Hardfacing/surfacing

jwright650 · Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:15 pm

Has anyone here had any luck building back the flights on drill rig augers? The company I work for has a small geotechnical drill rig to retrieve soil samples at different depths and the augers are wore out and need to be built back up. I'd post a picture but being a newbie to the forum, I'm unsure that would be viewed until I get a reasonable post count built up.

nickn372 · Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:28 pm

Most likely it isn't going to come down to "can it be done" but more like "new parts are cheaper than repairing the old ones". You have to figure in that your time and consumables all cost the company money. Now should a new auger cost $30,000 then you may have room to work with. How much would they need built up? I do some auger rebuilds in the ag industry that may lend you an idea but more info on your augers (like diameter and thickness etc..) would help.

Shield Arc · Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:37 am

I've done quite a bit of drilling. We always built up with 7018, then added a little hard facing.
You don't run down to the hardware store and buy a new one of these.

jwright650 · Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:50 am

LOL, that "little rig" is a touch larger than ours.

This is a small CME rig, the derrick is about 20' +/-, these hollow augers are 2.25" ID, not sure about the OD of the flights on a new auger, but these are getting pretty worn. The bolt where you connect them to each other, well..., the head sticks out beyond the flights.

a side note:
When I first started working for my current employer I was on a job where they used track-hoes with 36" augers and drilled (697) 40' deep holes for "geo-piers" on a site where the soil wouldn't support the weight of the parking structure going in on top.

nickn372 · Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:05 am

If they are that small and that worn I would replace them. The pics of the ones shield arc put up would be different. For the augers I fix we use manganese plate to add a new wear area the the old auger and we can get them back to the correct diameter. Small core bits are much more easily replaced. Maybe on the new one you do a couple beads of preventative hard facing. Just a thought.

Shield Arc · Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:26 am

On this project we were driving these 10-feet diameter pipe over 200-feet into the ground. Drive a section, then weld another section on. Once they were to depth, then we drilled them out, placed a rebar cage in them, and poured them full of concrete.

jwright650 · Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:32 am

nickn372 wrote:Maybe on the new one you do a couple beads of preventative hard facing. Just a thought.

Thanks Nick, might suggest that to the boss.
On the new cutting heads, I've been touching up the hard surfacing as soon as we see that get worn so we don't have to build it way back up beforehand to restore them to a "useable"(still able to hold in the new teeth) condition.

All of this drilling, and soil testing (geotechnical) work is new to me...so I'm learning as I go. I came from a structural steel fab shop background.

Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:32 pm

Also for build up, hard surfacing, flame spraying is an option. Not in the field but can save time on medium to medium large itens.

Mick

cole5969 · Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:20 am

I'm having trouble with this hardfacing stuff and was wondering if anyone might give me a little help. I'm using Lincoln Electric Wearshield 60 rods and no matter how high I turn the amps the bead just sits on top of the build up and won't spread out. Plus when I turn it as high as the welder will go(225amps) about halfway through the rod it starts to glow red.I'm using Lincoln Electric Excalibur 7018's for build up. I've tried preheat but that didn't really help. I'm only 15 but I'm a decent welder. My dad is the one doing most of this and its got him on nerves end. A little help would be much appreciated. Thanks. P.S. I'm running them on DCEP.

taz · Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:13 am

I have no idea how to run these rods but this is the information from the manufacturer that might be of help to you.

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/g ... /c7109.pdf

"The correct welding technique is a vertical electrode with a 3.2 - 4.8 mm (1/8 - 3/16 in) arc length. The large ball on the end of the electrode should never touch the puddle. This technique will give a smooth transfer, low spatter and smooth bead."

Braehill · Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:07 am

Cole,
Taz is on the right track here. Any hard surface rod that I've used I had to use a fairly long arc to get them to flatten out. They are inherently a build up rod and a short arc will make them rope up. They make rods that are better suited for under these rods than a 7018 but it's been a very long time since I used them and don't remember their names right now, sorry. They all seem to have quite a bit of splatter though the weldsheild are better than most in that area.

Len

jwright650 · Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:21 am

cole5969 wrote:I'm having trouble with this hardfacing stuff and was wondering if anyone might give me a little help. I'm using Lincoln Electric Wearshield 60 rods and no matter how high I turn the amps the bead just sits on top of the build up and won't spread out. Plus when I turn it as high as the welder will go(225amps) about halfway through the rod it starts to glow red.I'm using Lincoln Electric Excalibur 7018's for build up. I've tried preheat but that didn't really help. I'm only 15 but I'm a decent welder. My dad is the one doing most of this and its got him on nerves end. A little help would be much appreciated. Thanks. P.S. I'm running them on DCEP.

