[Tombstone]

To add, regardless of what the OCV is for a machine, a 6013 is still a 6013. The properties, characteristics, alloy and mineral content are all basically the same from manufacturer to manufacturer. The "6013" is an AWS "classification standard that has been adopted and accepted world wide.

Look at it this way..... If the charpy v-notch, tensile strength, yield strength and elongation percentage classification standards were all "that different" between U.S. or European made 6013's, then the differing 6013 in question would NOT BE CLASSIFIED NOR LABLED AS A "6013." It's like saying our 2% low fat milk is different than your 2% low fat milk, in that the "2%" classification is somehow different between the two. 2% is 2%. Sure, one may be "chocolate milk" while the other "buttermilk," but they are still both classified as "2% low fat milk."

6013 is 6013 when it comes to strength or weakness AWS classifications of the electrode and weld bead, regardless of electrode manufacturer. Although I suspect electrodes coming from China exclusively, may be lacking in chemical composition and manufacturing quality control issues and are erroneously shipped out to retail markets with whatever AWS classification number they feel like printing on the rod (ie 6011, 6013, 7014, etc...) (but that's for another topic for another thread).

Again, 7018 (either DC or AC) is the "major league" electrode for anything fabricated for "critical structures" (again, "boat trailers") whereas, 6013 is the "little league" for lawn art stuff and patio tables.

[Otto Nobedder]

Interesting....

Tensile strength is not the only property of a filler metal. It's a trade-off with ductility.

I must have build 75-100 floating boat-docks for one of the largest impoundments in the U.S., many installed on the main channel, where cigar-boats send out 4-foot+ wakes. Every bit welded with 6013 on a Lincoln tombstone. Never had a failure.

I've also built two tailers using 6013, and as I'm qualified to design suspensions for over-the-road HAZMAT trailers weighing 46K pounds empty, I think I can speak with some confidence when I say 6013 is not the bastard step-child rod you present it to be.

Steve S

[Bill Beauregard]

I'm the sort of stick welder who does OK vertical until a real welder watches me do it, then I get stage fright. I've never executed a vertical 6013 weld I was proud of. 7018 is another story. With the right size electrode, and a dialed in welder, I can make some very presentable vertical welds. 7018 is troublesome to store. Rod ovens are expensive, and use up a lot of electricity. I think of fire hazard with an unattended rod oven. I believe for a project, open a fresh, new, sealed box of 7018, use it up that day, or put it in mom's oven overnight. The avoidance of hydrogen inclusions, and the superior ductility of low hydrogen, give 7018 the advantage.
Certainly Steve S knows what he's talking about. I don't disagree, but I can only make a good 6013 weld horizontal. I have in past years gone to extreme measures to turn over some pretty huge weldments to avoid welding 6013 vertical.

Still I would not stick weld a boat trailer. I have a very good MIG machine, with it, I'm superman. I'd use ER 70 for ductility. It'll give you a strong and pretty weld.

[Superiorwelding]

While I do not prefer 6013 as my choice rod and in my opinion 7018 would be my choice in this case you cannot show me any specs that would not allow this to be welded with 6013. With that said and as I mentioned before 6013 will be and is a acceptable electrode for welding this trailer. Not knowing the exact design and materials I will assume A36 of some sort. Using Lincoln Electric Fleetweld 37, the 6013 will produce a strength yield strength of 57-64,000 ksi and a tensile strength of 67-75,000 ksi with elongation of 20-31%. This rod far exceeds the requirements of AWS A5.1 E6013. You have exceeded the strength of the steel by almost 50%. Even without the best weldor in the world you will have say 20'-0" (just to throw a number out there) of acceptable weld that will hold the weight of the boat by (guessing without doing the math) 200-300%. I can run the numbers tomorrow if you would like.
Point of all this rambling is, even if we don't like it this rod will in fact do a good job. I think we may have deviated form the original question, although I think it has been interesting.
-Jonathan

[weldin mike 27]

Lets get down to brass tacks here, Gentleman. Has anyone seen a weldment fail BECAUSE it was welded with GPs rather then a higher tensile rod, not withstanding a completely innapropriate use, like a bulldozer blade??

Mick.

[Bill Beauregard]

Every weld electrode on the market is strong enough with good welds to serve this purpose. Were I doing it, my best chance of producing 100% good welds is with 7018. My local Airgas gets ma a rod called 80TAC+ I find it easy to run, and strong. It gives me good welds every time.

