[Edgewalker]

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Hello, I am trying to figure out how I am getting slag inclusions on these lap welds using 1/8 inch 6013 vertical down at 120 to 125 amps. This is part of my welding class and my professor does not want to spend a lot of time on 6013. I get that but I still want to master all aspects of welding. I did these with a Miller Transformer-rectifier not sure what model. My professor believes I am changing my rod angle, but I feel pretty consistent. I am making some very good welds with 6010,7018. I almost forgot, the polarity I used is DCEN. Thanks for your time. I really appreciate any help.

[weldin mike 27]

Its the nature of the beast. They are not designed for vert down. You "professor" should know that, Though you need some 6012s for vert down on GP electrodes.

Mick

[MinnesotaDave]

I tend to disagree Mike, 6013's that I've used were designed for vert down and did quite well. (USA versions)
Upper ranges of amp setting, pointing rod up more than usual, and faster travel speed than other positions were the key.

[Edgewalker]

Doesn't the "1" in 6013 mean "all-positions" ? Any way, we did all the rods in flat and horizontal. Now we are doing vertical.I know its not the best choice for vertical, but it is possible and that is the point of the exercise I believe, to become familiar with the characteristics of each rod. My welds are proof that it is possible. The flaws are at the beginning and end, yet the center is fine. I'm doing something wrong at the beginning and end of the weld, but what? Arc length, rod angle, too fast, too slow? I have book smarts and some experience with GMAW but SMAW is a whole new thing for me, and I was hoping that in accordance with forums title, I would pick up a few tips and learn a few tricks.

[Coldman]

I think you are doing a good job so far. 6013 is notorious for wormholing (ie slag inclusions) and really is the nature of the beast in all positions. That's one reason why (among a few other reasons) they are not used much in industry. Mind you I have seen old school pipe welders make awesome caps on butts with 6013 rods.
So it boils down to practice and it is also likely you are doing something different at those locations such as long arcing or rod angle. The only way you can find out if you get some one to watch you or even better set up your mobile phone to record your weld so you can see for yourself what's going on.
I find its best to keep the the amps up and keep a tight arc when using 6013 rods

Another thing you will find is that 6013 posts on this forum (and others) extracts all kinds of responses from people so don't be surprised at what crops up. For example if you talk to AK about 6013, he gets all emotional.

[MinnesotaDave]

What Coldman said about higher amps and close arc are the keys in my experience also.

Too low of amps and worm holes are a common result in my opinion. The slag overtakes the puddle.

[Edgewalker]

Thanks for the advice guys. I'm gonna keep at it till I get it right. I have a feeling it might be my angle.

[Louie1961]

why down? Trying going vertical up, I am sure it will be a lot better.

[Otto Nobedder]

why down? Trying going vertical up, I am sure it will be a lot better.

Because he's in class, and it's what the teacher asked him to do...

Steve S

[Louie1961]

Because he's in class, and it's what the teacher asked him to do...

Maybe I am being too literal, but he didn't actually say that his instructor told him he had to go vertical down. All he said was his instructor doesn't want to spend time on 6013 and he is trying it anyway.

[Otto Nobedder]

When he said, "...Now we are doing vertical..." I assumed the "we" was the whole class.

I may be mistaken, but he seemed adamant on that point.

Steve S

[Edgewalker]

Yes, the whole class was doing vertical with 6010, 7018, 6013. I don't see how I could have done 6013 vertical up. The weld was very liquid and and I had to move fast or else the weld metal would pool up and fall like a rain drop. it was frustrating because I thought it was perfect, but then I chipped the slag away and there were slag inclusions. Mr. Pinckney, my professor said the machine I was on probably didn't help, and that I do too well on the new Inverters, so he has been putting me on the older machines to increase the difficulty. He is an awesome professor, and very knowledgeable. Once I get something he challenges me with new twist.

[Otto Nobedder]

Vertical up is quite possible (and usually preferred) with 6013. It's a different animal from running it down, as you've seen, but once you figure it out, you'll wonder why it seemed so hard at first.

Steve S

[MinnesotaDave]

Yes, the whole class was doing vertical with 6010, 7018, 6013. I don't see how I could have done 6013 vertical up. The weld was very liquid and and I had to move fast or else the weld metal would pool up and fall like a rain drop. it was frustrating because I thought it was perfect, but then I chipped the slag away and there were slag inclusions. Mr. Pinckney, my professor said the machine I was on probably didn't help, and that I do too well on the new Inverters, so he has been putting me on the older machines to increase the difficulty. He is an awesome professor, and very knowledgeable. Once I get something he challenges me with new twist.

Sounds like you are experiencing the reverse of what I went through.
I learned in the 80's on transformer machines and kept using them until a few years ago when I started using inverters too.
They didn't weld the same and took me a little getting used to them.

Here is an article that helped clear up the differences for me.
https://www.millerwelds.com/resources/a ... poses?vm=r

[Edgewalker]

So that's why the dig is always set to zero when I come in after the TIG class.