[Bill Beauregard]

In my "All i got is AC" days, I used a lot of 6013. Both then and now I believe a good weld is stronger than a bad weld with strong filler. In those days I avoided vertical welds. It's hard to beat a horizontal weld with 6013. If it has anything near 60,000 PSI tensile strength, that will cover most needs. After getting my first DC machine, I gradually switched to 7018, and vertical up didn't seem so hard. As Howard, the welder who builds all equipment at the pellet mill describes it; You have to make a hole to anchor the filler, then cross the puddle to do the same on the other side. A low penetration rod can't burn the needed hole.

Nah, 6013 vertical is easy too - heck just look at my tractor fork weld again, now I did it vertical

image.jpg

Wow, I can barely see a weave at all! You are good!

[MinnesotaDave]

In my "All i got is AC" days, I used a lot of 6013. Both then and now I believe a good weld is stronger than a bad weld with strong filler. In those days I avoided vertical welds. It's hard to beat a horizontal weld with 6013. If it has anything near 60,000 PSI tensile strength, that will cover most needs. After getting my first DC machine, I gradually switched to 7018, and vertical up didn't seem so hard. As Howard, the welder who builds all equipment at the pellet mill describes it; You have to make a hole to anchor the filler, then cross the puddle to do the same on the other side. A low penetration rod can't burn the needed hole.

Nah, 6013 vertical is easy too - heck just look at my tractor fork weld again, now I did it vertical

image.jpg

Wow, I can barely see a weave at all! You are good!

Almost looks like I dragged it up there - new technique for us young 43 year old guys

[Superiorwelding]

Ok take this test for what it is worth. Material is 1/4" x 1-1/2" HRFL. I cut the middle section out because I put a tack on the back so the bar wouldn't pull in so much and to eliminate a start/stop. Machine Syncrowave 200, 120 amps and 20% dig both rods. I will say this is not my best welds and almost didn't put these up. I did the 6013 first and the plate was way to hot for the second 7018 pass, but it still worked. I also did not penetrate the root very well.
My conclusion; Both held up well and took around 50 blows with a 2lb hammer to break each. Obviously when the 6013 started to yield it only went so far and just snapped while the 7018 bent to almost 45 degrees before breaking.
If my math is correct this weld should support roughly 27,000lbs. Again this really is not a real world test. To find a true tensile strength we would need even and gradual pressure. Shock loading it makes it impossible to find its true strength. Like I mentioned before, the trailer in question and most welds in general, never see shock loading like we are doing with a hammer. Also not all the welds will be put in a moment. I would like to see a nick-break test done between these two rods. This will be a more accurate test we can do at home for impact toughness.
-Jonathan

[Superiorwelding]

And here are the breaks. First picture the 6013 is on the right and second picture it is on the left.
I started out in a vise and broke the jaws, so I welded them to the table. The 7018 I welded down with 8010 and the welds sheared. This is why the 7018 moved to the left.
John, you owe me $5 for the rod, $20 for new vise jaws and $100 for aggravation.
-Jonathan

[AKweldshop]

HEY NOW,

I wont pay for your mistakes....

I'll try and do one of these tests tomorrow....

~John

[Superiorwelding]

HEY NOW,

I wont pay for your mistakes....

I'll try and do one of these tests tomorrow....

~John

John,
No, but I thought you would get a kick out of that.
-Jonathan

[AKweldshop]

Hey,

Now you can turn that mistake into experience.

I'll try it tomorrow, if I get the time.

~John

[Braehill]

John,
Even if I did have the time and the inclination to go buy 6013 rod and run this hammer test, why would I? I can just look at the number and see that it is of less tensile strength than a 7018 rod. Somebody has already done that for me. Besides my comments were not to brag up the merits of 6013 nor to put them down. I haven't welded anything with 6013 since around 1979 and what I did weld is still doing exactly what I asked of it. I don't think it's a better rod than a 7018 and I also think it must be being used by quite a few people because Lincoln and many other companies are still making tons of it.

In the 70's we hauled 3-4 trucklloads a month of coiled wire to Lincoln in Clevland to make it and I have a friend who still does. So if my math is right, there's at least 200,000 lbs a month being made so there must be a lot of broken mower decks and trash can lids in disrepair out there.

I suck at welding with 6010 rod but that doesn't mean that they should stop welding miles of pipeline with it. Every rod has it's place, even Aluminum stick rod in the hands of an artist can produce a satisfactory weld. I've seen some hoppers that my neighbor built for the original Alcoa plant that you would have a hard time telling that they were not Tig welded made with stick.

Now you guys got me worrying about myself for responding to this rediculous thread for the second time when I know better.

Len

[Superiorwelding]

Len,
We should have stopped responding a long time ago. Some out there are getting a laugh and others are shaking their heads.
-Jonathan

[AKweldshop]

OK,

Lets use these weld pic in Johnathan thread he's gonna start.

Remember the different welds with different process's thread???

We are in no ways wasting time here.

The OP asked what he should weld with, he has a 150amp DC stick welder, and wanted to know what rod he should use to weld 5/32 steel for his boat trailer.

Anyway....

No harm done.

Like I say, If it works, use it!

~John

[wheresmejumper]

It doesnt seem there are too many choices for 6013 in the US, but they come with lots of different flavours.
Everybody knows 7018 are basic,6010 cellulosic,6013 rutile etc
Lots of 6013's are out there that are mixtures of rutile-basic, or rutile-cellulosic
each one has properties of both rutile, as well as the other ingredient in a smaller amount
so a paricular rutile-cellulosic rod might have rutile properties like easy slag removal, smooth bead appearance, but have a bit extra penetration or work better downhill.
Or a rutile-basic rod might have the easy restrike properties of rutile composition, but higher metallurgical qualities than a 'plain old 6013'.
There are more combinations of the rutile cellulosic, and rutile basic electrodes out there than anyone knows.they can all be branded as 6013 on the box though.you just have to read the small print.
Theres a hell of a lot of POS rutile rods out there I do know.all the crap downsides of 6013 combined in one terrible slagfest.
Just dont be hatin them all

[AKweldshop]

I'm not hating them all.