[Bill Beauregard]

My 8 ton loader takes a severe beating, I live in a land of huge boulders. The cutting edge wears blunt in a couple of years. I snap a chalk line, cut it straight with torch, and graft on a piece of High manganese grouser stock. I use the 80T AC+ to weld it in place. As it cools the 8' long piece of grouser stock breaks in three places relieving stress. I burn a gap and weld it up. despite severe duty, the grouser stock always wears out with no weld failures. A friend of mine was first to use it. He routinely rebuilds large excavator buckets, and bulldozer blades with a Lincoln AC Buzz Box. He swears by it.

[Superiorwelding]

You know what's funny about this thread? We have 30+ posts and nothing more from the OP. Oh well, at least we here are keeping in touch
-Jonathan

[Braehill]

I don't usually chime in on threads about stick welding but I'm noticing a pattern here. I've read many threads where somebody asks what rod is your favorite rod, and each person list why this or that is their favorite. If all rods are made to an exact standard then how can one be better than another? Do all welding rods throughout the world have to adhere to the "American Welding Society's standard? I guess, ah not. What are they going to do to a company in England or Ireland? Tell them they can't make rods how ever they want. What are they going to do to a company in any state in the United States for that matter, they have no control over how every rod is made in every factory.

We would like to think that everything out there being made is held to some kind of standard but the truth is it's not, neither in this country or others around the world. When was the last time a AWS inspector pulled into your driveway and checked the welds out on your travel trailer or the utility trailer you built to hall firewood to camp, never.

When a guy in Ireland asks advise on a rod to use for making a boat trailer maybe we can suggest that he consult a reputable welding rod company's data from his home country and keep the local stuff out of the conversation. It's apparent that rods are different in different parts of the world. If he asks for advise on how to run a certain rod then we may be able to offer some input that is valuable.

In the infamous words of Forest Gump, "And that's all I got to say about that".

Len

[AKweldshop]

OK,

My point is 6013 is inferior, it penatrates less, has little good to say about it....

Its garbage..... Weld is ugly, sure the slag curls up in one piece, but the weld is so poor, inconstant and doesn't wet in good.

You try and weld vertical with it, or overhead, it cant weld worth %$#@!!!

You guys go buy some, Johnathan, Steve, Mick, Bill, Len, and myself.

1/8 6013, any brand, just weld a t-joint in 1/4 steel....

Than weld vertical....

Than overhead....

And for gosh's sake smack them with a hammer, and get a pic!

CEP on WW, did a sledge hammer test, testing the different rods.

6013 took 3 hits with a 4lbs hammer.

7018 took 23 hits.

CEP's words
7018 has a HUGE advantage over 60s series welding rod in the dynamic loading category. Even over 7014. Few years ago I did some fillet weld break tests. Here are the results.

6013 = 3-blows
6011 = 8-blows
7014 = 10-blows
6010 5P-Plus = 10-blows
7018 (cold) = 18-blows
7018 (hot) = 23- blows

[weldin mike 27]

First off, i believe this subjuct has been bastardised to with in an inch of its life.

Secondly lets remember the actual question here. Will this rod do the job? Yes. Is there better alternatives? Ofcourse.

As for that test...i can tell straight away what the 6013 weld that old mate tested looked like...concave with very little throat thickness. Thats the nature of the rod and measures need to be taken to remidy this.(2passes to build up the throat) The strength of a weld comes from its throat. unless he made every weld the same throat, (see a reduced section tensile test) the results would have been biased. The rod is fine. deal with it. for petes sake.

Mick

[Superiorwelding]

First, I agree we are off topic but I rebuttal respectively.
I will/ would purchase some 1/8" 6013 and preform tests but to achieve correct results we would need consistent testing procedures. The hammer test described puts the weld in a moment and the hammer swings would very greatly. Really life welds almost never see the abuse received with a hammer. This test, while good, does not represent a shear load capacity, which I believe MOST of the welds will be in.
In my opinion and as mentioned, if you present a test with equal legs and throat, the 6013 will hold until its yield is exceeded. Will it last as long as a 7018, maybe not but it will do quite well.
Off topic yes, interesting yes.
-Jonathan

[plantwelder]

A few years back I welded the floor back into a Cat 637 scraper bowl. 5 & 6mm 6013's. Stayed there until the machine got sold on. I never took pictures, never did in those days, unfortunately. I think 6013 must be a broad brush classification as there is so much variation in quality. Obviously if the same standard meant the same welding qualities, no-one would have a preference of electrode. After all you boys over the pond rave about Lincoln 7018's so they can't be the same as Harbor Freight, yet some of you won't accept that some 6013's are better than others. I've used most of them in the last nearly 40-yrs, and there are some I happily repair excavator and loader buckets with, and some I wouldn't weld a garden chair with. As for penetration with 6013's, I never have trouble reaching the root. How much deeper do I need to go?

