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Curved Gap/Valley - what's the secret!?

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:06 pm
by getherdone
Thanks in Great Part to the videos put out by Jody and ChuckE, allot of studying/practicing/watching again and a little Lincoln Power MIG 210MP- I've been able to jump head first into some critical projects for my little business that we simply could not afford to send out given the volume.

This said - while really a simple project to put together now that I've built a jig and bought a bunch of clamps - there's one part that keep causing me trouble - and I could really use some input from the experienced guys out there to see how I can improve.

1) There's a gap in these parts created by the curvature of 2x6 1/4 wall tubing edges - where 1/2" plate presses up against. Before the jig I was doing this the long hard way going vertical up z-weave....the fillet seemed to fill the gap.

Now I'm welding with the past flat on ground, and finding that when I fill the gap (1/8 7018 125-1230 amps), the slag is epic to chip out on the first pass...no wormholes noticeable on surface however....but I wonder what's going on down below in the root One the first pass in that 'valley' - successive passes at 130 - the slag peels off mostly on its own with zero trouble. What's the trick to handle this kind of situation?

2) Once the assembled part is in position - there's one more valley where the 2x6 1/4" wall tube meets the top rails - which are 1/8" or often less (!!) rolled sheet metal - and i have to go vertical up here. I back the amperage off, but all too often burn through and later have to fill that. Not having much better luck trying to deal with it using flux core mig either. Best ASTHETIC results so far using 3/32 7018 circa 80-85 amps as I can jam it in there a little better on the weave. Second pass back to 1/8 and a little more heat, pausing longer on the 1/4" of course.

Be most grateful for some input from guys with real world field experience on this one - while classes and certs would be great, I've got no choice but to jump in and get this kind of thing done - and done well - clearly strength important for this upgrade.

PS- Jody, if you're reading this one by chance - thanks for all the tig videos - they're great. Devouring late at night in preparation for arrival of first ac/dc Everlast unit - be most helpful in my line of work. Appreciate what you do.
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Re: Curved Gap/Valley - what's the secret!?

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:23 pm
by sedanman
I would run a first pass with 6010 or 6011 then cap it with 7018.

Re: Curved Gap/Valley - what's the secret!?

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:23 pm
by getherdone
I've also just started experimenting with 7014 in flat position....like the way this stuff runs and serious weld deposit. Any merit to using that on the flat position valley - and 6011 (my inverter does not like 6010) on the vertical?

I only have 3/32 6011 at the moment - but ordered 5lbs of Lincoln 1/8 6011 yesterday funnily enough....

Re: Curved Gap/Valley - what's the secret!?

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:42 pm
by Poland308
You will find that the 6010/6011 1/8 rod will run well at about the same amps that you are using to run the 3/32 7018. That's a common rod combo used on pipe work. The 6011 will be a good choice to use in the deep vee grove. I would recommend running the first pass with the 6011 and keep it a narrow bead with almost no weave. Then lay a second pass also 6011 directly on top of that keep it centered over the first pass but wider. I.e. A little weave. Then switch to the 7018. Use a combination of passes. Either use one pass with a weave to flush out the grove or a couple of stringers. Whatever your comfortable with. After that the 7018 cover pass can either be a wide weave or 2 or 3 stringers. It's tempting to weave the cover wide but I imagine if your doing it vertical up then the stringers will be easier to keep even looking.

Re: Curved Gap/Valley - what's the secret!?

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 12:54 pm
by getherdone
I'm still struggling with 7018 vertical stringers....seem to get poop droplets more so than an actual stringer :(

My weave does end up a bit wide by the time a cover pass is on there...in some cased I've covered with a 3/32 7018 when I was beginning...easier to control and better aesthetics.

By the way when I'm doing joints in flat with 1/4 -> 1/2...I'm doing on average 4 passes (sometimes more) given this valley. Any reason why not to burn a 5/32 7018 at say 165-175amps for at least some of the beads...and cut down to say 3 passes?

Also any reason NOT to use 7014 in there was well when flat?

Thanks again

Re: Curved Gap/Valley - what's the secret!?

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 6:23 pm
by Poland308
I can't speak to the 7014 I haven't used it much. 5/32 7018 will take a lot more amps than the 3/32 your used to. With some practice it's doable. But you will have to watch out for lack of penetration due to the steep angle of the tube to flat grove. That weld would be a good candidate for dual shield.

Re: Curved Gap/Valley - what's the secret!?

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:32 pm
by Coldman
7014 runs beautiful in horizontal runs. Vertical brings tears. 7018 is better for vertical, persevere.

Re: Curved Gap/Valley - what's the secret!?

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:43 pm
by getherdone
Dual shield ay? Funnily enough have some of the Lincoln stuff on the way in .035

The 75/25 bottle has been sitting in the corner looking lonely anyhow.

I've been curios about doing this project in dual shield for some time. In a manufacturing yard I can see on some of my other units it was definitely done that way on structural members....my concern is whether for the 3/8" plate to 1/4" tube joint if my little 210amp welder has the balls to do so.

The James Lincoln foundation procedures book regrettably does not list recommended settings for .035...only .045

Re: Curved Gap/Valley - what's the secret!?

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 2:19 am
by GreinTime
It's roughly a 20% difference in wire size. You could always just multiply the settings for 0.045 by 1.2 to get a rough baseline for feed rate. I'll look at a chart and make some inferences and get back to ya!

**After looking at everyone's charts, no one seems to list an inner shield wire at 0.035 other than ESAB. They recommend using 25-30V and 440-550 in/min (at least that's the range shown by their deposition rate chart for 75/25)

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Re: Curved Gap/Valley - what's the secret!?

Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 1:52 am
by getherdone
Think my PowerMig 210mp tops out around 25 volts or so :(

Not in manual, and I'm away for a while.