[mharlos]

Hello,

I'm newly registered to the forum, although I have benefited from the information here for the last year or so as I try to learn more about welding.

I retired about a year ago and immediately signed up for some evening courses at our local technical school so I can pursue some hobbies I've always been interested in (welding, machining, and residential electrical). Fortunately I was able to do all of these before classes were cancelled due to CoVid.

The welding course was just 20 hours, with the first class being oxyacetylene, then the rest was MIG and stick (mostly MIG - nobody else in the class seemed to like either oxyacetylene or stick).

I've gradually acquired some equipment, and have been practicing with scrap metal. I have an oxyacetylene setup, a ESAB Rebel EM 215ic MIG/flux core, and a ESAB MiniArc Rogue ES 180i stick welder (can also to TIG if set up for it, but I don't have that).

I have a question about using 6011 rods with the MiniArc stick welder; I've asked ESAB but I'm not sure about their reply, so I thought I'd check here.

The welder has 3 possible operation modes, which the manual describes as: (1) Stick (SMAW) welding; (2) Cel 6010 - "Optimized arc characteristics for cellulose electrodes, such as 6010"; and (3) TIG. The manual also refers to the 6010 setting as "Stick (SMWA) with Cellulose electrode"

My instinct would be to use the "Cel 6010" mode for 6011 rods, as they are both cellulose rods. My understanding is that there isn't a lot of difference in their composition; the 6010 is a DC-only high-cellulose sodium rod and the 6011 is DC/AC high-cellulose potassium - each has about 30% cellulose by weight in the coating. The fact that the owner's manual refers to it as "Cel 6010" supports using the 6010 mode for 6011 in my view.

After checking with ESAB technical support just to be sure. Their reply was "From our understanding the 6010 is only for the 6010. Everything else will use the other option".

I spend about an hour last night running beads on 3/8" plate using 1/8" 6011 at 100 amps switching between the 6010 mode and the stick mode, and my untrained eye didn't notice a difference.

I still think it makes more sense to use the 6010 mode for 6011 rods, but I'm not so sure now after the reply from tech support. I have to say that the ESAB support folks were very pleasant and professional. I'm not intending to be disrespectful, and I definitely don't think I know more about welding or ESAB machines than ESAB tech support. This might be one of those unanswerable questions that don't matter much anyways. I am just wondering what the thoughts of experienced weldors might be.

Thanks for any thoughts you might have.

Regards,

Mike

[TraditionalToolworks]

Mike,

Welcome!

Great setup you have, that miniarc 180i is something I'd like to have in my shop for stick.

You should not be running the 6011 on cellulose mode, AFAIK, but if it doesn't work correctly you can try it, I don't think it would hurt anything.

I would personally run E6010 on that machine (on cellulose mode), that's one of the big advantages to it, the fact it will run E6010. Many inverters don't run E6010 very well.

You might be able to run tig off your Esab 215ic, that I'm not sure of as I don't use MIG to date. I like to say I get my snap crackle pop from stick.

With that said, wait for a real welder to offer you some advice.

[mharlos]

Thanks very much for your reply!

I think I'll mostly be using 6010 as you suggest, rather than 6011 - I kind of over-bought supplies when I got the welder (partly to save on subsequent shipping of repeated small orders), so I have about 10 lbs of each rod. I think I'll use the 6011 mostly to keep practicing my technique on scrap metal.

It's been difficult to find info about this. When I searched, I did find some material about Everlast welders that apparently have a 6010 port (not sure what that looks like), and people were advised to use that for 6011 rods too. That's partly why I questioned this for the ESAB.

Thanks again,

Mike

[TraditionalToolworks]

I think I'll mostly be using 6010 as you suggest, rather than 6011 - I kind of over-bought supplies when I got the welder (partly to save on subsequent shipping of repeated small orders), so I have about 10 lbs of each rod. I think I'll use the 6011 mostly to keep practicing my technique on scrap metal.

You should be able to get the 6011 to run on your machine just fine, it's the 6010 that is much harder to run. Since your machine as the ability for 6010 that seems to be a big advantage.

It's been difficult to find info about this. When I searched, I did find some material about Everlast welders that apparently have a 6010 port (not sure what that looks like), and people were advised to use that for 6011 rods too. That's partly why I questioned this for the ESAB.

That's interesting that the green weenie machines have a 6010 port but it doesn't run 6010 very well, so people suggest running 6011 on it.

I think it all depends on the machine. I have an Everlast machine that will not run 6010 well, so I run 6011 on it. My machine does have an arc force on it. That has to do with keeping the rod running smoothly, at least my understanding.

I don't know the exactly details on the 6010 cellulose mode, but maybe Josh will see this thread and respond, I tend to listen to him on stick related issues as he seems to use stick more than most people on this forum.

Ironically, I just got a Primeweld 225 recently and this machine doesn't even have an arc force control, yet another guy in WI was able to get 6010 to run on it pretty well. All machines are not created equal, obviously.

