[Farmwelding]

An instructor from the local tech school came to our high school today and did some assessment and demonstrations and dripped off a bunch of stuff. Aluminum and steel drops, some tig filler, and a 25 lb box of 3/32" Excalibur 7018s. All we have at school is an old Airco AC buzzbox and I know it is possible to run 7018s on AC but I'm looking for tips. Any advice for running them on AC. Amps, technique, angle, anything at all will help

[Otto Nobedder]

An instructor from the local tech school came to our high school today and did some assessment and demonstrations and dripped off a bunch of stuff. Aluminum and steel drops, some tig filler, and a 25 lb box of 3/32" Excalibur 7018s. All we have at school is an old Airco AC buzzbox and I know it is possible to run 7018s on AC but I'm looking for tips. Any advice for running them on AC. Amps, technique, angle, anything at all will help

No student will ever go into the field and weld 7018 on AC. Yes, they make a so-called 7018AC rod, but it will not meet any code that will pay a welder real money.

This needs to be taught on a DC machine.

Steve S

[Farmwelding]

Yes I know and that was the first thing I told my teacher-we should get a DC stick machine. But that's bot going to happen unless I run the old Airco at 180 amps for 10 hours straight and then do that to the other old Airco. All I know is that we have 25 lb of them and they are all mine probably so any rod I can burn is helpful just to get the whole arc length and rod angle down.

Although it's funny... I don't know why but we probably have 20 lbs of 6010 electrodes in the back room and have always only had the Aircos. Fun fact-they don't run well on AC. That's what happens when I get bored I try new things just to get more hood time. I figure 25 lbs will keep me busy and out of my teachers hair

[Poleframer]

Hah, here's an opportunity to show you can do what it takes to get er done. Get some big diodes (only takes 4 of them), I got a box of them that would do, and make a bridge rectifier, like the one Jody has on the AC buzzbox in one of his vids, and walla...DC
REALLY isnt rocket science, and would be a good project if you can, then burn 7018 to your hearts desire.
Probably wouldnt have to do it in a real welding shop, but you gotta learn how to make the best of what ya have and show brain power, which is really what counts.

[Farmwelding]

Nope... didnt go-our buzz box will not run them. Tried for a half an hour and nothing

[MinnesotaDave]

Nope... didnt go-our buzz box will not run them. Tried for a half an hour and nothing

Strange, I've run them on the cheap AC 225 Lincolns and a Century 225/125 buzz box (plus a couple others).

They were a little harder to start and took a longer scratch than usual, went out now and then but overall ran OK.

Wouldn't want to do it all the time though.

One thing I noticed is that machines with a high/low tap needed to be on the low range side.

The low range side has higher OCV which translated into a higher welding voltage (7018 likes voltage ).

[Farmwelding]

Nope... didnt go-our buzz box will not run them. Tried for a half an hour and nothing

Strange, I've run them on the cheap AC 225 Lincolns and a Century 225/125 buzz box (plus a couple others).

They were a little harder to start and took a longer scratch than usual, went out now and then but overall ran OK.

Wouldn't want to do it all the time though.

One thing I noticed is that machines with a high/low tap needed to be on the low range side.

The low range side has higher OCV which translated into a higher welding voltage (7018 likes voltage ).

Yeah, about an hour I posted that I thought about switching the leads since it has a low and high side. Ill give it a go here in another hour or so and try it.

[MinnesotaDave]

Strange, I've run them on the cheap AC 225 Lincolns and a Century 225/125 buzz box (plus a couple others).

They were a little harder to start and took a longer scratch than usual, went out now and then but overall ran OK.

Wouldn't want to do it all the time though.

One thing I noticed is that machines with a high/low tap needed to be on the low range side.

The low range side has higher OCV which translated into a higher welding voltage (7018 likes voltage ).

Yeah, about an hour I posted that I thought about switching the leads since it has a low and high side. Ill give it a go here in another hour or so and try it.

Interesting side note: In general with either AC or DC, when switched to high range, which is low OCV, the puddle behaves similar to when running an SA-200 on a higher coarse range/low fine.

In general, 7018 does not prefer this setting on an SA-200, they like lower coarse range/high fine.

I've done this (used the high range) with Miller Dialarcs to make a 6010 vertical up puddle less fluid for a student.

[Poland308]

Just for you farmer.

I ran about 5# of 3/32 7018 DC and then 2# of 3/32 7018 AC. The arc force and amps all the same. I found the AC stuff to have a hard arc start.Compared to the D.C. Plus it seamed as though the weld was more like a 6013. It was spongy compared to other 7018 on D.C.

