[danielbuck]

I'll admit, I don't know much about electricity

I'm running 110 power through a 15 amp breaker (Ugh... I know, it's not enough! I'm working on getting permission to have it upgraded!)

I have two welders, a lincoln 180 dual voltage MIG welder, and an Everlast 200DX dual voltage TIG/Stick welder.

When I'm using the MIG welder at full power , I can weld for probably a good 30 seconds non stop before the breaker pops. When I'm TIG welding at full power (110) I can TIG for about 10-15 seconds before the breaker pops. And I just started to try and lean to Stick weld today, and at full power I can literally only weld for about 4-5 seconds before the breaker pops.


Does stick welding hit the breaker harder? I do have the polarities correct, and the weld looks fine.

[MinnesotaDave]

Seems you've answered your own question doesn't it? I'm not an electrical expert either but it stands to reason.

But, I recommend stopping the practice of welding till your breaker pops and making your machines handle the repeated full-blast-to-zero-power shut down cycles.

[Otto Nobedder]

Dave's right... Having the current cut from the supply side by the breaker is NOT good for your equipment (or the breaker).

Get it wired right, and start over.

This is important for safety, as well as the health of your equipment.

Steve S

[Superiorwelding]

I'll admit, I don't know much about electricity

I'm running 110 power through a 15 amp breaker (Ugh... I know, it's not enough! I'm working on getting permission to have it upgraded!)

I have two welders, a lincoln 180 dual voltage MIG welder, and an Everlast 200DX dual voltage TIG/Stick welder.

When I'm using the MIG welder at full power , I can weld for probably a good 30 seconds non stop before the breaker pops. When I'm TIG welding at full power (110) I can TIG for about 10-15 seconds before the breaker pops. And I just started to try and lean to Stick weld today, and at full power I can literally only weld for about 4-5 seconds before the breaker pops.


Does stick welding hit the breaker harder? I do have the polarities correct, and the weld looks fine.

danielbuck,
Can you go to Lowes or Home Depot and get a 20 amp breaker and switch them out. This is assuming that the wire can handle the extra current.
Looks like the Lincoln and Everlast require a 20A breaker.
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/Eq ... nElectric)
http://www.everlastgenerators.com/Power ... 51-pd.html
Upgrade your breaker and wiring and you will be fine. Also over time this will in fact weaken your breaker, making it more prove to trip.
-Jonathan

[danielbuck]

Thanks fellas


I'll see if I can find out what gauge wire is going to the breaker, and to the outlet.

[danielbuck]

Seems you've answered your own question doesn't it? I'm not an electrical expert either but it stands to reason.

So I take it that it's normal for stick welding to take more amps than other types of welding? When I got the TIG/Stick machine, I thought the machine itself just took a bit more power (only using TIG until today), that's why the breaker would pop sooner than when I was Mig welding on the Lincoln. Until today when I tried the stick function, and the breaker pops almost immediately. Just wanted to make sure I didn't have the machine set wrong or something. I don't think any of the other fuctions (pulse, and what not) affect the machine when it's in Stick mode, the only controls I think that do anything are the power knob, and the arc force. At least, I think those are the only two knobs that do anything in stick mode.

I've learned (when MIG and TIG welding) how long it takes before the breaker pops, so if I'm doing a long run, I'll stop short and let things cool. I popped the breaker twice with the Stick, and I've not tried it since.


I will say this though, what little bit of welding I did get done (basically 2 or 3 glorified spot welds ) were alot easier to do, and look alot better than the last time I tried to stick weld on an old free POS Dayton that was rusting apart. Now I kinda want to learn to stick weld.

[MinnesotaDave]

Seems you've answered your own question doesn't it? I'm not an electrical expert either but it stands to reason.

So I take it that it's normal for stick welding to take more amps than other types of welding? When I got the TIG/Stick machine, I thought the machine itself just took a bit more power (only using TIG until today), that's why the breaker would pop sooner than when I was Mig welding on the Lincoln. Until today when I tried the stick function, and the breaker pops almost immediately.

Check the posted specs on your machine. In the attached pic the 200dx is the far right column.
Note the differences in tig vs stick. What do you conclude from this information?
(Tig specs at top, stick at bottom)

image.jpg (183.97 KiB) Viewed 2391 times

[danielbuck]

Ok, so next week my landlord and I are going to run 220 into the garage. We've already run new wires and upgraded the 15amp breaker to a 30amp for the 110 plugs a few weeks ago, now we'll run new wires and put in a additional plugs for 220.

So, I only have two machines that can plug into 220. A Lincoln 180 Dual, and a Everlast 200DV Dual.

