[Jim911]

Hi, I am new too welding 2 weeks. My neighbor use to weld for a living he let me borrow his lincoln stick welding machine. He taught me a little of the basics . I have watched a fair amount of videos youtube and read about stick welding some . On the new metal 3 mm thick I can lay down text book welds almost everytime with 7014 and 7018 flat that is no other angel. But when I try to weld the new metal with the old I seem to easily burn holes in the old car frame which is also 3mm thick. It doesnt seem to be able to tolerate the heat especially with the E7018 so I have been using the E7014 which doesn t burn holes as easily but have read 7014 doesnt penetrate as well as 7018 even though box says the strenght is 70000 same as 7018.Instead of running beads of welds I have found doesnt burn through old car frame as much actually almost none if I keep the welds really short like 1 inch or so.Any help would be greatly appreciated. Would prefer the 7018 esp because I get a slag hes whereas the 7018 doesnt do that at all. BTW welding is really a lot of fun but stick welding is definetly an art form. Thanks again for any advise . Jim

[Homemade]

Welcome to stick welding. The car frame might be a different grade of steel then the plate your welding to the car. That might be why your getting the burn threw. Even though the tinsel strength of each rod is the same, the 7018 will penetrate deeper vs the 7014 will lay “on” the steel. If your having burn threw problems, then you need to reduce your amp, increase your travel speed, use a smaller diameter rod, or use 7014.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Aux]

Pictures would help. The welds that are working, Are you welding two pieces of 3mm metal together or just running beads on a plate? Doing a butt weld is a little trickier than running surface beads on a plate especially if the fit up isn't perfect. Also, you said the flat welds are coming out well. Are you welding onto the car in the flat position?

[Jim911]

Thanks for your advise guys. I cant figure out how to upload photos to this forum any help would be appreciated. I just realized last night the rear frame rail is only ab 1-2 mm thick thats where Im geting most of the burn through. I shouldnt have said my welds were perfect but on a flat piece of steel with 7018 they look descent and I seem to get enought penetration, on the actual car frame with the fillet welds and lap welds not so much . I tried 6011 at ab 40 amps last night as sudgested by a welder on youtube but even that burned through the thinner metal of car frame.7014 seems to be the most forgiving esp. If I just do a bunch of spot welds till they all come together as one contigious weld. Arc welding isnt as easy as it looks.If I can figure out how to upload will post pictures. My sons friend came over after I posted my first post he has a lincoln 3200 he and I both flux core welded some easily with no prob what so ever. Maybe I should get flux core welder it was so much easier to use esp. for inexperienced person like myself. Although I wanted the welds to be indistructable by using 7018.Im just fixing some of the swiss cheese on the old frame and I boxed the frame for a little extra stiffness esp.given the car frames age. But none of the welds are in a critical load bearing place.And yes I been turning frame to different positions so that Im welding parallel to ground. Why do you think the 6011 burned through .

[cj737]

Flux Core is a very strong weld. It’s basicallystick on a wire”. The auto wire feed also helps insure you get ample weld material into the joint. Just be mindful, self-shielded Flux Core (no gas)wants reverse polarity (Electrode Negative) unlike Stick (Electrode Positive).

[Farmwelding]

Flux Core is a very strong weld. It’s basicallystick on a wire”. The auto wire feed also helps insure you get ample weld material into the joint. Just be mindful, self-shielded Flux Core (no gas)wants reverse polarity (Electrode Negative) unlike Stick (Electrode Positive).

And some self shielded wires do not allow multi pass welds. Go to the main page and look in how to use the forum and use should find how to add a picture.

[MinnesotaDave]

Flux Core is a very strong weld. It’s basicallystick on a wire”. The auto wire feed also helps insure you get ample weld material into the joint. Just be mindful, self-shielded Flux Core (no gas)wants reverse polarity (Electrode Negative) unlike Stick (Electrode Positive).

Electrode negative is straight polarity.

Electrode positive is reverse polarity.

[cj737]

Flux Core is a very strong weld. It’s basicallystick on a wire”. The auto wire feed also helps insure you get ample weld material into the joint. Just be mindful, self-shielded Flux Core (no gas)wants reverse polarity (Electrode Negative) unlike Stick (Electrode Positive).

Electrode negative is straight polarity.

Electrode positive is reverse polarity.

Yeah, I should have said “polarity reversed”.