[v5cvbb]

I have the Everlast, and I'll say the 6011 are much easier to run when you get stuck using 100 feet of extension cord. They can get by with a little less voltage. Could be a brand thing though. My 6010 and 6011 are different manufacturer.

You have the stick welder I wish was around when I was buying. Congratulations on a nice setup.

[tweake]

My instinct would be to use the "Cel 6010" mode for 6011 rods, as they are both cellulose rods. My understanding is that there isn't a lot of difference in their composition; the 6010 is a DC-only high-cellulose sodium rod and the 6011 is DC/AC high-cellulose potassium - each has about 30% cellulose by weight in the coating. The fact that the owner's manual refers to it as "Cel 6010" supports using the 6010 mode for 6011 in my view.

as a general rule cellulose rods require a bit more voltage for them to run.
however often 6011 will run just fine on normal setting. if it keeps cutting out when welding, then use the 6010 setting.
the difference between 6010 and 6011 is 6010 requires a much higher voltage to run.
downside of using 6010 setting is welder will have slightly reduced max amps or duty cycle.

thats a good machine. there is a lot of inverter welders out there that can't run any cellulose rods at all.

[Oscar]

My instinct would be to use the "Cel 6010" mode for 6011 rods, as they are both cellulose rods. My understanding is that there isn't a lot of difference in their composition; the 6010 is a DC-only high-cellulose sodium rod and the 6011 is DC/AC high-cellulose potassium - each has about 30% cellulose by weight in the coating. The fact that the owner's manual refers to it as "Cel 6010" supports using the 6010 mode for 6011 in my view.

as a general rule cellulose rods require a bit more voltage for them to run.
however often 6011 will run just fine on normal setting. if it keeps cutting out when welding, then use the 6010 setting.
the difference between 6010 and 6011 is 6010 requires a much higher voltage to run.
downside of using 6010 setting is welder will have slightly reduced max amps or duty cycle.

thats a good machine. there is a lot of inverter welders out there that can't run any cellulose rods at all.

I agree, it's all about the necessary welding voltage needed to keep E6010's lit.

mharlos, the reason you likely don't see any difference (neither do I) when using 6011's on the 6010 cellolosic setting is that the arc voltage is already higher than what the 6011 is asking for, so the arc stays lit just as it normally would on the other basic setting.

Ironically, I just got a Primeweld 225 recently and this machine doesn't even have an arc force control, yet another guy in WI was able to get 6010 to run on it pretty well. All machines are not created equal, obviously.

On a similar note, I noticed that while my Invertig 400 and Pro Pulse 300 can run 6010s, they can struggle only if I use my water-cooled stick welding stinger. The reason is same as above - voltage. My stick welding stinger is 50ft long, and uses a TIG power cable, that has a very thin copper conductor inside. And while this conductor is perfectly fine for TIG welding at lower arc voltages (even at many, many amps), it induces enough voltage loss to cause problems on E6010s. Going to a regular heavy gauge cable stinger, the issue disappears altogether. Which leads me to hypothesize that perhaps other TIG welders might have a chance of success with E6010s if and only if they take proper measures to absolutely minimize voltage-drop as much as possible. Perhaps with massively over-sized stinger and ground leads, perhaps even multiple ground clamps with very strong jaw clamping pressure, possibly even with sharp serrations/teeth to really dig into the part and make the best possible electrical contact path. I'm wondering how the stick-welding side of my Pro Pulse 220MTS would fare with E6010s that they are not rated for if I took those measures I listed above....

[TraditionalToolworks]

I have the Everlast, and I'll say the 6011 are much easier to run when you get stuck using 100 feet of extension cord. They can get by with a little less voltage. Could be a brand thing though. My 6010 and 6011 are different manufacturer

I think we need to be fair about this. Your Everlast is actually one of the better machines to run 6010 from the reviews I've seen on it. You have the PowerArc 210STL, which is by far one of the better stick welders in it's class.

It seems you were running your machine on a very long extension that was quite undersized and possibly 120v, and I think this gets back to the point that both tweake and Oscar point out, that voltage is critical in running 6010 more so than other rods.

I was actually thinking about some of the Everlast machines that claim to run 6010, such as the EXT series, those aren't stick machines specific, but rather those are tig machines that are 6010 capable. The analog series machines such as the 200DV do not claim to run 6010, and my i-Tig 201 is a strange hybrid as it's digital with analog controls, but it doesn't claim to run 6010 either. I have not tried on it, so I can't say... But I can say it does run 6011 just fine. I should get some 6010 rod and try it, my i-Tig 201 does have an arc force control.

The i-Tig 200T is a digital machine similar mine, and it does claim to run 6010. It has the newer style digital circuit like the EXT series.

Nothing wrong with that 210STL that you have, IMO, a very well respected stick welder that is known to have a real punch. Run that box on 240v, I bet it will burn a 6010 bead like no tomorrow.

I would also recommend to try some Lincoln Pipeliner 6P+ rod (they have other cheaper rod) if you haven't, Lincoln rod is pretty much the gold standard in stick welding.

[mharlos]

Thanks so much everyone for your replies - what you say makes sense.

I really appreciate the explanations!

Regards,

Mike