The specs on the Lincoln state:

Input Power: 120/1/60 or 208/230/1/60
Input Current: 20A


And for the Everlast, I see something that reads:

Voltage/Phase: 120/240 1 PHASE
Maximum running amps: 25A @ 240V
Max Start Input Amps: 30.8A @ 240V


So, would a set of 30 amp breakers for the 220 lines be sufficient? Does it hurt anything to go with 40amp breakers (and appropriate wire gauge)?

[AKweldshop]

Ok, so next week my landlord and I are going to run 220 into the garage. We've already run new wires and upgraded the 15amp breaker to a 30amp for the 110 plugs a few weeks ago, now we'll run new wires and put in a additional plugs for 220.

So, I only have two machines that can plug into 220. A Lincoln 180 Dual, and a Everlast 200DV Dual.

The specs on the Lincoln state:

Input Power: 120/1/60 or 208/230/1/60
Input Current: 20A


And for the Everlast, I see something that reads:

Voltage/Phase: 120/240 1 PHASE
Maximum running amps: 25A @ 240V
Max Start Input Amps: 30.8A @ 240V


So, would a set of 30 amp breakers for the 220 lines be sufficient? Does it hurt anything to go with 40amp breakers (and appropriate wire gauge)?

Well,
Are you going to be getting more, maybe bigger equipment later???
I don't think you'll need to worry about that 0.8 amp.
You won't work that machine very hard.

~John

[danielbuck]

Ok, so next week my landlord and I are going to run 220 into the garage. We've already run new wires and upgraded the 15amp breaker to a 30amp for the 110 plugs a few weeks ago, now we'll run new wires and put in a additional plugs for 220.

So, I only have two machines that can plug into 220. A Lincoln 180 Dual, and a Everlast 200DV Dual.

The specs on the Lincoln state:

Input Power: 120/1/60 or 208/230/1/60
Input Current: 20A


And for the Everlast, I see something that reads:

Voltage/Phase: 120/240 1 PHASE
Maximum running amps: 25A @ 240V
Max Start Input Amps: 30.8A @ 240V


So, would a set of 30 amp breakers for the 220 lines be sufficient? Does it hurt anything to go with 40amp breakers (and appropriate wire gauge)?

Well,
Are you going to be getting more, maybe bigger equipment later???
I don't think you'll need to worry about that 0.8 amp.
You won't work that machine very hard.

~John

I'm not sure if I'll have bigger equipment later or not. Does it hurt anything to have the breaker and wires setup for higher amps?

[Superiorwelding]

Just keep in mind the function of a breaker. If you use a higher amperage breaker, when something goes wrong the breaker will not trip and something else will give.
-Jonathan

[MinnesotaDave]

Just keep in mind the function of a breaker. If you use a higher amperage breaker, when something goes wrong the breaker will not trip and something else will give.
-Jonathan

It's always been told to me the breaker is just there to protect the wiring in the wall - thus they are matched.
Think about how many things around a house and shop that are less amps than the breaker.
I could be remembering wrong, but an electrician around here will chime in eventually

[Superiorwelding]

Just keep in mind the function of a breaker. If you use a higher amperage breaker, when something goes wrong the breaker will not trip and something else will give.
-Jonathan

It's always been told to me the breaker is just there to protect the wiring in the wall - thus they are matched.
Think about how many things around a house and shop that are less amps than the breaker.
I could be remembering wrong, but an electrician around here will chime in eventually

I am not a electrician either but what I meant was exactly what you were referring to. If you have a 30 amp machine with a 40 amp breaker, the wire will fry, melt, catch on fire, etc, before a breaker would trip stopping this from happening.
My 2 cents.
-Jonathan

[AKweldshop]

Here's a little something to chew on...

I used to have a big 300amp Airco bumble box, that was given to me.
It said right on the data plate, "needs 80amps of input power, for 300amps, at 80%duty cycle".
I'm pretty sure.

I burned tons of 5/32 7024, about 200-250amps on a 50amp 230 volt outlet....

Never tripped the breaker....

I'm not an electrician....

just saying...

~John

[MinnesotaDave]

Just keep in mind the function of a breaker. If you use a higher amperage breaker, when something goes wrong the breaker will not trip and something else will give.
-Jonathan

It's always been told to me the breaker is just there to protect the wiring in the wall - thus they are matched.
Think about how many things around a house and shop that are less amps than the breaker.
I could be remembering wrong, but an electrician around here will chime in eventually

I am not a electrician either but what I meant was exactly what you were referring to. If you have a 30 amp machine with a 40 amp breaker, the wire will fry, melt, catch on fire, etc, before a breaker would trip stopping this from happening.
My 2 cents.
-Jonathan

I would respectfully disagree.
In my opinion, a 30 amp machine would not melt down 40 amp wire unless it malfunctioned and there was a high enough draw to do so - which would trip the breaker.
Since I'm a layman for electrical I reiterate, this is only my opinion.

