it doesn't use coolant.

YooT00B is full of tune up the HF bandsaw videos. Try it sometime
That said:with My Makita dry 12 or Morse on bigger stuff my helper and I will be home before you get the paint gun out. Accuracy of squareness with either machine would be measured with a feeler gauge. I can cut 10 pieces to one cut against a bandsaw unless it's set up with the stock feeding through leveled rollers and a GOOD feed stop and vice.Putting a dry saw against a bandsaw is like competing against a plasma cutter with a jigsaw.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1DYRWDVquo

I've taken my focus off the pie-cut exhaust stuff for awhile and I'm cutting a lot of aluminium now...tube and plate.

I happened across a huge old relic of a band saw for the right price - free - and I've spent some time refurbishing it and setting it up. New urethane tyres, new belt and blades. All it needed was some love.

It's now my go-to machine for aluminium, particularly where complex shapes need to be cut out of plate that's up to 6mm thick. Using it is child's play and I can cut out shapes that, when done, need a minimum of edge finishing.

I just need to fabricate a nice, adjustable fence for it now and then straight cuts should be a breeze, too.



Kym

I'm in a similar situation right now. I'm either going to be buying an Evolution Rage 2 or save a little longer for a Milwaukee PortaBand. The Rage2 has speed and accuracy on its side. But I like how the portaband can be used on so much and used vertically should the need arise. I think im going to go with the Rage2 for now and eventually get myself a portaband... But im not sure. Advise is appreciated, thanks.

Otto Nobedder wrote:Here's the topic I was hunting... Turns out it was "Northern Tool", not Harbor Freight, but there's a link in one of the posts I want to study.

Here's the link...
https://wiki.artisansasylum.com/images/ ... _rev-1.pdf

Steve S

Applies to any bandsaw,have used it from HF to Wells etc,works 1st time setup takes time,worth it in blade life and straight cuts

Something to watch out for you guys cutting thin materials.... Tooth pitching.

On thin stuff standard blades can be too coarse resulting in rough cuts or damage to the blades. Expensive after a while.
On a cold saw this can cause chattering in the blade, not only hard on the blade, but the brass gearboxes don't like it too much either.
So when buying stuff, be aware of the correct blade for your work.