Oscar wrote:Ground clamp is beefy, I have one of those on my 300A MIG. Could have just been the spot you put the clamp on. I can only assume you are holding a tight arc, ≤ 1/8"? Also are those bare aluminum(?) connectors inside the machine? If so, hadn't seen that before.
All the secondary and stabilizer windings are aluminum (square-ish). The primary MIGHT be copper...or it's aluminum and shielded with some coloured stuff that kind of makes you think it's copper (circular brown/red-ish wire).
I will admit the ground clamp was on a rusty spot...the whole plate was a bit rusty. I'll get the grinder out next time and shine up a nice spot for it before I try again. Does it make sense that the 6013 doesn't need as good a connection as the 6011?
The electrode would go out when I kept the arc too tight. When I have almost buried the rod before running different rods (probably 6013), I can drag it and even feel the rod touching and that would be ok. Is 6011 such that I can't do that? The couple times I had it going I was being cautious and trying to make sure I didn't long arc it and it still went out. Maybe I need to buy some 1/8" 6011 or 6010 to try that.
Oscar wrote:The electrode would go out when I kept the arc too tight. When I have almost buried the rod before running different rods (probably 6013), I can drag it and even feel the rod touching and that would be ok. Is 6011 such that I can't do that? The couple times I had it going I was being cautious and trying to make sure I didn't long arc it and it still went out. Maybe I need to buy some 1/8" 6011 or 6010 to try that.
Not by my experience. I have 6011s from Lowe's that I bought maybe 4 years ago, and they still run normal. Never had any issues with them snuffing out, but then again we have different machines and my material wasn't rusty. Your amperage is fine for 3/32" as they typically work just fine in the 50-90A range. Could just be a bad batch as well I suppose, but unlikely IMO. First try cleaning up the rust even if it's just a half-a*@ job, just clear out a path for the rod to take from start to finish, and get a good ground. Then report back.
Oscar wrote:
Not by my experience. I have 6011s from Lowe's that I bought maybe 4 years ago, and they still run normal. Never had any issues with them snuffing out, but then again we have different machines and my material wasn't rusty. Your amperage is fine for 3/32" as they typically work just fine in the 50-90A range. Could just be a bad batch as well I suppose, but unlikely IMO. First try cleaning up the rust even if it's just a half-a*@ job, just clear out a path for the rod to take from start to finish, and get a good ground. Then report back.
I cleaned it up better and upped the amps to 90 and was able to run a couple rods. If they stick, they seem to burn up and die quick even though I feel I'm fast at getting them off or pulling the stinger off them. If I'm still over half a rod I can cut about an inch off and they will sometimes run. Sometimes they get a nice flame going at the tip
I feel it's totally different how hard it is to start 6011. You really need to do the strike a match type start but then long arc it but it needs to be controlled as too far will put it out and too close and it sticks. Maybe it's just my old machine. Once the plate was hot, I felt it got easier to start them and keep them going (always seems to be the case). 6011 certainly is different and obviously penetrates more, digs and is more violent as I was told. The 3/32" rods don't seem to run too well. I couldn't imagine running it with confidence on thin metal. I would have to be muuuuuuch more skilled than I am (very not-skilled at the moment).
I also thought maybe the spring on my work clamp could be a bit stiffer. It is hard to press very far (stiffens quickly) but doesn't clamp to thin stuff well.
jtap wrote:My welder came with a Tweco a-732 Electrode Holder.
What would be the reason to buy/have some 3/32" 6013 and 7014? Are they more gentle and can be run at a lower amperage with less penetration and less chance of blow-through?
rutile electrodes will usually give a nicer looking bead. that can mean less clean up.
6013 these days tends to be a general purpose rod, use it for almost everything. its not fussy about storage requirements. cellulose rods can get to dry, basic rods need to be kept really dry.
rutile will generally run on anything, even some old buzz box. some 7018's don't run well on AC. some inverters will not run cellulose at all.
6013 can be run on electrode negative for low penetration on thin materials.
one catch is there is a wide range of 6013 available tuned for different things. single coat rutile, double coat rutile, cellulose rutile. theres even a pipeline 6013.
I didn't realize I was so ignorant about 6013. I tried them starting out years ago and despised them. Here at home it's 7018 and 6011 for me. I'll be doing some more research on 6013 I guess. Thank you Sir.