[Jim911]

Thanks again for the advise here are so.e of my practice welds on flat piece of 3mm thick steel which is what Im usi g for all my frame repairs.Please let me know ab the quality of these welds and what can I do to improve them . Also I know they are not very straight but am tryi g to make straight beads. Of all these welds I should note that on the one small weld with 110amps its the only weld where I actually had slag peel like you see on videos of professional welders. All the other welds slag came off easily but in broken chunks.The larger welds I used zig zag technique and the smaller ones were just straight beads. Also the glowi g one was ab what most of the welds looked like immediately after is that normal or were they too hot.Sorry ab the orientation of pictures.Thanks Jim

[Jim911]

I'm interested in getting a flux core welder they have one at Harbor Freight for a couple of hundred dollars it's 170 amp 240 volt the maximum wire diameter is .035 do you think that would be okay to finish up the welding on my car frame like I said the thickness of the steel ranges from 1 mm to as thick as 3mm. And the welder my friend brought over was a lincoln 3200 which ran off 120 but IDK what the amps capacity was. I just know it laid down really nice welds. Thanks for the information you guys I'm still a little confused I understand that DC negative runs a little colder than DC positive but I don't really understand what the polarity means or why would I be concerned about the polarity I don't really understand that part . Thanks,Jim

[Jim911]

Here's the car frame I m welding on its 71 Chevelle .before I started doing any welding I had it media blasted I try to remember to grind down the metal nice and clean before I clamp any two pieces together and make sure that they're touching each other really well with no gaps before I weld.Sorry pictures upside down.

[Jim911]

Like I said I know these welds look pretty rough they're not consistent in size I'm not consistent in speed but I just want to know if you guys think structurally they'll be sound enough if I continue to weld like this on the car frame even though like I said earlier the welds I'm doing yes there to help stiffen up the frame by boxing it and I'm repairing some holes in the frame but by no means is anything I'm welding of any structural significance. Thanks ,Jim

[cj737]

0.035 wire will be plenty big. The amount of wire a MIG machine puts out allows great control, and build-up as needed.

Looking at some your welds with 7018, they look fine mostly. I see a notation that says "140 amps". What rod are you running 140 amps? 7018 1/8" rod (probably larger than I'd run on thin material) tops out at about 125 amps. For your project, I'd surely drop to 3/32, maybe 85-90 amps depending upon orientation and material thickness.

[MinnesotaDave]

Like I said I know these welds look pretty rough they're not consistent in size I'm not consistent in speed but I just want to know if you guys think structurally they'll be sound enough if I continue to weld like this on the car frame even though like I said earlier the welds I'm doing yes there to help stiffen up the frame by boxing it and I'm repairing some holes in the frame but by no means is anything I'm welding of any structural significance. Thanks ,Jim

In my opinion, the entire car frame is structurally significant.

With your poor (inexperienced) welding ability you are very likely to do real damage to the frame that over time manifests itself as cracking.

Just my opinion.

For future reference in stick welding, never weld material thinner than the the rod. Doing so makes it much harder for you.
When the rod is thinner than the material, you have more control and are less likely to burn through in an uncontrolled manner.

[MinnesotaDave]

0.035 wire will be plenty big. The amount of wire a MIG machine puts out allows great control, and build-up as needed.

Looking at some your welds with 7018, they look fine mostly. I see a notation that says "140 amps". What rod are you running 140 amps? 7018 1/8" rod (probably larger than I'd run on thin material) tops out at about 125 amps. For your project, I'd surely drop to 3/32, maybe 85-90 amps depending upon orientation and material thickness.

I would respectfully disagree, I often run 7018 over 125 amps on thicker material - and they are rated for it.

image.png (236.09 KiB) Viewed 2656 times

[Jim911]

CJ737 Thanks the. 3/32 at ab 90 amps and not burning through the car frame so your advise worked.I m having trouble getting use to the fact the welds are much smaller but on the 1-2 mm thickness of the rear frame rail I think it will be ok. Should I run 2 or 3 beads on top of each other for strenght or should I do zig-zag or halfcircle pattern to increase width of weld material Im laying down or should I just run the one bead for each joint .Perhaps with welding less is more IDK..MinesotaDave Point well taken thats why Ive had my neighbor who welded for a living check on my progress . He told me 2 of the weld's I did iniitially were no good so I had to grind them off and start over . There was so much material sitting on top of weld took forever to grind it off. All the welds I did on flat stock were E7018 1/8 inch in the pictures I posted . One hurdle at a time after I finish boxing frame I want to try and fill in the swiss cheese like holes in the frame their isnt a lot but these rust holes range in size from ab 2mm to maybe 2 cm in diameter from rust and corosion. Is it possible to fill these in with stick welding ,I read you can put cooper behind hole and go low amps to fill in ,what rod though.I hate bondo would rather fill holes with metal if possible. Thanks for any advise. Jim

[Farmwelding]