I used a "A/C" abrasion resistant rod that worked fairly well. It performed just as you stated, however if you long arc it, the bead laid out flat and blended/wetted in good. Keep the welder turned down so the rod doesn't glow, because the flux will just fall off once the rod starts glowing.

cole5969 · Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:50 am

Thanks guys! I tried it and it worked like a charm! Holding such a long arc is going to take some getting used to.

cole5969 · Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:18 am

Just one more question. My dad got some lincore 60 G fcaw wire. We couldn't get that to work either so now its just a 40lb. paper weight. We weld it just like mig except for no gas as it is flux cored. The problem is that as we're welding the puddle will just ball up and fall off. It is very(and I mean very) aggravating. Ya reckon its like the wearshield and we just need to hold the gun a little farther away.Thanks.

DennisZ · Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:33 am

cole5969 wrote:Just one more question. My dad got some lincore 60 G fcaw wire. We couldn't get that to work either so now its just a 40lb. paper weight. We weld it just like mig except for no gas as it is flux cored. The problem is that as we're welding the puddle will just ball up and fall off. It is very(and I mean very) aggravating. Ya reckon its like the wearshield and we just need to hold the gun a little farther away.Thanks.

I am no expert but i think flux core is reversed polarity. Did you check that?

GreinTime · Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:43 am

DennisZ wrote:
cole5969 wrote:Just one more question. My dad got some lincore 60 G fcaw wire. We couldn't get that to work either so now its just a 40lb. paper weight. We weld it just like mig except for no gas as it is flux cored. The problem is that as we're welding the puddle will just ball up and fall off. It is very(and I mean very) aggravating. Ya reckon its like the wearshield and we just need to hold the gun a little farther away.Thanks.

I am no expert but i think flux core is reversed polarity. Did you check that?

Flux core is indeed opposite polarity from MIG welding. In order to properly burn the Flux to create adequate shielding, polarity is DCEP, so your work lead (ground) would be connected to the negative* terminal and your electrode (torch in this case) is connected to the positive* terminal. Almost all MIG welders are shipped set up for FCAW, and it is up to the end user (or welding store) to change the leads around if the end user is going to weld MIG.

The only thing I'm not sure about would be DualShield applications, where you weld Flux core with a shielding gas. That would be better left to @AKWeldShop or @Superiorwelding.

taz · Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:11 am

Lincore 60-G is a FCAW-G type of wire meaning it is Gas Shielded Flux Cored wire (or dual shield as you guys call it)
So if you are trying using it without gas it is normal you are having problems.
Mig/mag and dual shield is DC(+)
Flux cored without gas is (DC-)

GreinTime · Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:19 pm

I edited my reply, it was late last night and I was tired lol. Sorry about any confusion.

Superiorwelding · Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:16 pm

taz wrote:Lincore 60-G is a FCAW-G type of wire meaning it is Gas Shielded Flux Cored wire (or dual shield as you guys call it)
So if you are trying using it without gas it is normal you are having problems.
Mig/mag and dual shield is DC(+)
Flux cored without gas is (DC-)

Technically that last statement is not correct.

"Flux cored without gas is (DC-)" First the flux coating creates the gas shielding therefore it is not without gas. Also, there are self-shielded wires (no pressurized gas assistance) that run on DCEP and DCEN.
Here for your pleasure are the data sheets for the two fillers mentioned as well as a wire my LWS had me play with that is self-shielded and runs DCEP.
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/g ... /c7109.pdf
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/g ... c71013.pdf
https://www.nationalwelding.com.au/cata ... 052266.pdf
-Jonathan

taz · Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:56 pm

Superiorwelding wrote: "Flux cored without gas is (DC-)" First the flux coating creates the gas shielding therefore it is not without gas. Also, there are self-shielded wires (no pressurized gas assistance) that run on DCEP and DCEN.

Flux cored without external gas shielding. Better now?

If you want to get technical the same goes for flux cored with external gas shielding. T5 designator wires as well as many metal cored (GMAW-C) can be used in DC(-) also.
I was trying to give general directions. Next time I will not make that mistake and I will let loose all my welding Kung Fu

Superiorwelding · Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:37 pm

taz wrote:
Superiorwelding wrote: "Flux cored without gas is (DC-)" First the flux coating creates the gas shielding therefore it is not without gas. Also, there are self-shielded wires (no pressurized gas assistance) that run on DCEP and DCEN.
Flux cored without external gas shielding. Better now?

If you want to get technical the same goes for flux cored with external gas shielding. T5 designator wires as well as many metal cored (GMAW-C) can be used in DC(-) also.
I was trying to give general directions. Next time I will not make that mistake and I will let loose all my welding Kung Fu

Well, I have been warned.
-Jonathan

Wyogoose · Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:15 am

I have had good luck with 4IP. It is a stick rod from Lincoln. primarily for metal to metal but does very well on metal to earth in my experience. It burns like 7018. 2 pass buildup if I remember correctly. I used it on a scrap metal shear and out done Study by a long ways. I ran it over 11018 buildup.