[johng650]

* Skip below to "???" if you want to bypass the intro


Hi, I have some property in Hawaii, on the Big Island, and I'm starting to get a lot of machines. The machines are getting rusty, so I'd like to fix them. I did some welding in and Industrial Mechanics class in High School (in the '80s) so I thought I'd get a welder and figure it out.

The least expensive welder to come up on Craig's List was a Lincoln AC225, I picked it up for $75. I went through all the internal connections, cleaned everything to ensure good contact. Cleaned the rotary switch and the power switch, cleaned the fan...

Most of what I'm going to weld is thin, mower decks, chipper housing, trailer fender, 16ga I think. Like I said it's rusty, so I figured 6011, 3/32 is a reasonable choice. I know this AC, stick welder is not ideal, but it's what I have and for what I need I think I can make it work.

I got the 6011 at Airgas, they are Radnor brand.

I started out with the welder set to 75 amps, and was blowing through like crazy, so backed off to 60 had trouble starting the arc and was still blowing through so backed down to 40.

I've been practicing a couple days, 25 rods or so, on some 16ga plate and 16 ga square tubing (part of a treadmill frame). I'm getting better, the beads are looking better and I'm not blowing through as much. I've pretty much settled on 40 amps, I can control the heat better and still get good penetration. I still blow through if the rod angle is too straight or I pause too long, but I just need more practice.

"???"
The one thing I continue to have problems with is striking an arc on a rod fresh out of the box. I try tapping, scratching, laying the rod almost parallel to the work and sort of rolling it, it takes for ever to get the new rod to start. They just keep sticking. Once it burns off a little I can start an arc no problem.

I noticed yesterday that one area of my practice plate seems to be easier to start a new rod on. so I started burning an inch or so of the new rods there, then moving to the fresh practice area and laying beads (strike, pause, whip, pause,whip ...2 inches or so, finish, repeat) No problem getting an arc going.

The 'special' area isn't clean, in fact I had tacked the practice plate to the square tube there and not bothered to clean the tack.

So, what do I try? I guess I could up the amps a step to make starting easier. Maybe I can practice in enough technique to keep from burning through. The steel is clean, the treadmill frame was painted so I used a flap disc to get to bare metal, but I guess I could clean it with acetone or break cleaner. Kind of makes using 6011 pointless, if it's all clean I could just use 6013.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

John

[weldin mike 27]

In my humble opinion, I think you have a large number of things working against you. Most mere mortals can't stick weld something that thin. Also, for some reason, previously painted stuff, possibly powder coated stuff is really difficult to weld. Plus the 6011 rods have a forceful arc that is designed to bite in, so it burns through that thickness anyway.

If you persist in trying the stick welding, get some 1/8 wall clean tube.

[weldin mike 27]

In my humble opinion, I think you have a large number of things working against you. Most mere mortals can't stick weld something that thin. Also, for some reason, previously painted stuff, possibly powder coated stuff is really difficult to weld. Plus the 6011 rods have a forceful arc that is designed to bite in, so it burns through that thickness anyway.

If you persist in trying the stick welding with 6011 get some 1/8 wall clean tube. If you want to go thinner, try some 6012 rods. They are very good for light stuff. But you have to design your joints properly. There's no need to fully weld light material, just weld the ends of the tube to the side of the other tube. That way, the side of the tube can help to suck away some heat. Dont try to do a butt weld, unless you put a bit of a backer behind it to stop it from burning through.

[cwby]

3/32 is a pretty flexible rod & is prone to stick until you get the feel of it. Try a 1/8 at about 70 - 80 amps & move faster. The higher deposition rate of the larger rod will help.

[Oscar]

The base metal doesn't have to be super clean to light up 6011s. On your machine, not much you can do except play with the amperage as it doesn't have any other settings like a modern-day inverter welder. If you keep having trouble, you might want to settle on 6013/7014 rods instead. Either that or keep mucking around; in the end it's you that has to decide how much your time is worth.

