[genesis]

I'm thinking of getting the Everlast PowerARC 200 which is a DC only machine. What kinds of welding situations would call for AC?

dON <><

[kermdawg]

Stick? Almost none. The only time you need AC is for aluminum, because it cleans off the oxide coating, which melts at a higher temperature then the base metal. Has to do with ionization and what not. I believe they make 1/16" aluminum stick rods (could be wrong).

The DC stick welding arc is very differant from an AC stick welding arc. Its much smoother, and quiet for one. The AC arc tends to be, for lack of a better word, erratic and violent. Thats why there is a significant market for machines that only run DC as opposed to ac/dc. 90 percent of the time with stick welding, you'll be welding with dc current.

On a side note-you can convert a stick welding machine to a scratch start tig machine. This is where the ac/dc capability comes in to play. However, if you never plan on welding tig this isnt a concern.

[AKweldshop]

that machine is a great welder ,I've got the power arc 160 and it is a great little lunchbox. When it comes to stick welding DC is king for sure , 1 really easy arc starts , 2 smooth arc, 3 less arc "outages", 4 you will never , I mean never go back to AC stick . I hope you are buying that welder on Amazon they are the only place to buy Everlast welders and plasma cutters free, fast shipping and the cheapest place by far to buy Everlast welders and plasma cutters . Used to have a AC225 my first welder , $100 with leads off Craigslist and I've burned tons of LH 78 1/8 on this machine every rod was a fight , on vertical weave t- joints it would stick like mad ,overhead was even worse . When I finally got my 160 it was amazing ,I had just opened a fresh 50 lb box ,1/4 t-joint down flat , 133 amps , and a smooth drag and I could not believe my eyes. That slag curled up in one piece and I chipped the weld with the next rod , and I saved the full length slag pieces , the were my prize . What can I say , friends , DC with 7018 is simply amazing , good luck with all your welding , John

[jwmacawful]

Stick? Almost none. The only time you need AC is for aluminum, because it cleans off the oxide coating, which melts at a higher temperature then the base metal. Has to do with ionization and what not. I believe they make 1/16" aluminum stick rods (could be wrong).

The DC stick welding arc is very differant from an AC stick welding arc. Its much smoother, and quiet for one. The AC arc tends to be, for lack of a better word, erratic and violent. Thats why there is a significant market for machines that only run DC as opposed to ac/dc. 90 percent of the time with stick welding, you'll be welding with dc current.

On a side note-you can convert a stick welding machine to a scratch start tig machine. This is where the ac/dc capability comes in to play. However, if you never plan on welding tig this isnt a concern.

a.c. does come in handy welding very thick sections using 7024 jetwire.

[AKweldshop]

I've never tried running 7024 on AC ,they work really good on DC for me lays down a smooth weld with little spatter and the slag peels of in one big piece , but I'll try it , I was mainly saying that you don't wan't to run 7018 on AC ,but it can be done , what is the difference you've noticed with running 7024 on AC? thanks John

[jwmacawful]

I've never tried running 7024 on AC ,they work really good on DC for me lays down a smooth weld with little spatter and the slag peels of in one big piece , but I'll try it , I was mainly saying that you don't wan't to run 7018 on AC ,but it can be done , what is the difference you've noticed with running 7024 on AC? thanks John

you are right about 7018 on ac, it leaves a lot to be desired! as for ac 7024 it runs very smooth with a wider bead than on dc. i set the machine on 150 amps ac for a 1/8 rod for the first 6 or 8 passes on a single v groove weld on 4" plate before switching to a larger diameter rod.

[Otto Nobedder]

Last 7024 I ran was 1/4" rod on 3/8" plate 1G. 270A DCEN. Looked like sub-arc when I was done.

Steve S

[AKweldshop]

I believe you about the sub arc 7024 is my go too rod if I'm welding 1g or 1f welds, its really smooth and fast and saves me a bunch of time. The main thing is the really concave welds, which I really like. what puzzles me, Otto, is why your running a 1/4 jet rod @ 270a , cause I run a 5/32 jet rod @ 250a and they run amazing, what do you have to say for yourself, Otto, 270a is Pretty cold, just me,anyway John

[Nils]

I have burned stick with the PowerTig 250EX, PowerArc 160, and the PowerTig 185. The 160 does not like 6010, but loves 7018. The 185 burns 6010 like a dream. The 250EX was great with 7018, but I never tried 6010. The PA200 does have a special 6010 port, though I have no first hand experience with it, it does have good relatives. 6010 capability is a big deal. I owned a Miller XL Thunderbolt 225/150 ac/dc for a bit, and frankly it was a POS in comparison.

