4G plate issues

RocketSurgeon · Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:10 pm

It's been a while since I've posted on the forum. (OT at work, AWS school, new house, etc.)

I am on 4G plate at school and it is kicking my.....
My root is good as well as the hot pass. It's when I get to the stringers that I (and I know it's me) have issues.
Here's the set up:
5/8" plate w/37.5 degree V
1/8" 6010 root
3/32" 7018 hot pass and stringers
100-110A

Here's where everything goes south:
After the hot pass, I start my fill stringers. I've tried dragging, whipping and weaving. I've tried positioning myself in different places and angles to see the puddle better (I'm 6'3" and the test tree is not). No matter what, they all look like.....

I know nothing replaces practice AND I'm just now learning, but this has me aggravated. I picked up on the other three so well and fast (I've passed the bend tests for 1, 2 and 3G), but this one has me pulling my hair out. We've been in class for only 9-10 weeks with 25 more to go.

ANY advice and tips would be greatly appreciated.

MinnesotaDave · Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:07 pm

Are you keeping the 7018 pushed right up in there? And rod angle about straight in?

Common problem is to forget to continuously lift your hand - when the weld is flat, gravity helps your hand drop naturally - for overhead keep pushing up.

100 amps and keep the flux lightly dragging on the plate should get it done - but not until you practice overhead on scrap until it feels natural. Then try the plate test.

Good luck and have fun

Edit: I forgot, never whip 7018, straight drag or weave only.

RocketSurgeon · Tue Jul 14, 2015 3:05 pm

MinnesotaDave wrote:Are you keeping the 7018 pushed right up in there? And rod angle about straight in?

Common problem is to forget to continuously lift your hand - when the weld is flat, gravity helps your hand drop naturally - for overhead keep pushing up.

100 amps and keep the flux lightly dragging on the plate should get it done - but not until you practice overhead on scrap until it feels natural. Then try the plate test.

Good luck and have fun

Edit: I forgot, never whip 7018, straight drag or weave only.

I do keep a short arc w/o sticking. No more than a 1/16". I keep a slight pull angle or straight rod. Never pushing the puddle.

I haven't tried dragging the flux though. I have class tonight and will try that.

Looking straight down the groove (pulling the puddle towards me) seems more comfortable than across.

Thanks for the tips, Dave.

Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:09 pm

Chris,

I prefer a very slight "push" on overhead stick. 5* for a groove, 15* for a fillet. (Estimates... It's been years since I thought about it.) Yes, with enough amps that the flux is dragging a bit.

Try it all, and you'll find what works for you.

Steve S

RocketSurgeon · Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:17 pm

The first thing I did tonight was make myself comfortable in order to be propped up and steady. I sat on a 5 gallon bucket and lowered the clamp arm to a reachable/workable level. I could see the whole groove and bead. I ran the root and hot pass without any problem. I ran two fillet passes that were 10x better than the grapes I was making before. My two stringers were clearer to me from the position on the bucket and just came to me easier.
Tomorrow night I'll sit my 270lbs. behind on that bucket and finish the stringer caps.

kripl88 · Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:36 am

Im sure you do the same thing but what i learned always helps on heavier tests like that is to let it cool down before capping. especially doing overhead cuz it will try and fall real quick

AKweldshop · Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:59 pm

Hey, Rocket,
Have you watched Jody's video on 4G 7018?

If not, it should help you a ton. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gdm23KLTEW0

RocketSurgeon · Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:29 am

AKweldshop wrote:Hey, Rocket,
Have you watched Jody's video on 4G 7018?

If not, it should help you a ton. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gdm23KLTEW0

I did. It helped. I found a way to steady my hand: a five gallon bucket.

RocketSurgeon · Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:44 am

Update:

I've taken everyone's tips and advice and used them to my advantage and betterment. If I can make one more good weld, my instructor will put it on the bender.
Then, he said, I have to make another 3G and 4G for bend tests to be sure I have the technique down. If so, I can move on to Flux core and MIG.

Thanks everyone for your help.

Boomer63 · Mon Jul 20, 2015 1:05 pm

Rocket - How did it work out for you? In the end, it seems like you needed to get comfortable.

RocketSurgeon · Mon Jul 20, 2015 3:03 pm

Apparently, those cheap 5gal buckets from the local home improvement stores come in handy...for setting your keester on in order to steady your hands while running an overhead bead.

Seriously.

I sit on one, which brings me low enough to prop my left arm on the work table and steady my right hand. I'm 6'3" and the arm only goes to my chin. That made it awkward to see the weld.

Also, to watch my rate down the bead, I skewed the coupon slightly so I can pace the bead as I lay it in the groove.

I re-watched Jody's overhead 7018 video to get the right idea of how he manipulated the rod down the groove. Keeping a short arc, slight pull angle and keeping up with the rod as it burns shorter.

It just came to me after I put all of that together.

RocketSurgeon · Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:06 pm

My instructor wanted me to finish my last 4G tonight, so he could bend test it.

I PASSED! Both sides!

He immediately put me on the qualifying tests: 2, 3 and 4G on .375 plate.

Feeling REALLY good.

Boomer63 · Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:19 am

The two most significant advances in construction and metal trades since WWII would be grey tape and five gallon plastic buckets.

RocketSurgeon · Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:51 am

Exactly!

plain ol Bill · Tue Jul 21, 2015 6:54 pm

Once you pass the test's then you can start to work on becoming a welder. It feels good to make the test doesn't it? Now ask yourself if you can make the same weld with it tacked under the bench, up next to the wall, with not enough overhead clearance to be able to roll over.

RocketSurgeon · Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:35 pm

plain ol Bill wrote:Once you pass the test's then you can start to work on becoming a welder. It feels good to make the test doesn't it? Now ask yourself if you can make the same weld with it tacked under the bench, up next to the wall, with not enough overhead clearance to be able to roll over.

More tests before the course is over. 5G & 6G pipe, TIG, Al, etc.

LtBadd · Wed Jul 22, 2015 7:40 pm

RocketSurgeon wrote:My instructor wanted me to finish my last 4G tonight, so he could bend test it.

I PASSED! Both sides!

He immediately put me on the qualifying tests: 2, 3 and 4G on .375 plate.

Feeling REALLY good.

Congrats Chris

Richard

RocketSurgeon · Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:55 pm

I finished the 2, 3, and 4G plates and cut out samples.
I passed those too!

On to MIG!

Boomer63 · Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:09 am

RocketSurgeon wrote:I finished the 2, 3, and 4G plates and cut out samples.
I passed those too!

On to MIG!

You will do fine at MIG! Remember, don't take it too lightly! Hold the toes of the weld when in the V-Groove. Wait for the puddle to fill in and completely wet out before you move!

RocketSurgeon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:15 pm

It's been more than a week on MIG and I just have this to say:

4G position plate (open root) is a pain. Not as much as using Bernard guns in 4G position. They are HEAVY! (ow ow ow)

Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:32 pm

Chris,

Do they let you keep your coupons after they're bent?

It would be fun to etch them, post-bend...

Steve S

RocketSurgeon · Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:50 pm

I have all of my bend test straps. I keep forgetting to bring them home and etch them. I've been real curious to see how well I'm penetrating.

RocketSurgeon · Wed Aug 12, 2015 10:16 pm

Monday, I get to test on 2, 3 and 4G MIG!