Welding Tips and Tricks

I have never used 7018 rod but want to give them a try. I keep reading about the need for a rod oven to keep it dry, but since 5lb of rod would last me a year or more that would not be practical. I was thinking about making a rod storage contained out of PVC pipe and rubber end caps to keep the moisture out and storing them in the house. Would this be enough to keep the rods fresh for a year?

Mark

Yes. I use the commercially available plastic rod holders with a rubber sealed cap to keep rod dry while it's on my truck.

7014 is a very good alternative and no rod oven issues.

A screw cap rod container is only about $9 and all that is needed for most rods.
Your 7018 will still pick up moisture but it won't matter for home use on mild steel.
In my opinion.

Mark, I'm in Sennett, outside Auburn. If you're nearby you can swing by and get some 7018. I have 1/8" and maybe some 3/32" on hand.

If the 7018 has been exposed to air or dampness I notice more spatter and a somewhat rougher bead but I've never cut and etched a weld to check to see what the difference is in penetration. I have my 7018 rod (the remnants of a 50# can) in a big military surplus ammo can with desiccant bags. The bags get swapped out and dried in the oven every now and then. I also have a stainless steel 120 volt counter top convection oven in the shop like you sometimes see grocery stores making samples with. It gets to 550 degrees and I use it to dry the rods for anything other than a quick down and dirty weld.

If I was gong to weld anything truly structural I'd use fresh rod though.


Lance

Thanks for the reply's

I am a home welder and don't do serious structural work. I will pick up a plastic rod container and give them a try.

Lance, thanks for the offer but I am in Staten Island part of New York City.

Thanks again

Mark

Its per code you need to keep them in an oven, structural code I believe.

Since you are not doing structural code type work, you don't have to worry about it. That's where it comes from.

Any effort you make to keep them dry and such is not going to hurt them, it will only make it better. I have heard that when the can is opened its pretty much over and they start to absorb moisture. I guess the flux is rater hydroscopic so its bound to happen but by keeping them really hot in the oven, you make them low hydrogen again; which is what is required by code.

Home hobby use, don't even worry about it.

If you have a Harbor Freight near you, the orange plastic tubes are $4. They have a rubber seal, and even in the South Texas heat, they have yet to dry rot on me.

Yeah, I've got 7018 in those orange cans that have been in my garage for 5+ years and it welds just fine. I'm careful to keep the cans snugly closed, and when I need some sticks, I just very briefly open it and take out what I think I'll need.

I've got some 7014s on the go at the moment. They are very good. (This brand anyways.)

I was reading a post somewhere where a guy made his own holders out of plumbing pipe with a tubeless car valve on the bottom where he would put argon in the bottom via the valve and could open it to get out his rods as needed without the worry of any air or moisture being in there as is argon being heavier than air.
He would top up the argon every so often.

hello ,

great boxes you have there, I never seen of that sort,

I did exchange with a formula engineer from a well known electrode maker (selectarc, I am in France)

He told me that 7018 type accept to be cooked at 662 F for 30 hours , that mean about 15 cookings without degradation.

but also, if they took a little humidity but you do non critical weld , a gentle drying can be done as one hour at 212 F

adding small pouches of sillicate is a good solution (it keep air moisture at approx 16% humidity , it is really low) BUT ,

one need to buy sillicate bags with colored crystals , that shows you the crystals did take their maximum moisture (about half their weight) and need to be cooked (along with electrodes could be an option I think)
If not , you do not know when the bag is full of moisture and if the electrodes touch it they will get moisture , somewhat counterproductive indeed

another information I did obtain, is that all the 'all positions including descending' electrodes, contain a good percentage of cellulose in the coating (even some 6013 or 6012 )
they can be gently dried if necessary but the cellulose is degraded at about 600 F your electrodes will not burn with a good gaz shield then.

cellulose, mean a paste, or wood flour, or may be paper (I did read that on Lincoln web site)

when it burns it generate hydrogen so obviously you will have zero cellulose in the low hydrogen rods .