[Louie1961]

As a rule, I find that you really can't use an electrode that is thicker than the base metal you are trying to weld, especially an electrode like 6011 which has a strong, digging arc. I mean 16 gauge is 1/16th of an inch in thickness, so using a 3/32 rod, you are fighting a losing battle to begin with. As noted above, stick welding thin material is a challenge even with the right rods. If you are adamant about using stick for these repairs, go get some 1/16th size 6013 rods. 6013 was originally used for sheet metal applications and runs well on AC. But in reallity you would be much better served with a small MIG machine.

As far as the arc starts, make sure you are cleaning the area to be welded down to bright shiny metal. Same for where you are attaching the ground clamp.

[johng650]

3/32 is a pretty flexible rod & is prone to stick until you get the feel of it. Try a 1/8 at about 70 - 80 amps & move faster. The higher deposition rate of the larger rod will help.

Yes indeedy, I was having troubles with the tio of the rod bouncing all over so I started 'pool que' (not sure if that's what you call it). I have some super gloves so I'm getting burnt, just a little warm sometimes.

Interesting you're suggesting using a bigger rod, others are suggesting using a smaller rod for thin material.

[johng650]

3/32 is a pretty flexible rod & is prone to stick until you get the feel of it. Try a 1/8 at about 70 - 80 amps & move faster. The higher deposition rate of the larger rod will help.

Yes indeedy, I was having troubles with the tip of the rod bouncing all over so I started 'pool que' (not sure if that's what you call it). I have some super gloves so I'm getting burnt, just a little warm sometimes.

Interesting you're suggesting using a bigger rod, others are suggesting using a smaller rod for thin material.

[johng650]

The base metal doesn't have to be super clean to light up 6011s. On your machine, not much you can do except play with the amperage as it doesn't have any other settings like a modern-day inverter welder. If you keep having trouble, you might want to settle on 6013/7014 rods instead. Either that or keep mucking around; in the end it's you that has to decide how much your time is worth.

I bought the 6011 because they seemed to be the internet consensus for old metal. In school we learned on 7014 and it was way easier. Of course it was a high powered DC welder (cant remember the specifics) on 1/2 plate.

I'd hate to spend $100 on several boxes of electrodes looking for one that works just a little bit better. Maybe some 1/16th inch 6013 would give me better results on the thin metal if theres no technique I can employ. Is there a chance that the 1/16 6013 would need less then the lowest setting on the AC225 (40 anps)?

FWIW, I actually saw a guy on YouTube strike a new electrode on a piece off to the side, burn an inch, then move to his workpiece. I guess its something people do?

I'm never one to take the easiest path it seems like if theres a harder way to do something that's how I seem to go.

[cwby]

Most red iron welders (purlin is 14 - 16 ga) use 1/8 6011 with a quick whip & pause technique that works well. Takes some practice - you have to light up & move, but once you get it down you can lay a good looking bead on some thin stuff.

[tweake]

i've done thin wall tube with 3/32 6013 but with electrode negative. 6011 on ac will be horrendously aggressive.

small trick that helps starting with some rods is to file the tip a little bit. clean tip can help.
some rods the metal rod sticks out from the flux a lot and often will give it a fast drag across a plate to burn that off.
also check your earths.

[Oscar]

Interesting you're suggesting using a bigger rod, others are suggesting using a smaller rod for thin material.

That's because in their head they're seeing themselves do the welding, not you doing the welding. They cannot magically impart their skill onto you with sheer will-power. So in the end you have to make the decision of trying out the advice as you see fit.

[Poland308]

I skipped most o& the reading. Had the same machine for a bit. Hard time getting any 6010/6011 started below 75 amps. Bumped up to 1/8 inch rod, or 3/32 7018. Those machines don’t really have good low end control, and the out put varies a lot depending on actual input.

[weldin mike 27]

Just for interests sake, 6011 are almost non existent in Australia. Pipe lines and that's it.