[Otto Nobedder]

Just for you farmer.

I ran about 5# of 3/32 7018 DC and then 2# of 3/32 7018 AC. The arc force and amps all the same. I found the AC stuff to have a hard arc start.Compared to the D.C. Plus it seamed as though the weld was more like a 6013. It was spongy compared to other 7018 on D.C.

That's why I like this place.
Someone will take a minute to do the experiment, and report the results.

Steve S

[Farmwelding]

Well... Either way it wouldn't go in our machine for some reason. I used both the high and low side and changed the amps around and nothing went. So now all I have to do is hope we can get a DC stick welder.

[MinnesotaDave]

Went out and made about 8 passes for you on AC.

1/8" 7018, old rod not in oven, welded fine from 135-150 amps AC.
135 amps for vertical up.

5/32" 7018, 150 amps AC.

Only real issue is getting it lit. Then you're golden.
"Pool cue" it for strike acuracy and to warm it up.

First welder I bought (1995) - after an oxy/acetylene that is.

image.jpeg (45.82 KiB) Viewed 5544 times

Nothing special, about 8 passes, maybe more.
2 rod sizes, flat and vertical up.

image.jpeg (50.94 KiB) Viewed 5544 times

[Farmwelding]

Went out and made about 8 passes for you on AC.

1/8" 7018, old rod not in oven, welded fine from 135-150 amps AC.
135 amps for vertical up.

5/32" 7018, 150 amps AC.

Only real issue is getting it lit. Then you're golden.
"Pool cue" it for strike acuracy and to warm it up.

First welder I bought (1995) - after an oxy/acetylene that is.

image.jpeg

Nothing special, about 8 passes, maybe more.
2 rod sizes, flat and vertical up.

image.jpeg

What do you mean pool cue the electrode. Never heard that term.

[MinnesotaDave]

Pool cue means to hold the rod with your other hand down low near the steel.

Gives you fine motor control of the tip so you can control it precise enough to get those rods lit and warmed up on AC.

Otherwise they will often stick and not light.

[Farmwelding]

Pool cue means to hold the rod with your other hand down low near the steel.

Gives you fine motor control of the tip so you can control it precise enough to get those rods lit and warmed up on AC.

Otherwise they will often stick and not light.

That makes a lot more sense than what i thought it meant. Maybe will give it a go on Monday.

[AndersK]

. Maybe will give it a go on Monday.

Just make sure you have a proper glove rated for stick on.
Don't ask.....

[Farmwelding]

. Maybe will give it a go on Monday.

Just make sure you have a proper glove rated for stick on.
Don't ask.....

Don't worry I know why. I accidentally grabbed one somebody had just used for ab1/2" weld with my bare hand the other day and practically melted my hand off.

[AndersK]

He he , no you don't
You can easily hold a used rod with a tig glove but don't pool cue with one. The radiation from the arc is strong enough to give blisters thru a tig glove without even touching any metal.

[MinnesotaDave]

He he , no you don't
You can easily hold a used rod with a tig glove but don't pool cue with one. The radiation from the arc is strong enough to give blisters thru a tig glove without even touching any metal.

Really he should only do this to get it started and warmed up, and then drop his hand back to the stinger in a few seconds.

The start can be really difficult with an AC buzz box.

The Century that I pictured starts them really good on DC in comparison.

If he masters arc starts on AC with that rod, he'll laugh at the simplicity of starting on DC

[Popeye the old miner]

I did some work in an old coal breaker about 40 years ago, all they had was an old ac welder, I couldn't even guess who made it, someone said Westinghouse built it back in the 30s, but no one knew for sure as there was no tag of any kind on it. Anyway they busted the shaker frame, it was made out of heavy 8 inch c channel might have been 3/8 thick or better when it was new. They called me up to do it since I'm a skinny little shit and no one else could fit under the shaker. One thing about coal...it corrodes steel like crazy...sulfuric acid eats it up and what is left is very difficult to weld with a good machine let alone an old antique buzzer from the stone age. They said just get it together so it will run til Friday and we will replace it Saturday...bullshit...I know how miners are I am one, they will keep fixin it til there is more repair weld metal than original steel.