If I could find some good 6013, like I see the's pics of or hear about, I might be converted....

I haven't found any yet....

~John

[wheresmejumper]

I'm not hating them all.

If I could find some good 6013, like I see the's pics of or hear about, I might be converted....

I haven't found any yet....

~John

Ill post you a few

[MinnesotaDave]

I'm not hating them all.

If I could find some good 6013, like I see the's pics of or hear about, I might be converted....

I haven't found any yet....

~John

I like 6013 fine, about like I like anything else (except I like 7014 a little more than the others).

Having said that, I see no reason a person would convert (or revert) back to 6013 if 7018 is working for them.

It's just not that important in the overall scope of welding

But, if 7018 is on autopilot to the point of excluding the ability to run other rods....then maybe trying out some others would be a beneficial exercise.

Edit: Hmmmm, just re-read that, looks like I called you out, guess I sorta did?

[noddybrian]

If the shipping was'nt so insane we should start a rod exchange program ! we could send you some decent Bohler / Eutectic / Oelikon / Filarc / Murex / Soudometal / Esab ........... could go on for pages ! - & in return you could send us the mythical 6010 or Excaliber that most in the UK have & never will see ! I did find one place that could supply 6010 - but the price ruled it out & the only Lincoln low hydrogen I've ever managed to get was called Hyrod & has to be my least favorite rod of all time !not knocking Lincoln - but over here I doubt half the stuff in their boxes is genuine .

[plantwelder]

If the shipping was'nt so insane we should start a rod exchange program ! we could send you some decent Bohler / Eutectic / Oelikon / Filarc / Murex / Soudometal / Esab ........... could go on for pages ! - & in return you could send us the mythical 6010 or Excaliber that most in the UK have & never will see ! I did find one place that could supply 6010 - but the price ruled it out & the only Lincoln low hydrogen I've ever managed to get was called Hyrod & has to be my least favorite rod of all time !not knocking Lincoln - but over here I doubt half the stuff in their boxes is genuine .

You forgot Halfords, Sealey and Phillips....I have about a dozen 6010's under my bench, no idea what make. They were so dry the first time I lit one up the end couple of inches of coating burst into flames. So I dropped one in my dunk tank, wiped it with a rag, and the next run looked like some of the pictures posted on here (almost). I now have 11 left, so I'm going to find me a pipeline and get rich.

[Superiorwelding]

I would go for a rod exchange. I think shipping will be more if not double the price of the rod. I get a excellent deal on rod, anyone there seriously game?
-Jonathan

[mcoe]

If the shipping was'nt so insane we should start a rod exchange program ! we could send you some decent Bohler / Eutectic / Oelikon / Filarc / Murex / Soudometal / Esab ........... could go on for pages ! - & in return you could send us the mythical 6010 or Excaliber that most in the UK have & never will see ! I did find one place that could supply 6010 - but the price ruled it out & the only Lincoln low hydrogen I've ever managed to get was called Hyrod & has to be my least favorite rod of all time !not knocking Lincoln - but over here I doubt half the stuff in their boxes is genuine .

You forgot Halfords, Sealey and Phillips....I have about a dozen 6010's under my bench, no idea what make. They were so dry the first time I lit one up the end couple of inches of coating burst into flames. So I dropped one in my dunk tank, wiped it with a rag, and the next run looked like some of the pictures posted on here (almost). I now have 11 left, so I'm going to find me a pipeline and get rich.

My brother in law keeps me in stock with 6010 and 7010 from the pipelines. I have a 50 pound can I have been burning on for a while.

[AKweldshop]

I'd love to get 10lbs of Bolher 6013, 1/8 and 5/32.

~John

[Antorcha]

I'm not hating them all.

If I could find some good 6013, like I see the's pics of or hear about, I might be converted....

I haven't found any yet....

~John

Look to find a Hilco supplier.You will NOT be disappointed. They make 5 types of 6013. Fantastic stuff.
http://www.hilco-welding.com/products/product-search

[kermdawg]

I bought a 50 pound can of unmarked 1/8" 7018 for 50 bucks off my brother..unopened. Opened it up, yep, Lincoln Excalibur...sealed it back up!

Seriously, I would also like to see a rod exchange set up. Mainly because I would really like to try some 7010 or 8010 or 8018. Ya know, that "exotic" stuff that you have to order from a real supply house, not home depot.

[Superiorwelding]

I bought a 50 pound can of unmarked 1/8" 7018 for 50 bucks off my brother..unopened. Opened it up, yep, Lincoln Excalibur...sealed it back up!

Seriously, I would also like to see a rod exchange set up. Mainly because I would really like to try some 7010 or 8010 or 8018. Ya know, that "exotic" stuff that you have to order from a real supply house, not home depot.

I have started one in the Stick welding section. This way others that are interested can view and have more opportunity to exchange.
-Jonathan

[kermdawg]

I cant find it Link?

[Superiorwelding]

I cant find it Link?

Sorry was not up yet
http://forum.weldingtipsandtricks.com/v ... f=4&t=5063

[Bill Beauregard]

The project at the mill is ongoing. I had one piece of strut to fasten. I have concluded that a fouled up MIG is easier to use vertical and overhead than a perfect stick machine.