I ran a copper wound Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC for several years in the barn with no power. For smaller projects or when the weather was bad I ran it off a 5500 watt generator. Other times I set up outside where I could plug into the house. 85-90A DC was pushing the generator hard but it welded all I need using 3/32 rods. The big difference was the arc starts. Every time I got to run off mains power it was amazing how easy the starts were. Also a noticeable increase in arc length before I could break the arc.
Just something to consider. Good luck. I've switched to doing most everything with Tig, but it amazes me how much I miss stick when I do get to burn some rods now.
v5cvbb wrote:I didn't realize I was so ignorant about 6013. I tried them starting out years ago and despised them. Here at home it's 7018 and 6011 for me. I'll be doing some more research on 6013 I guess. Thank you Sir.
6013 doesn't get as much love as it should. I love how easy it runs and the look of the finished bead when you run a good one. It is quite runny with the slag, but it can still blow holes in steel if you're not careful. I've been trying to get better at running it.
Oscar, I think the only 6013 I have are some 1/16", maybe, I bought trying to weld body panels. They are like sparklers. I'll pick up some 3/32" and give them another go. Are the Lincoln at Lowe's or Hobart that Tractor Supply carries worth bringing home? My LWS doesn't generally have much of a selection, and I'm rarely near the shop that does.
Yea i have some from Lowe's and they run fine. Even with them being 4yrs old. There are better deals to be had if you go to off-brand stuff from online, but you have to make the investment of getting a 50lbs tin equivalent for the price/lbs to come down. Or just finding good deals on EBay. You just have to convince people to ship USPS large flat-rate so they can stuff 50lbs per box.
v5cvbb wrote:I didn't realize I was so ignorant about 6013. I tried them starting out years ago and despised them. Here at home it's 7018 and 6011 for me. I'll be doing some more research on 6013 I guess. Thank you Sir.
6013 doesn't get as much love as it should. I love how easy it runs and the look of the finished bead when you run a good one. It is quite runny with the slag, but it can still blow holes in steel if you're not careful. I've been trying to get better at running it.
it interesting how different countries have such different opinions on things.
usa seams to weld everything with 7018 and crap on 6013.
europe tends to still use 6013 a lot. (fantastic welder on welding web that welds big pipes with 6013).
here 7016 tends to be the go to rod, but 6013 still in high use with hobby guys and farm repairs.
v5cvbb wrote:jtap, what is your power situation like?
I ran a copper wound Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC for several years in the barn with no power. For smaller projects or when the weather was bad I ran it off a 5500 watt generator. Other times I set up outside where I could plug into the house. 85-90A DC was pushing the generator hard but it welded all I need using 3/32 rods. The big difference was the arc starts. Every time I got to run off mains power it was amazing how easy the starts were. Also a noticeable increase in arc length before I could break the arc.
Just something to consider. Good luck. I've switched to doing most everything with Tig, but it amazes me how much I miss stick when I do get to burn some rods now.
Funny you mention that. I just finished running some 6 gauge to my shop today and put a new plug on it. I haven't had time to test it yet. I had been running on wire straight to the breaker in my box...it was solid core 10 gauge and I had it on a 40 amp and never tripped it. It's on a 50 amp now. Maybe it will make a difference.
It seems crazy to me that I need to run 6 gauge for my welder outlet but the welder itself has like 12 gauge wires in its cord.
My welder also came with an extension cord on it. I may remove that also as that gauge may not be as big as it should be considering the increase to the impedance that its distance adds.
Jtap, it's about distance. Small guage wire isn't unusual on the input side of welders but the short runs offer minimal voltage drop. My generator really sagged both voltage and frequency when striking an arc and never tripped a 30 amp breaker.
v5cvbb wrote:I didn't realize I was so ignorant about 6013. I tried them starting out years ago and despised them. Here at home it's 7018 and 6011 for me. I'll be doing some more research on 6013 I guess. Thank you Sir.
6013 doesn't get as much love as it should. I love how easy it runs and the look of the finished bead when you run a good one. It is quite runny with the slag, but it can still blow holes in steel if you're not careful. I've been trying to get better at running it.
it interesting how different countries have such different opinions on things.
usa seams to weld everything with 7018 and crap on 6013.
europe tends to still use 6013 a lot. (fantastic welder on welding web that welds big pipes with 6013).
here 7016 tends to be the go to rod, but 6013 still in high use with hobby guys and farm repairs.