DC reverse polarity does the best job of burning the flux coating on the rod into a vapor shield. AC has a little going for it, unless you're into spatter and noisy burns.

[Otto Nobedder]

I believe you about the sub arc 7024 is my go too rod if I'm welding 1g or 1f welds, its really smooth and fast and saves me a bunch of time. TYhe main thing is the really concave welds, which I really like. what puzzles me, Otto, is why your running a 1/4 jet rod @ 270a , cause I run a 5/32 jet rod @ 250a and they run amazing, what do you have to say for yourself, Otto, 270a is Pretty cold, just me,anyway John

It's the "electrode negative" that makes 270A work on 1/4" 7024. The heat focus is in the base metal and the arc is tight. The rod burns a bit slower, but the penetration is fantastic and the finish mirror-like. These welds were 3/8 a36 plate butt welds, 1/4" gap, 37* bevel on both, 1/16" land, 7018 (1/8") root with I-beams as the "backing bars", so no risk of blow-through.

Steve S

[AKweldshop]

I didn't think about the dc- makes sense, I'll try running one on dc-, and see what happens , thanks Otto , John

[AKweldshop]

well, I tried running some 5/32 jet rod on dc- and ac, but on dc- the puddle control was totally different than dc+ . Before, I was running these rods dc+ @ 230-250 range because I was really working hard to keep that slag out of the puddle, that's a chore. I switched to 175 amps on dc-, and Otto was right the arc was really tight and the rod really burned slow, I made a 14 in bead and the weld had really good wash-in and deep penetration. But jwmac had a point with running these rods on ac, the puddle really spread out and whetted in good, thanks. All in all, I bought a 50lb box, and plan on using them on most everything in the flat position.
Thanks,
~John

[plantwelder]

I've found that with 2.5mm, polarity doesn't make much noticeable difference with 6013 and 7018's, but when you get up to 4.0 & 5.0 mm it makes a big difference. The 7018's I use (BOC) won't run straight polarity and the Zodian 6013's are like a gouging rod if you run them reverse.

[Tombstone]

One thing I didn't see anyone here mentioning is the fact that when welding in a corner and especially uphill, one will experience "arc blow" when using DC. It's where the arc is hard to control due to magnetism forcing the puddle to be pushed out and away from between the arc and base metal. So, the welder simply switches to AC and the arc blow magically goes away.

AC isn't all as bad as some claim. I'm sorry, but If one is a descent and somewhat experienced stick welder, AC can and does look purrrrty too. There will be some more spatter to clean up, but generally it's no big deal. I find those that claim AC to be so horrible, just don't know how to handle their spark in their own hands. I personally wouldn't be caught without owning at least one machine that does both AC and DC.

[weldin mike 27]

Hey,

Untill inverter technology, dc welders were rare in Aus, apart from engine drives. 240 volt ac machines were in every shed and garage that had a "tinkerer" living there, I learned how to weld on AC, and love being able to caress a rod in to life when people are fightinh and sticking and carrying on.

Mick

[jwmacawful]

One thing I didn't see anyone here mentioning is the fact that when welding in a corner and especially uphill, one will experience "arc blow" when using DC. It's where the arc is hard to control due to magnetism forcing the puddle to be pushed out and away from between the arc and base metal. So, the welder simply switches to AC and the arc blow magically goes away.

AC isn't all as bad as some claim. I'm sorry, but If one is a descent and somewhat experienced stick welder, AC can and does look purrrrty too. There will be some more spatter to clean up, but generally it's no big deal. I find those that claim AC to be so horrible, just don't know how to handle their spark in their own hands. I personally wouldn't be caught without owning at least one machine that does both AC and DC.

tomb; i hate to rock the boat on your ac love fest but i respectfully gotta disagree. ac for me only as a last ditch gotta weld this or i'ma gonna get fired. also (respectfully) welders that can handle the spark in their own hands have a trick or two to counteract arc blow lol

[AKweldshop]

I also have to disagree with Tombstone, AC stick welding with Lincoln Jet LH 78 h4r is just about as nasty as it gets. Now 7018 AC runs okay, I was just running some yesterday, but regular 7018 runs really rough on AC, lots of spatter, and I'm forced to go find my chipping hammer I'll be checking back later, John

[plantwelder]

There are a lot of electrodes that will run on AC and do a good job. When I started we had an oil cooled AC with 55 & 80 volt tappings, and we ran 7018's on 80 volts. AC isn't always a poor man's option. As said, there are tricks to avoid arc blow, once it happens, but with AC you don't get it in the first place.