So I got the ol thing all lined up, dogged in place, grinded somewhat shiney and turned on the beast, crawled in side and under the shaker with a handful of 6011s and a handful of 7018s. Uriah the old bird who ran the shaker told me let me know where you want it set at I will turn it where you want it. Ok I said. I fussed a bit with some 1/8 inch 6011s til it ran good and got some steel into the shallow groove I cut with the grinder then slid out and did the same on the outside and on the flanges, then went down to the other end and repeated the process. Meanwhile I heard some smartass remarks we'll find out if this kid can weld, if he can with this ol beast we'll hire the little shit. Now one thing I learned a long time ago about 7018 rods...the next size smaller 7018 will run at just about the same setting as the larger 6011. So now I'm gonna burn 3/32 7018 over top of the 6011 root I didn't have much trouble getting it going, and I will admit I thought it was gonna be a fight but they lit up pretty quick, maybe it was the coal dirt on em who knows. Anyway it stayed together and eventually after 3 or 4 years after fixing various places on both sides of the shaker once a month or so we cut it up and built a whole new shaker water bay, got a new set of cams and bullrigged the whole damn thing in place.

Got hired on full time 2 days after that first repair and never looked back. Don't ever let anyone tell you that you cant do somethin, you never know until you try it for yourself

[Otto Nobedder]

I did some work in an old coal breaker about 40 years ago, all they had was an old ac welder, I couldn't even guess who made it, someone said Westinghouse built it back in the 30s, but no one knew for sure as there was no tag of any kind on it. Anyway they busted the shaker frame, it was made out of heavy 8 inch c channel might have been 3/8 thick or better when it was new. They called me up to do it since I'm a skinny little shit and no one else could fit under the shaker. One thing about coal...it corrodes steel like crazy...sulfuric acid eats it up and what is left is very difficult to weld with a good machine let alone an old antique buzzer from the stone age. They said just get it together so it will run til Friday and we will replace it Saturday...bullshit...I know how miners are I am one, they will keep fixin it til there is more repair weld metal than original steel.

So I got the ol thing all lined up, dogged in place, grinded somewhat shiney and turned on the beast, crawled in side and under the shaker with a handful of 6011s and a handful of 7018s. Uriah the old bird who ran the shaker told me let me know where you want it set at I will turn it where you want it. Ok I said. I fussed a bit with some 1/8 inch 6011s til it ran good and got some steel into the shallow groove I cut with the grinder then slid out and did the same on the outside and on the flanges, then went down to the other end and repeated the process. Meanwhile I heard some smartass remarks we'll find out if this kid can weld, if he can with this ol beast we'll hire the little shit. Now one thing I learned a long time ago about 7018 rods...the next size smaller 7018 will run at just about the same setting as the larger 6011. So now I'm gonna burn 3/32 7018 over top of the 6011 root I didn't have much trouble getting it going, and I will admit I thought it was gonna be a fight but they lit up pretty quick, maybe it was the coal dirt on em who knows. Anyway it stayed together and eventually after 3 or 4 years after fixing various places on both sides of the shaker once a month or so we cut it up and built a whole new shaker water bay, got a new set of cams and bullrigged the whole damn thing in place.

Got hired on full time 2 days after that first repair and never looked back. Don't ever let anyone tell you that you cant do somethin, you never know until you try it for yourself

I LIKE that story. I have a few like it, but not quite like it, in my history. The moral stands. It's not impossible because someone says so.

Steve S

[Farmwelding]

So I tried for another half an hour today and found out new combinations of swearing I have never heard. I had two and half actual beads today as well. The slag doesnt like coming off very well though. I am just going to hope and ray we get a DC stick machine sometime.

[Farmwelding]

Oh and I noticed that the electrodes are actually 7018-1. Does this make a difference for what I'm trying to do?

[MinnesotaDave]

Oh and I noticed that the electrodes are actually 7018-1. Does this make a difference for what I'm trying to do?

It does not, and what did you find when you looked up what the numbers and/or letters after the dash mean?

When I did the samples this weekend I noticed the slag would come off in large chunks, but not a full peel.

Otherwise it was about the same as normal for removal in the 135-150 amp AC range.

A little more spatter, louder, slightly unstable arc, but not too bad.

[Farmwelding]

It appears that 7018-1 means that the weld is stronger at cold temperatures than a normal 7018.

Our buzz box only goes up to around 110-120 in the low range as you recommended but they are 3/32" so don't need that much anyways?

The lag on a t-joint i did required pounding and left a lot of white powder on the weld still and didn't want tor come off. The flat weld came off in small chunks as you said though. Ill keep working on it and when I get to use a 7018 on DC I'm sure I will be laughing at how easy it is. That's the way I usually learnt hings the quickest. DO it the hard way and then you'll appreciate things for what they are worth or never making the same mistake again. Stick before mig-oxy-fuel before tig. Helps put ting is perspective for me.