Tweake, I had heard 6013 is more common in other places. I watched Jody's video on 6013 lap joints last night and now I remember why I stopped using them. That swirling mess of flux left me guessing what I was doing as a new welder. My first box of 7018 and I was hooked on actually being able to see a puddle. I'm far from a pro welder but I'm not exactly green anymore so I'll give the butter rods, as Dad calls them, another go.
v5cvbb wrote:I didn't realize I was so ignorant about 6013. I tried them starting out years ago and despised them. Here at home it's 7018 and 6011 for me. I'll be doing some more research on 6013 I guess. Thank you Sir.
6013 doesn't get as much love as it should. I love how easy it runs and the look of the finished bead when you run a good one. It is quite runny with the slag, but it can still blow holes in steel if you're not careful. I've been trying to get better at running it.
it interesting how different countries have such different opinions on things.
usa seams to weld everything with 7018 and crap on 6013.
europe tends to still use 6013 a lot. (fantastic welder on welding web that welds big pipes with 6013).
here 7016 tends to be the go to rod, but 6013 still in high use with hobby guys and farm repairs.
Tweake, I had heard 6013 is more common in other places. I watched Jody's video on 6013 lap joints last night and now I remember why I stopped using them. That swirling mess of flux left me guessing what I was doing as a new welder. My first box of 7018 and I was hooked on actually being able to see a puddle. I'm far from a pro welder but I'm not exactly green anymore so I'll give the butter rods, as Dad calls them, another go.
v5cvbb wrote:I watched Jody's video on 6013 lap joints last night and now I remember why I stopped using them. That swirling mess of flux left me guessing what I was doing as a new welder. My first box of 7018 and I was hooked on actually being able to see a puddle. I'm far from a pro welder but I'm not exactly green anymore so I'll give the butter rods, as Dad calls them, another go.
IMO, 1/8" 6013 is too much rod for 1/8" material. The amperage was a little low for that rod, IMO; and for 6013, the amperage is critical because it is what pushes the slag back away from the puddle. IMO, a better rod for 1/8" base material is a 3/32", 2.4mm rod. That way it can be ran on the higher end of it's range, and it would help push the slag back a lot better. I'd have to test it out myself, since I do need more practice, but that's how I remember it from before.
v5cvbb wrote:I picked up 5lb of 3/32" Lincoln 6013 today. I'll crank the current up and see how they behave. Soon hopefully. Thanks guys.
Should work ok. My favorite rod is Lincoln Excalibur MR (7018) so far. They have a couple different Excalibur, but MR is what my LWS has. By far my favorite rod.
v5cvbb wrote:Jtap, it's about distance. Small guage wire isn't unusual on the input side of welders but the short runs offer minimal voltage drop. My generator really sagged both voltage and frequency when striking an arc and never tripped a 30 amp breaker.
Hope the new wiring helps.
It at least made me not so scared to crank it up as the welder manual said that it could draw 47 amps. With a 50 amp breaker now and properly over-gauged wire, I turned it up to 120 to burn some 6011 1/8" rods. it was easier to start and keep going.
TraditionalToolworks wrote:
Should work ok. My favorite rod is Lincoln Excalibur MR (7018) so far. They have a couple different Excalibur, but MR is what my LWS has. By far my favorite rod.
I'm interested to try some 7018 now that I have my permanent setup. I used the 6011 today since I wanted a stronger weld for what I was working on. Rain cut my welding short or I would have done more. I have about 10 lbs of old 7018 Excalibur that were given with the welder. They probably have absorbed a good bit of moisture but hopefully will still burn fine for practice and non-structural stuff.
jtap wrote:
I'm interested to try some 7018 now that I have my permanent setup. I used the 6011 today since I wanted a stronger weld for what I was working on. Rain cut my welding short or I would have done more. I have about 10 lbs of old 7018 Excalibur that were given with the welder. They probably have absorbed a good bit of moisture but hopefully will still burn fine for practice and non-structural stuff.
7018 works great, but it cant beat 6010/6011 for the deep-digging arc characteristic and the better job of cutting through all sorts of crud. 6011 can be plenty strong if the bead has the correct throat size, convexity, and the appropriate toe-to-base metal angle (IOW: with the toes wet'ed in nicely). Avoiding sharp stress-risers and concavity can go along way to allowing a metal to sustain it's rated strength by minimizing stress concentrations (source: Engineer to Win, C. Shelby)
I've got some old water logged Fourney 7018 that always give a little porosity until they heat up. No rod oven so I burn them where it doesn't matter. I know I need a oven, but I'll burn what I have.