[Tombstone]

I believe you about the sub arc 7024 is my go too rod if I'm welding 1g or 1f welds, its really smooth and fast and saves me a bunch of time. TYhe main thing is the really concave welds, which I really like. what puzzles me, Otto, is why your running a 1/4 jet rod @ 270a , cause I run a 5/32 jet rod @ 250a and they run amazing, what do you have to say for yourself, Otto, 270a is Pretty cold, just me,anyway John

It's the "electrode negative" that makes 270A work on 1/4" 7024. The heat focus is in the base metal and the arc is tight. The rod burns a bit slower, but the penetration is fantastic and the finish mirror-like. These welds were 3/8 a36 plate butt welds, 1/4" gap, 37* bevel on both, 1/16" land, 7018 (1/8") root with I-beams as the "backing bars", so no risk of blow-through.

Steve S

You say you're using 1/4" Jet with DCEN and a measly 270 A! I'm calling ya out on that my friend. I don't think you used 1/4". At 270a, it won't light off, but maybe make a few sparks like a Zippo lighter that's run out of lighter fluid. Jet rod alone is a "shallow" penetrating rod, coupled with the fact you're using DCEN and 1/4" electrodes? Lincoln recommends a minimum of a "freezing cold" 270 amps on the smaller 3/16" electrode, which is two sizes smaller than 1/4"! No way, no how are you melting metal with a 1/4" 7024. Or you're laying down massive amounts of cottage cheese.

Look at the amperage settings for 1/4" Jet rod as recommended by Lincoln. They recommend a bare bones MINIMUM of 320A at the bottom of the scale. Again, For the yet smaller 3/16" rod, 270A is the bare minimum!

I used to burn 1/4" Jet while working on missle motor platforms, out in the SF Valley. We used 400 amps to get those baby's hot. If we were good, we would dial down to around 375A. Jet. Rod does not light off at way cold amperage settings. I think you used 3/16's bro. Or, maybe you made a typo and meant to say 370 amps. Now that's believeble and on DC+ or AC.

[Tombstone]

One thing I didn't see anyone here mentioning is the fact that when welding in a corner and especially uphill, one will experience "arc blow" when using DC. It's where the arc is hard to control due to magnetism forcing the puddle to be pushed out and away from between the arc and base metal. So, the welder simply switches to AC and the arc blow magically goes away.

AC isn't all as bad as some claim. I'm sorry, but If one is a descent and somewhat experienced stick welder, AC can and does look purrrrty too. There will be some more spatter to clean up, but generally it's no big deal. I find those that claim AC to be so horrible, just don't know how to handle their spark in their own hands. I personally wouldn't be caught without owning at least one machine that does both AC and DC.

tomb; i hate to rock the boat on your ac love fest but i respectfully gotta disagree. ac for me only as a last ditch gotta weld this or i'ma gonna get fired. also (respectfully) welders that can handle the spark in their own hands have a trick or two to counteract arc blow lol

Jw..... I don't have a "love fest" for AC, nor do I feel like I want to have a baby with DC. I'm just saying AC has its place and it's NOT that bad as many people make it out to be. By the way, AC amps need to be set slightly higher than DC for welding the same sized electrode. Maybe that's your problem and you always weld on the same settings as DC.

I don't have a "violent" AC arc control as you've apparently experienced. I used to weld 7024 Jet on AC regularly back in the day. Sure it's not as pretty as DC, but again it's NOT that bad. I'll chalk up your dislike of AC to a lack of experience with it for any length of time. Also, an AC buzzbox produces a more undesirable looking AC weld, than say a Miller trailblazer AC/DC engine driven machine does.

