[RamboBaby]

Ok, so I'm trying to learn open root welding on horizontal plate 3/8" thick with 1/8" land). I bought some 1/8" Lincoln Fleetweld 5P+ for the job (damn they were expensive at my LWS @ $46 for 10 lbs). Problem is that they won't stay lit at 65 amps. 80 amps and they'll run all day long but that's way too hot for me to learn with. I thought the 6010 function on my powertig 255ext just didn't work but tech support told me that I was just trying to run them too cold. 6011 will keep em lit at 65amps.
Should I just learn with the 6011 and then graduate to 6010? If so, then how do I keep the 6010 lit when I switch back to them. This open root stuff is definitely a different animal, and I've only tried it an small handful of times but, I seem to be getting good penetration until the rod goes out. At that point I fall flat on my face because these tie ins are a real muther!@#$%^!
Any and all advice will be greatly appreciated.

[PeteM]

65 amps is cold. 75 is the minimum I've heard recommended for a 3/32 land (root face) with a 3/32 gap. I preferred to run it at 78 or so to get the hang of it, then about 80ish with proficiency.

One trick that the instructor showed me was to toggle the rod (not whipping) back a little to direct the metal back on to the deposited metal or tip it forward a little to open the keyhole if the gap tightened up. Nothing crazy, just a little tilt in either direction. Too much tip makes too much heat.

For tie-ins, get a wheel that is the same with as the root gap. Grind a little ramp (feathering). Strike the arc ahead of the tie in, little bit of long arc to get back to the ramp, then run right back in to the root. Best thing to do is when you come to the end of the rod punch it through the back to snuff out instead of trying to snap out of the weld. This will leave your keyhole to pick back up in to.

[Artie F. Emm]

Does the 255ext have a dedicated 6010 port? I thought i read 6010s do n't run well on inverters unless they have that port.

[RamboBaby]

It doesn't have a dedicated ground like one welder I previously owned had.......it has a toggle button for either "e6010" or "standard".
I'll try sweeping the rod like I do on aluminum tig if that's what you're referring to. I had tried it at 75 amps anx the keyhole was getting out of hand while still snuffing the arc out a few seconds later.
Where should I set that arc force function at? These 60 series rods seem to dig in just fine at 25% (flat root) and 75% blows a ton of reinforcement out the back side. I want to be able to concentrate on laying in the root without having to play with a bunch of settings that I don't understand all that well.
I've also been having trouble with the root drooping on the back side but I'm fairly certain that it has to do with not being able to see the top side of the gap and pointing the rod slightly down because I haven't made myself something to prop on.
Thanks for the replys.

[PeteM]

I can't be sure about other machines, but the last open root I ran was on a miller dynasty. The arc force/dig was set at a little past 12:00 and ran like a champ, so maybe 60%?

The main thing with open root is getting the stick through to the back side without poking it all the way out the other side. You have to listen for it to make a hollow shooooo sound (even on plate). If it isn't doing that the tip isn't placed right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAKoA8ng5-M

This vid by Jody is pretty much text book. He's whipping. I try to drag. Tomatoes/tomatoes. There is also a new vid up on weld dot coms channel that has the sound perfectly. One other thing to keep in mind with 6010 is that the slag forms as it cools, so when the metal is going down, what you see is what you're getting. With the reinforcement on back, the bead should only be filling the root gap to the top of the land (root face). You kind of have to drag the rod a little forward of the pool.

It takes a little bit for it to all come together, but once it does you'll wonder what the big deal was. It's like pulling up a zipper.

edit: Also, don't know if you do it or not but- the back side has to be clean too. You will not get good fusion if the backside has mill scale on it.

edit#2: there is also a vid on the afore mentioned channel that demonstrates dragging open root on plate perfectly. Notice how he leads the pool forward through the weld.

[Poland308]

6010 1/8
1/8 land
3/32 gap
75-85 amps
Burry that rod till it feels like it's going out the back. No whip just a steady pull

[RamboBaby]

I had tried this twice, a couple of years ago, with 6011 and didn't get it out the back side on either try. This hasn't been an issue this go round.
I had been getting a bit of undercut on the back side, at the top of the root, and was wondering if the mill scale had something to do with it. I was more concerned with figuring out how to lay the root in there and was tired from work, so I got lazy.
I actually prefer the feel of whipping to dragging but I haven't seen any real difference between the two at this point. Not sure yet if one is gonna work better for me than the other but whipping is definitely more rythmical.
Now I have to wait til Friday to get more steel to make coupons. I only had enough steel for three sets of coupons and that crap is too hard to clean off with the equipment that I have at my disposal.

Another question:
How hard is it to transition from 2g/3g/4g plate to 6g pipe? I'm thinking that it won't be a big deal once these three open root positions are mastered.

[Poland308]

Changing from any flat plate to pipe is a big jump. Not impossible but a lot different. If you make the jump I would recommend practicing on pipe that's 6 inch or bigger. It's more forgiving because you don't have to change your position as fast in relation to the rod angle / radius of pipe.

[Otto Nobedder]

For 1/8" 5p+ in a 1/8" gap, I run 105A. Yes, that's outside the suggested range by a little bit. For "bury-rod", it puts the root reinforcement where you want it, so long as you keep the rod 90* to the work, and with a good fit I don't need a hood to weld it once I'm started.

Steve

[MinnesotaDave]

For 1/8" 5p+ in a 1/8" gap, I run 105A. Yes, that's outside the suggested range by a little bit. For "bury-rod", it puts the root reinforcement where you want it, so long as you keep the rod 90* to the work, and with a good fit I don't need a hood to weld it once I'm started.

Steve

Going up or going down?
Planning to add some pipe work to next years class and will have to practice up this summer.