CJ737 Thanks the. 3/32 at ab 90 amps and not burning through the car frame so your advise worked.I m having trouble getting use to the fact the welds are much smaller but on the 1-2 mm thickness of the rear frame rail I think it will be ok. Should I run 2 or 3 beads on top of each other for strenght or should I do zig-zag or halfcircle pattern to increase width of weld material Im laying down or should I just run the one bead for each joint .Perhaps with welding less is more IDK..MinesotaDave Point well taken thats why Ive had my neighbor who welded for a living check on my progress . He told me 2 of the weld's I did iniitially were no good so I had to grind them off and start over . There was so much material sitting on top of weld took forever to grind it off. All the welds I did on flat stock were E7018 1/8 inch in the pictures I posted . One hurdle at a time after I finish boxing frame I want to try and fill in the swiss cheese like holes in the frame their isnt a lot but these rust holes range in size from ab 2mm to maybe 2 cm in diameter from rust and corosion. Is it possible to fill these in with stick welding ,I read you can put cooper behind hole and go low amps to fill in ,what rod though.I hate bondo would rather fill holes with metal if possible. Thanks for any advise. Jim

Stick welding is definitely not the best option. For patching holes like that some kind of wire feeding is best. For larger holes you may have to take some material and weld into it. Maybe post some pictures of some of the holes.

[Jim911]

Harbor freight has Chicago flux core welder that goes up to 170 amps uses 240Volts do u guys think this would be ok for doing rest of my welding esp when cutting out holes and doing patch work. Its highest rated amperage in in my price range. Thanks ,Jim

[cj737]

You asked about stacking beads: if the work you're doing is cosmetic and NOT structural, a single pass is all you need. If you are welding plates to, or patches to the original frame, a single, good pass should also be ample.

The material thickness of the frame and the patch need to be similar. Your weld profile doesn't really need to exceed the thickness of either for this purpose. Understand, your welds may certainly hold, but adjacent areas of the frame are more susceptible to cracks or fatigue due to the heat affected zone of your welding. So definitely don't overdo the welds.

Patching holes is often easiest done with a wire feed, yes, that Hobart from HF will be fine for this project. Some 0.030 wire will pour ample wire into the weld and allow you to fill holes (might need a backer) and string on patches. As long as you are applying patches to the frame, and not cutting sections from the frame and replacing them, I'd say more or less you're fine. But you will still be prone to tweaking that frame from heating/welding on it. So take your time!!! It would not surprise me at all that once you're done, the frame won't fit the body without serious "manipulation" and "persuasion" afterwards

[KenK]

If you intend to do quite a bit of this and it looks like you have a serious project going on, a wire machine is the way to go period.

Now, with that said, if your going to invest in a wire machine, seriously consider spending a little more and get a machine that can support the use of gas (argon, CO2 mix). You do not need a 200 amp machine. For hobby work, a 110/ 125 amp machine will do what you need. When doing large jobs, you will have to wait from time to time to let the machine cool but I rarely find this to be a big problem. You will have to make 2 passes when welding 1/4" material but how much of that will you really be doing?

I have built three off road cars using an inexpensive 110 amp machine, 120 VAC wire machine.

As for flux wire welding, I personally do not like flux wire at all. It is real messy (lots of spatter) and requires a lot of cleanup and it really limits what you can do. When you need to thin metal like body panels, 0.035 flux wire will not work. With a gas capable machine, I go to 0.020 wire turn the machine down and do what I need to do.

If you look around, you might find a used small gas capable wire machine around.

[Poland308]

I used some .023 for floor pans and stiffener plates. I would have boxed in the frame for my buddy but a full time shop cut him a deal and then powder coated the whole frame.

[cj737]

If you intend to do quite a bit of this and it looks like you have a serious project going on, a wire machine is the way to go period.

I could not agree more with this ^^^

As for flux wire welding, I personally do not like flux wire at all. It is real messy (lots of spatter) and requires a lot of cleanup and it really limits what you can do. When you need to thin metal like body panels, 0.035 flux wire will not work.

True, 0.035 is too heavy a wire, but you can get Flux Core in thinner wire. And I too, would not use Flux Core for body panels, but a frame, sure. I actually like SilBronze in my MIG machine for body panels. It uses less heat, grinds down easier, and certainly is strong enough for a body seam.

If you look around, you might find a used small gas capable wire machine around.

I've got one, if you'e close enough

[KenK]

I have never heard of Sil/Bronze wire. I do on occasion do quite a bit of real thin steel. When I have to do this I generally use my TIG machine for better heat control.

What kind of gas would you use with Sil/Bronze wire??

Would that be kind of like brazing with o/a??

Relatively new, I have been welding with MIG for years using a cheap 110 amp gas MIG. Last year I finallly stepped up and bought a Miller Mig ( about 185 amp). What a difference!! I have been doing TIG for about 2 years but I am only a hobbyist not a pro by any means.

Ken

[Poland308]

Yes it’s more like brazing. If done right. Argon will work just fine. I’ve also done 45% silver braze with the tig as well only used 100% Argon.

[KenK]

Thanks for the tip.

I'll have to get ma a spool of Sil/Bronze. There are a lot of times when Brazing would be a good option.

Ken