[AKweldshop]

Ok,

My reason for ranting like this is that I've tried a handful of different 6013, and have not been impressed.

I'll Get some pics of my 6013 beads, compared to 7018....

Put my money where my mouth is....

I'm sick of this fiddling.

~John

[MinnesotaDave]

Heck, I pretty much like all the different rods for different reasons.

For sake of argument here is a 6013 three pass weld I did on AC for a set of light tractor bucket forks.
Ran outta mig wire and the 6013's my kid was using was all I had left - too impatient to drive to town and burn an hour

Not perfect, but pretty normal weld for me.

image.jpg (84.95 KiB) Viewed 4614 times

Here's the thread: http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?28 ... highlight=

[plantwelder]

Nice job. What make of rod and current? Of course, you know it'll never hold.

[Superiorwelding]

I will not be able to get out and weld for a while, but here is what I bought for this "test". I did not want to invest in a 50lb box of Lincoln and this will represent what most will have in the garage anyway. Now to find some material....
-Jonathan

[weldin mike 27]

I was just gunna say looks like its gunna shatter, and possibly de stabilise the indo-china alliance . Not to metion the time-space continuum. Evil things they are. lolz
mick

[Superiorwelding]

I was just gunna say looks like its gunna shatter, and possibly de stabilise the indo-china alliance . Not to metion the time-space continuum. Evil things they are. lolz
mick

[MinnesotaDave]

Nice job. What make of rod and current? Of course, you know it'll never hold.

Ha! Obviously the world will end since I used 6013 for those forks. I even load checked them with an SA-200

135 amps AC with my 1963 Airco 300. I liked them better on AC.

I no longer have that box so they could either be Lincoln, Forney, or Washington Alloy.

I have some Hobart stuff right now that welds just as nice but throws sparks like mad!
I noticed the Hobart flux coating is much thinner than the other stuff was - that flux was almost as thickly coated as 7014 rods.

My 7018 Lincoln rods don't spatter hardly at all as a comparison.

[Bill Beauregard]

In my "All i got is AC" days, I used a lot of 6013. Both then and now I believe a good weld is stronger than a bad weld with strong filler. In those days I avoided vertical welds. It's hard to beat a horizontal weld with 6013. If it has anything near 60,000 PSI tensile strength, that will cover most needs. After getting my first DC machine, I gradually switched to 7018, and vertical up didn't seem so hard. As Howard, the welder who builds all equipment at the pellet mill describes it; You have to make a hole to anchor the filler, then cross the puddle to do the same on the other side. A low penetration rod can't burn the needed hole.

[MinnesotaDave]

In my "All i got is AC" days, I used a lot of 6013. Both then and now I believe a good weld is stronger than a bad weld with strong filler. In those days I avoided vertical welds. It's hard to beat a horizontal weld with 6013. If it has anything near 60,000 PSI tensile strength, that will cover most needs. After getting my first DC machine, I gradually switched to 7018, and vertical up didn't seem so hard. As Howard, the welder who builds all equipment at the pellet mill describes it; You have to make a hole to anchor the filler, then cross the puddle to do the same on the other side. A low penetration rod can't burn the needed hole.

Nah, 6013 vertical is easy too - heck just look at my tractor fork weld again, now I did it vertical

image.jpg (81.98 KiB) Viewed 1544 times

[weldin mike 27]

Well you turned that on its head....

[MinnesotaDave]

Well you turned that on its head....

Yeah and now it looks worse - from now on I'll just take pics of the backside and say that "from the heat tint you can see how good the penetration is"

I've actually read that from people enough times that I remember it....

[weldin mike 27]

Just do as many others do and say, I know how to weld.... Or Its welded mate,

They are the most dangerous words in the welders vocabulary.