[VincenzioVonHook]

Hi. I'm going to bring up the age old whip and pause debate for a moment.

I have been building working for a mate building trailers for a year or so now and have been using a CIG 250 Transmig the whole time. I can lay some mean beads with the beast and have grown quite fond o whip and pause while MIG welding.

I have picked up some work in my own time making generator housings and a large lot of work benches out the back of his shop (which is 200km from home!!!!, no mig for me). He is leasing a shed and holding for a company which will be removing their goods next week. In the meantime I am fabricating on a large piece of plate in a yard....a lot of wind. He wants all the workbenches ready before his shed is free so all is action on next monday. I have decided to use my unimig 140 DC inverted as the whole project will be mainly 35x35x2/ 3mm sheeting for benches, and 2mm sheeting for the generator housings........the channel frames have already been welded, up.

He is picky about his outward appearance (understands the limitations of stick welding though, and the fact I am working for free at this point to help out!) and likes all his welds looking like a stack of dimes. I know you are not supposed to whip and pause 7014, but he insists they match a few test pieces he was looking in my shed.

Here's the dilemma. I have only started to stick weld yesterday and I know the basics behind rods, flux and materials. I have only pulled a few welds (probably 10) in the last day, and messed around with 6010 and 6013 CIG rods, both 3/32. It didn't seem to hard and i'm quite happy with the results. Id be happy for free as well. (These are all stringers obviously, 3mm flat in T joints using CIG GP 6013's)

Fillet (6013 80A)

fillet_1[1].jpg (30.8 KiB) Viewed 2908 times

fillet (6013 85A)

fillet_2[1].jpg (37.43 KiB) Viewed 2908 times

Here's where things get hazy. I was mucking around with 6010 and whip/pausing on some sheet (3mm) so i didn't blow through. Welds came out nice and hap a wicked set of dimes/v's depending on spacing. Tried with the 6013 and it looked even better.....kinda like mig welds. No undercut, perfectly flat, even toe. I have heard that this is a huge no-no with 6013/7014 and such. I did a few bends ob the press, and a few smashed with the sledge with stringers and whip and pauses (both 6013) and all were within a general margin of error. Some of the whip and pause dime welds held better, some worse. I have cut a few into sections and there is no slag inclusions mid weld. A few tiny bits at the start/restart areas though (about the size of a grain of sugar right in the corner).

6013 whip/pause

fillet_w_and_p[1].jpg (32.49 KiB) Viewed 2908 times

My mate really likes the look of the dimes when primed and painted. Very slick. I don't want to get in a bad habit though. It's not my steel, my money and so on. What do I do? If it is not structural, and there is no inclusion, is their any harm in whip and pausing sheet with general position rods? I ran a few 7014 rods and they looked like heaven with a whip and pause. I have only been stick welding for a day though, and don't want to get in a habit of this if it is seriously frowned upon. I can alo weave them and get a nice pattern. Not sure if that is accepted or not. From what i noticed, at 85A the arc has enough force to push the slag a fair bit behind the forming pool, and as long as i don't dip into the slag, inclusions don't happen (different story at 75A). I tried a few murex Speedex 13 rods and they were impossible to whip and pause as the slag would run up the arc instantly when you back up to reinforce, and if you do do it perfectly, there is still minor inclusions mid weld.

Again, these are not structural in any way. The workbenches are that overbuilt they could support a engine block with a few tacks! on each corner. The generator's will be rented out and have his company name all over so he is more worried about presentation.

Thanks for the help, and reading through my wall of text. I have only started to stick weld yesterday, and would like to clarify a little on critical vs non critical techniques, and whether I am leading myself to a laughing stock. I showed a mate a few of the welds and he assumed they were migged, and when i told him they were 6013 whip and pause he looked at me like I was Charles Manson......then got me to run a fillet on 6mm plate (1/8 7014 at 125A), smacked it around, etched it and ate his words of "guaranteed inclusion/lack of penetration"

Basically, will I get eaten alive if i did this at work one day? Keep in mind I am not a qualified welder....just a 2nd class welder who normally stitches up 1.6mm/2.5mm sheet on trailers! No formal training. Just helping out a mate setting up a new business (after the last welders disappeared mid job after being paid...)