[PeteM]

I had tried this twice, a couple of years ago, with 6011 and didn't get it out the back side on either try.
Another question:
How hard is it to transition from 2g/3g/4g plate to 6g pipe? I'm thinking that it won't be a big deal once these three open root positions are mastered.

That varies from person to person. I didn't see it as any big difference, but it does give some people a hell of a time.

[RamboBaby]

For 1/8" 5p+ in a 1/8" gap, I run 105A. Yes, that's outside the suggested range by a little bit. For "bury-rod", it puts the root reinforcement where you want it, so long as you keep the rod 90* to the work, and with a good fit I don't need a hood to weld it once I'm started.

Steve

How in the heck do you weld it without a hood?

[Poland308]

If you keep the rod buried real deep then you can't hardly see the arc. Just the reflection from inside the pipe. Only applies to the root pass.

[Farmwelding]

If you keep the rod buried real deep then you can't hardly see the arc. Just the reflection from inside the pipe. Only applies to the root pass.

And a lot of guys who do it every single day or often and get damn near the same fit up just place it in there and just feel it. It's all muscle memory. You can probably feel when you ride out of the bevel a little and you can hear when you're not in there well enough.

[Otto Nobedder]

If you keep the rod buried real deep then you can't hardly see the arc. Just the reflection from inside the pipe. Only applies to the root pass.

And a lot of guys who do it every single day or often and get damn near the same fit up just place it in there and just feel it. It's all muscle memory. You can probably feel when you ride out of the bevel a little and you can hear when you're not in there well enough.

This is absolutely true. You will hear a difference when you roll over a tack.

I am NOT suggesting welding without a hood, obviously, but you can easily impress the uninformed if they ask you a question while welding, because you can raise your hood to answer them without breaking the arc. This stuns the shit out of the uninitiated.

Steve

[RamboBaby]

I am NOT suggesting welding without a hood, obviously, but you can easily impress the uninformed if they ask you a question while welding, because you can raise your hood to answer them without breaking the arc. This stuns the shit out of the uninitiated.
Steve

I don't know if I'll ever be that good and I do want to learn how to pipe weld, though I don't think that doing it for a living is in the cards for me. I wilt if I have to work in the sun all day. I'm impressed just hearing that you can do this.....I don't even need to see it. My mind is already blown just by reading it.
Thanks guys!

[Farmwelding]

Yeah it is really funny watching them lift their hood up and do little weird dances and other weird stuff like humping the pipe(no Jeff this is not a free for all for you to make jokes about it it is just what they happen to do and no jokes about me watching them do it either) I guess if all you do is weld say 12" pipe you get pretty used to it and it probably gets boring so you find ways to entertain yourself.

[RamboBaby]

Alright guys, life just threw me a curve ball. I bought the metal for my practice coupons but......a friend of mine showed his boss a few pictures of my tig welds and his boss told him to get me in there because he wants me to start work tomorrow morning. He said it would pay between $16 & $18/hr to start, welding mostly 11 gauge stainless. I don't even know what in the hell they make there but I'm assuming that it's most likely kitchen equipment. I've only ever had any practice on 16 gauge stainless and only, exactly, ONE of those welds turned out well. Pray for me guys because I'm gonna need all of the help that I can get! I'm taking my tig welder with me because Rick_H proved to me that this thing is a master of autogenous stainless welding in pulse mode.
I've been trying to get this kind of job for nearly four years and this one just fell into my lap.
HELP!!!!!!

[Poland308]

Breathe in. Breathe out. Be honest and tell the guy what you just said here. He probably just wants someone who won't stick the tungsten every 1/2 inch. What you already know will all transfer over. After a few days ss will be just like everything else you can already weld.

[RamboBaby]

Thank you brother.

[MinnesotaDave]

Alright guys, life just threw me a curve ball. I bought the metal for my practice coupons but......a friend of mine showed his boss a few pictures of my tig welds and his boss told him to get me in there because he wants me to start work tomorrow morning. He said it would pay between $16 & $18/hr to start, welding mostly 11 gauge stainless. I don't even know what in the hell they make there but I'm assuming that it's most likely kitchen equipment. I've only ever had any practice on 16 gauge stainless and only, exactly, ONE of those welds turned out well. Pray for me guys because I'm gonna need all of the help that I can get! I'm taking my tig welder with me because Rick_H proved to me that this thing is a master of autogenous stainless welding in pulse mode.
I've been trying to get this kind of job for nearly four years and this one just fell into my lap.
HELP!!!!!!

Congrats man - keep practicing and go get 'em

I had some thin stainless dropped off at my place a while back.
Had to be food grade when done, $500 worth of material, I spent 8 hours practicing for 5-6hrs of work....

But it's my part-time side work, so it worked out

As far as help goes, need pics - but I can tell you that using the right amount of amps so you can start moving right away is important.

Dawdling around and you'll just cook it. Colors will go dark.

[exnailpounder]

Good luck and let us know what happens.

[RamboBaby]

I got started @$12/hr and was told that if all goes well then I'll get boosted to $15/hr after one month. I think my welds look terrible but these guys are extremely pleased. When the owner saw how much I had done and how it looked, he boosted me up to $14/hr. I think my welds look like total shit but these guys think they're great. I'm not gonna argue. These are mostly veryical welds and it only took me a couple of tries to figure out that down hill is the way to go.

[Poland308]

If that's how they feel then it sounds like a great place for you to get some experience on ss.

[Farmwelding]

BSX gloves?!?!?!? There is a traitor amongst us! Nah I'm just playing. I have a BSX jacket from before the whole tig finger thing but it's getting replaced because I hate it.

As for the job-more money for getting better is always a good thing. What is that part in the picture for?