[Otto Nobedder]

The breaker, in a well-designed system, will trip at 1/4 the "ultimate" current capacity of the length and size of wire it feeds. It's a safety factor. The "ultimate" limit is the rated temperature of the insulation. The manufacturer who rated the insulation also padded his numbers with a safety factor, probably 1.5X the rating listed.

As an example (NOT A RECOMMENDATION!), you could replace a 15A breaker in a circuit that meets code with a 30A breaker, and STILL trip the breaker before the wire gets noticably warm. That's why these codes exist. Suppose your breaker "sticks" because it's been in service, never tripped, for fifteen years. Suppose it's now "stuck", and takes twice the rated current to make it trip. (This happens.) Your circuit is still protected below it's capacity.

Steve S

[coldman]

The circuit breaker is a part of the whole circuit which must be looked at in entirety when considering the proposed duty. So if you decide that a 100amp circuit is adequate to power your shop (knowing what electrical loads are likely to be connected at the same time) the whole circuit is sized to 100amps including wiring and breaker. The installing electrician will also check that your incommer from the street and everything inbetween the incommer and your circuit is also capable of taking this new circuit in line with regulations and upgrade if necessary. This is why fixed wiring should only be done by a licenced electrician.
Back to the topic. If an item of equipment goes faulty, this means it is either open circuit (just won't work at all) or short circuit (active connected directly to neutral or earth) which is usually accompanied by the big bang and smoke. A short circuit will draw in every last amp available from the circuit (far above rated current) causing the breaker to trip. This will not damage other equipment on the same circuit because these other items in good order will only draw what they consume. Any damage to fixed wiring is mostly near the short circuit because of local over heating. The rest of the circuit will have been protected by the fast acting breaker.

[Superiorwelding]

Dave,
Thank you for the respectful disagree. I admit I am not the best on electrical. I don't knowing I said what I wanted correctly, an I am probably still wrong
Ok what I meant was if you were to take a 15 amp breaker that is wired with 15 amp wire and switch to a 30 amp breaker thinking this will solve tripping problems, when something shorts out on the machine or you reach the 15 amp max, something else will give before the breaker trips. I do know about the safety factors built into things.
If I am still off base I whole heartily admit I am wrong and maybe I shouldn't answer electrical questions. As a side note, they want to send me to a class on electrical, I am excited but also not so sure about it.
-Jonathan

[danielbuck]

What is a little confusing to me though, is that BOTH the Lincoln and the Everlast welders that I have use a NEMA 6-50 plug (as best I can tell anyway) on their 220v cables, which is a 50 amp plug.

I suppose there is no reason I can't put a 50 amp outlet on a 30 amp breaker and 10 gauge wire if the machines don't require more than 30 input amps? Instead of cutting the wires and connecting in a 30 amp plug on each of them, it would probably be easier (and cheaper) to just get a 50 amp 6-50 outlet. Right? I'm only going to have one outlet on that breaker, I'm not going to run the two machines at the same time, and I don't ever leave anything significant plugged in when I'm not in the garage (accept for the lights, haha!)

Wonder why they come with 50 amp plugs, but are only rated for 20 or 30 input amps? Are the NEMA 6-50 outlets just more common?


the 220 cable is on the right (obviously)

[AKweldshop]

Danial,

That plug may say 50amps on it, but if the machine only needs 30 amps.....

That I had an Everlast 160sth, with the same plug as yours, I ran it off a 20amp 230 line.
I also ran my HH 190, which also had a plug like yours....

IMG_2664.JPG (123.46 KiB) Viewed 2122 times

IMG_2660.JPG (94.67 KiB) Viewed 2122 times

[AKweldshop]

I have had all my machines wired with than Nema 6-50p, most welder come with that plug.

If you have a 30amp 230 line, and a machine that needs 30amps, just plug it in.

Do you have the receptacle like mine???

[danielbuck]

I have had all my machines wired with than Nema 6-50p, most welder come with that plug.

If you have a 30amp 230 line, and a machine that needs 30amps, just plug it in.

Do you have the receptacle like mine???

I don't have any receptacle right now, that's what I was trying to find out, which one I should pick up, one that matches the amperage of the 30amp breaker, or one that matches the 6-50 plugs I have. Sounds like picking up the 6-50 receptacle is what I should do.

[AKweldshop]

I have had all my machines wired with than Nema 6-50p, most welder come with that plug.

If you have a 30amp 230 line, and a machine that needs 30amps, just plug it in.

Do you have the receptacle like mine???

I don't have any receptacle right now, that's what I was trying to find out, which one I should pick up, one that matches the amperage of the 30amp breaker, or one that matches the 6-50 plugs I have. Sounds like picking up the 6-50 receptacle is what I should do.

Buy a receptacle like in my picture.