Oscar wrote:
7018 works great, but it cant beat 6010/6011 for the deep-digging arc characteristic and the better job of cutting through all sorts of crud. 6011 can be plenty strong if the bead has the correct throat size, convexity, and the appropriate toe-to-base metal angle (IOW: with the toes wet'ed in nicely). Avoiding sharp stress-risers and concavity can go along way to allowing a metal to sustain it's rated strength by minimizing stress concentrations (source: Engineer to Win, C. Shelby)
I ran a bunch of 6011 yesterday. I had it turned up to 120-125 and it was running fine...I started to have trouble starting it (weird since the piece was hot) and when I looked at the machine to turn it up a bit...I noticed the crank handle had jiggled itself back to ~90 amps. I thought that was a bit weird. When I turned it back up it was starting great again. I don't know why the shunt would move so much or if there is anything I can do about that.
I also ran some 7018 to try it. It worked fine also. I'll have to play with it more to see how I like it.
I actually ran a few beads that almost looked like I knew what I was doing. haha.
jtap wrote:Ran a bunch of 1/8" 6013 the other day (a bunch to me anyway, 20-25 rods) I was joining some thick metal pipe to some propane tank wall which wasn't very thick. Worked out well. They are Hobart from a 10# box.
I was playing around with these 3/32" 6011 rods and they don't want to run at all. They are the lincoln rods from the shelf at HD or Lowe's. So much sticking with them. I'm not sure what I would need to do technique wise to keep them running. Tried them on AC and DCEP. They just want to stick and when I get it going they don't want to stay going. Went from 40 amps to around 85. Tried a few settings in there. At each setting before I changed it, I ran some 3/32" 6013 (same lincoln brand) and it ran no problem on all the same settings.
I'm going to try some 7018 soon. I also have 10# of 7014 1/8" to mess with.
It's the rods, I'm not sure if it's that the fleetweld 180 rods tend to dry out on the shelves sometimes, or if they just don't have as tight quality control as their professional line of rods. But over a year back I bought a box of 3/32 6011 from lowes and just couldn't get them to run right, no matter if I cranked them to 70 amps, or how hard I tried they'd just do nothing but stick it felt like, Finally after suspecting a bad box I picked up some fleetweld 6011 in 1/8 instead. Even on my 70 amp toaster welder they were still more usable.
Months later I got a full sized AC/DC buzz box, and I found the 3/32 6011 lincolns to still be a pain in the ass, that would run and sputter like they were cold at 80 amps except I'd end up with a blackened stub at the end. The same box of 1/8 rods were far better, though they still "felt weird" and I couldn't seem to find a sweet spot for them, as they'd stick constantly if I didn't run them hot. So I tossed most my 3/32 rods out of frustration.
Yesterday I found some 3/32 rods from that original box tucked away and compared them to some 3/32 6010 and did the same with 1/8 rods. I tossed the rest of the 3/32 6011 by the 2nd rod.
sbaker56 wrote:
It's the rods, I'm not sure if it's that the fleetweld 180 rods tend to dry out on the shelves sometimes, or if they just don't have as tight quality control as their professional line of rods. But over a year back I bought a box of 3/32 6011 from lowes and just couldn't get them to run right, no matter if I cranked them to 70 amps, or how hard I tried they'd just do nothing but stick it felt like, Finally after suspecting a bad box I picked up some fleetweld 6011 in 1/8 instead. Even on my 70 amp toaster welder they were still more usable.
Months later I got a full sized AC/DC buzz box, and I found the 3/32 6011 lincolns to still be a pain in the ass, that would run and sputter like they were cold at 80 amps except I'd end up with a blackened stub at the end. The same box of 1/8 rods were far better, though they still "felt weird" and I couldn't seem to find a sweet spot for them, as they'd stick constantly if I didn't run them hot. So I tossed most my 3/32 rods out of frustration.
Yesterday I found some 3/32 rods from that original box tucked away and compared them to some 3/32 6010 and did the same with 1/8 rods. I tossed the rest of the 3/32 6011 by the 2nd rod.
I'm going to get a 10#er of the hobart or the fourney from amazon to try next. They both have good ratings.