[Poland308]

Whip and pause is a relative term. If your keeping the the whip and pause small you should be ok. If you whip ahead or back to fast you will start to see porosity or slag inclusions. Some people like to move side to side or forward and back or just a steady drag but the reality is you have to move. Keep up the practice as you go along you may want to grind back into your start or stop points if your going to have porosity or slag it will usually be at that point.

[VincenzioVonHook]

Whip and pause is a relative term. If your keeping the the whip and pause small you should be ok. If you whip ahead or back to fast you will start to see porosity or slag inclusions. Some people like to move side to side or forward and back or just a steady drag but the reality is you have to move. Keep up the practice as you go along you may want to grind back into your start or stop points if your going to have porosity or slag it will usually be at that point.

Ill Try grind back where i restart. Im basically just starting a cm forward and long arcing back...... I noticed when i finish an electrode it leaves a nice smooth cap on the end of the bead, but it looks like there is a tiny hole right in the corner where it hasn't fused. I can't really speak from experience, as i've only burnt a handful of electrodes this morning, but im pretty sure that's my culprit. I cut a few 20cm T joints every 20mm and they were all good mid weld.

Thanks for clearing up movement a bit though. Im only whipping the tiniest bit as you can see with the 6013 fillets, but the 6010 i had to crazy whip as it was eating the 4mm steel at 75A (butt weld). Judging by most of most people's faces when i mention 6013 let alone whipped 6013 i thought i might explode the second i whipping the god damned thing, or the joint would self destruct the second a sparrow farts on the c***.

Only had 3 6010's, and ran them first. My god did i get a shock when i initially set them up at 85A for 4mm steel, it was basically a gouging rod.......6013's seem childsplay in comparison, nice a quiet, smooth and shiny! Im only welding 2mm/3mm sheet and non critical 4mm RHS at max at home so i'm not quite sure why everyone is so intent on me buying 7018 at the moment.......i think ill just stick with the good old (and cheap) CIG GP 6013 rods until i need to do something other than benches and 2mm sheeting.

[Poland308]

Try the 7018. You'll like it. But with that you need to keep the whip even less. For something as thin as what your working on I'd use a 7018 3/32 running about 75-85 amps. It will give you a much cleaner looking weld.

[VincenzioVonHook]

Try the 7018. You'll like it. But with that you need to keep the whip even less. For something as thin as what your working on I'd use a 7018 3/32 running about 75-85 amps. It will give you a much cleaner looking weld.

If it gives a cleaner weld i might give it a try. I noticed the 6010 has more pronounced ripples and a greyer bead finish....the 6013's are far smoother and almost polish when hit with the wire wheel. The one thing im not liking so far is the hell thick baked on layer of slag.....my butt welds almost peel, but my fillets are covered in a (almost 2mm) thick porous layer of slag which needs a grinder and wire wheel to clean.

They come out looking fine, but mate, are they a bastard to clean.

[Poland308]

image.jpeg (60.13 KiB) Viewed 2886 times

This was a pic I posted in another thread. It's just a stand I threw together. It's thicker than what your welding on but that's 7018.

[VincenzioVonHook]

Im watching some arc time on youtube (7018) and the pool/slag looks a hell of a lot easier to distinguish!!!! I tried a few runs on 6mm steel (pipe to plate i had laying around) this arvo and noticed your welds are more convex than mine. Is that down to travel speed or settings? Pretty much all my fillets have been flat. Some wider, but all flat. It was bugging me

Hell nice welds though (above). I haven't much to go by, but running practice beads was easy until i tried overlapping a few fillets........

[Poland308]

7018 is very responsive to amp, travel speed, weave, and rod angle. I run a lot of 3/32 at 75-85 amp range. Depending on the machine and material. But in that range you can run almost any position. If your beads were real flat then you were probably either moving too fast or were set real hot. If you run on the hot side 7018 flattens out. Not always a bad thing. That's also a series of stringers 3 or 4. I think. You can weave from side to side with it and make wide beads that look 3/4 in wide or smal beads not much thicker than your rod diameter.