[Otto Nobedder]

I believe you about the sub arc 7024 is my go too rod if I'm welding 1g or 1f welds, its really smooth and fast and saves me a bunch of time. TYhe main thing is the really concave welds, which I really like. what puzzles me, Otto, is why your running a 1/4 jet rod @ 270a , cause I run a 5/32 jet rod @ 250a and they run amazing, what do you have to say for yourself, Otto, 270a is Pretty cold, just me,anyway John

It's the "electrode negative" that makes 270A work on 1/4" 7024. The heat focus is in the base metal and the arc is tight. The rod burns a bit slower, but the penetration is fantastic and the finish mirror-like. These welds were 3/8 a36 plate butt welds, 1/4" gap, 37* bevel on both, 1/16" land, 7018 (1/8") root with I-beams as the "backing bars", so no risk of blow-through.

Steve S

You say you're using 1/4" Jet with DCEN and a measly 270 A! I'm calling ya out on that my friend. I don't think you used 1/4". At 270a, it won't light off, but maybe make a few sparks like a Zippo lighter that's run out of lighter fluid. Jet rod alone is a "shallow" penetrating rod, coupled with the fact you're using DCEN and 1/4" electrodes? Lincoln recommends a minimum of a "freezing cold" 270 amps on the smaller 3/16" electrode, which is two sizes smaller than 1/4"! No way, no how are you melting metal with a 1/4" 7024. Or you're laying down massive amounts of cottage cheese.

Look at the amperage settings for 1/4" Jet rod as recommended by Lincoln. They recommend a bare bones MINIMUM of 320A at the bottom of the scale. Again, For the yet smaller 3/16" rod, 270A is the bare minimum!

I used to burn 1/4" Jet while working on missle motor platforms, out in the SF Valley. We used 400 amps to get those baby's hot. If we were good, we would dial down to around 375A. Jet. Rod does not light off at way cold amperage settings. I think you used 3/16's bro. Or, maybe you made a typo and meant to say 370 amps. Now that's believeble and on DC+ or AC.

Call out all you like. It's been done. Reference AKweldshop's test of 5/32 at 175 DCEN.

Steve S

[AKweldshop]

I'll post a pic of my 5/32 "Lincoln" Jet-Rod at 175 amps DCEN. I run a 1/2 1g v-groove plate test with a 250 deg preheat and post it here soon

[Tombstone]

Call out all you like. It's been done. Reference AKweldshop's test of 5/32 at 175 DCEN.

Steve S

That's great fellas, but we are not talking about 5/32". You do realize that 1/4" is three sizes BIGGER than 5/32", right????

If I wanted to see 5/32" 7024 welded, I'd go out to my shop and burn some right now. Been there, done that. Lincoln's 5/32 Jet has a range starting at 160A and up to 215A. So your "175A" for 5/32" is well between the manufacturer's guaranteed welding range. What's AK's 5/32" "test" have to do with our original discussion about 1/4" running on 270A anyways? (Apples to oranges).

Back on topic. We were talking about 1/4" 7024 and "attempting" to run it a 270A on DCEN. Also, you said the penetration was "fantastic." Again, all on DC NEGATIVE......With 1/4-inch electrode......7024......Remember now?

1/4" 7024 amperage starts at 320A and goes up to 400A. I'd love to see anyone make a "welding test" with 7024 at 270A on DC NEGATIVE and get even the slightest bit of a "fair" penetrating weld. You will get nothing but bird poop and POOR penetration with the settings mentioned above. Unless, your welding steel that's as thick as a sheet of aluminum foil. I've welded plenty of 1/4" 7024 to know what I'm talking about and to say again, I'm calling you out on your original claim.

If you tried those settings where I worked at, you would have been fired and laughed at all the way off of the property.

Hey, maybe Jody can do a 1/4" DCEN 7024 test at 270A and see how it holds up. Now I wish I still had some of that rod on hand.

[Otto Nobedder]

First, we're talking about a 39% difference in cross-section area between 5/32 and 8/32, er 1/4...

Actually, I'm just going to leave it there for now.

This isn't the first thing you said "couldn't be done" that's been done.

Steve S

[Tombstone]

First, we're talking about a 39% difference in cross-section area between 5/32 and 8/32, er 1/4...

Actually, I'm just going to leave it there for now.

This isn't the first thing you said "couldn't be done" that's been done.

Steve S

I concur Steve. Stop here while you're still above the surface of the water.