Best regards from France, I hope you did get some info

Here is a cooking drying table but all in French with celsius temp.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6GjQD ... sp=sharing

you can see that some electrodes get 3 times less heat than the low hydrogen or some stainless types,

and that a stronger cooking can be applied when welding stainless steel with 6013 or 'acid' electrodes (widely used here in mixed types as cellulosic and acid, or low hydrogen and acid)

so one need to be sure he is not using electrodes all positions then, as the proposed heat is about 480- 572F for one hour.

doubl

tested my idea , it works perfectlty


https://goo.gl/photos/aDyS6b4AeoyXy6GX9

unused bags 10,6g

moderate 11,4 g


stored in a bag that had some holes , 12,4 g


I will pursue the survey, when saturated the bag should weight approx 15 g

Bob Moffat, (weld.com) did a great demonstration. He took fresh 7018 (3/16") and 6010 (1/8" because he could run them at the same amperage. Side by side, he ran a bead on two identical 1/4" thick coupons. Still hot, he power wire brushed them, and dropped them both in mineral oil.

The 7018 sample did nothing. the 6010 sample looked like it was in champaign! The bubbles are hydrogen. Hydrogen migrates within hot weld until it either gasses off into the atmosphere, or hits solid steel. It forms a division between hot metal, and cooler. Cracking can sometimes begin there.

I did notice there are plastic cans intended to store the electrodes immediately when they go out of the oven.

Not all containers can accept the huge temperature. Plus they are 45 cm tall and you can store 7 Kg of electrodes sealed in those. (May be TIG electrodes too) They are not very expensive ( I have seen others that where proposed 70€ each )
http://www.france-soudage.fr/soudure/Et ... rodes.html

Here are the good ones : Coming from a French welder maker, GYS . Certainly some of similar kind are available in USA
http://www.comptoirdespros.com/equipeme ... AnZF8P8HAQ

BTW if you use sillicagel, they can be dried again and again but NOT with the electrodes as high temperature degrades them ( I don't know how much but pouches opened and the halls get tacky after I did a fast dry cycle for 7018 at about 392 deg.Fahrenheit ( 200 C )

To recycle the bags , 3 hours in an oven at 65 deg Celsius, (147 F) a very low temperature. Microwave can be used toon but I don't know how exactly. I recall it can be somewhat violent and it takes some time anyway.

Those protective boxes should be necessary, as , when warm, the electrodes will attract air moisture fast.
The max temp allowed is not the one immediately after cooking but around 110 120 degree Celsius. (230 F)

Regards

Olivero wrote:Its per code you need to keep them in an oven, structural code I believe.

Since you are not doing structural code type work, you don't have to worry about it. That's where it comes from.

Any effort you make to keep them dry and such is not going to hurt them, it will only make it better. I have heard that when the can is opened its pretty much over and they start to absorb moisture. I guess the flux is rater hydroscopic so its bound to happen but by keeping them really hot in the oven, you make them low hydrogen again; which is what is required by code.

Home hobby use, don't even worry about it.

Yes its coating is much hygroscopic, so keeping them in a very dry place is better, it may allow a fast drying if you notice poorsities or too much projections, but remember the coatings evolve , see that article from Lincoln, you have 7018 with R prefix that are possibly using ptfe in the binder, (about 20-25%) which protect them from somehow from humidity, you may also find 7816 electrodes that are considered low hydrogen and do not necessitate cooking,

I agree that for non coded weld this is not very important but only as long as the electrodes are working fine

anyway I have an oven at the shop so I can dry electrodes and the silicate bags

https://www.google.fr/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... ghYt3Qlq2Q

something I just realized is that when cellulose is included in a rod, that one will be degraded soon when cooking at high temp - about 450F for paper to auto ignite (and I did read that some paper was used for some Lincoln electrodes )


So with all "all positions including descending" electrodes, (that may contain some cellulose in their coating) only a gentle drying may be done if necessary

(I was given a 300 Celcius maximum, but this is more 450F- 250 Celcius )

What I meant is that I did do wrong when drying some nickel based electrodes that where good for descending .

The maker of those rods told me that this mean that there is a good percentage of cellulose in that graphite based coating

I heated them too much and the coating was impacted, then the arc is not as stable it should be