Welding Tips and Tricks

I got my Miller Thunderbolt and I have been practicing a bit and getting all the things necessary to do some actual welding projects. I bought some hobart sticks to practice with. I'm interested in what GOOD brand or type of sticks I should buy for serious projects.

My plan was to buy 1/8" 7018 and 1/8" 6011 and maybe 3/32" of each also for welding 1/8" metal. Would 3/32" rods help me to not burn through 1/8" metal? If so, that was my goal there. I know I have seen people say that they have the skill and knowledge to be able to weld 1/8" thick metal with 1/8" rods.

I currently have 1/8" 6013 and 1/8" 7014 hobart (they seem generic...no model name) and some 1/8" 7018 given to me with the welder (no idea of their age - condition looks to be fair to bad on some - good enough for practicing).

Any brand is fine for practice. I like Esab or Lincoln for my critical stuff. I’d recommend getting just 3/32 to start with for 7018. And 1/8 on the 6010 / 6011.

Forget about 1/8" electrodes for 1/8" parts! They can be made to work, but you will likely blow holes all over the place without any experience. Define "serious projects".

Not only would 3/32" rods not help you burn through 1/8" steel, some still run too hot for that! Lincoln is the best I've ran, followed by Esab. In a close 3rd place is Böhler/Kiswel rods, followed by (in no particular order): Blue Demon, Best Welds, Anchor. Lincoln's are more expensive (not by a lot), but they do allow you to run a stable puddle with about 10% lower amperage than the rest (that I have found in my own testing). That being said, the 'cheapies' still run pretty decent for non-critical work, there isn't that much of a spread between those rankings I gave. You could also look for some 5/64" electrodes that work decent at lower amperages.

+1 on the Lincoln, the only problem is you need to buy a 10# tube. Best 7018 rod by far. I concur with Oscar, with the 1/8" rods I was blowing holes through most stuff like crazy...3/32" works much better for me. The reason they only sell 10# tubes of this is that the tubes are sealed so that hydrogen doesn't penetrate into the tubes. In theory you're supposed to store these rods in an oven to keep them low hydrogen, but people like me don't. I'm not doing certified welds or have I seen any issues. Jody Collier did a test with some old 7018 that had been sitting outside for years, and the welds didn't look bad at all.

Some of the other rods you can get in the Lincoln 1# plastic tubes, like 6011, 6013 and 7014 I know that I have.

Good to get a variety of different rods to try, in various brands. I wish I could find Esab by me, but I'm sure you can get them online fairly easy. I hear good things about their 7018, Jody has also done some videos with them. See the WTAT YouTube channel.

Poland308 wrote:Any brand is fine for practice. I like Esab or Lincoln for my critical stuff. I’d recommend getting just 3/32 to start with for 7018. And 1/8 on the 6010 / 6011.

Thanks for the reply. I hadn't thought of ESAB.

Oscar wrote:Forget about 1/8" electrodes for 1/8" parts! They can be made to work, but you will likely blow holes all over the place without any experience. Define "serious projects".

Not only would 3/32" rods not help you burn through 1/8" steel, some still run too hot for that! Lincoln is the best I've ran, followed by Esab. In a close 3rd place is Böhler/Kiswel rods, followed by (in no particular order): Blue Demon, Best Welds, Anchor. Lincoln's are more expensive (not by a lot), but they do allow you to run a stable puddle with about 10% lower amperage than the rest (that I have found in my own testing). That being said, the 'cheapies' still run pretty decent for non-critical work, there isn't that much of a spread between those rankings I gave. You could also look for some 5/64" electrodes that work decent at lower amperages.

I was finding with my practicing on 1/8th using 1/8th rods if I didn't move quickly that it was easy to blow holes through. So you think 3/32" is still going to be too hot for 1/8" metal? I'll look for 5/64" if that is a better solution. I'm happy to pay more for the Lincoln if it will run better for me. I need all the help I can get to not make things worse when I'm trying to fix them.

Serious projects are ones where the welds will be visible or actually matter and not just be the stuff I am doing to practice on junk steel. I need to weld 1/8" angle to fix the battery tray holding up 360 lbs of batteries in a golf cart, I need to weld the step up metal on a trailer and some holes in the lighter metal in the metal siding of a trailer.

TraditionalToolworks wrote:+1 on the Lincoln, the only problem is you need to buy a 10# tube. Best 7018 rod by far. I concur with Oscar, with the 1/8" rods I was blowing holes through most stuff like crazy...3/32" works much better for me. The reason they only sell 10# tubes of this is that the tubes are sealed so that hydrogen doesn't penetrate into the tubes. In theory you're supposed to store these rods in an oven to keep them low hydrogen, but people like me don't. I'm not doing certified welds or have I seen any issues. Jody Collier did a test with some old 7018 that had been sitting outside for years, and the welds didn't look bad at all.

Some of the other rods you can get in the Lincoln 1# plastic tubes, like 6011, 6013 and 7014 I know that I have.

Good to get a variety of different rods to try, in various brands. I wish I could find Esab by me, but I'm sure you can get them online fairly easy. I hear good things about their 7018, Jody has also done some videos with them. See the WTAT YouTube channel.

I'm fine with buying 10 lbs if I have to, it doesn't matter to me plus you get a better deal. I'm not doing anything serious enough that I need a rod oven. Old 7018 would likely be fine for me as long as it ran well. Nothing I'm doing is so serious that it would matter.

jtap,

Could be wrong, but I believe the smallest 6011 electrode is 3/32".

Edit: Yup, I was wrong. 6011 is available in 1/16"..................though I've never seen any anywhere.

Chris C wrote:Edit: Yup, I was wrong. 6011 is available in 1/16"..................though I've never seen any anywhere.

6011
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/produ ... 16-in-1-lb

7014
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/produ ... 16-in-1-lb

7018
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/produ ... 16-in-1-lb

6013
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/produ ... 16-in-1-lb

That's where I found it............hence my correction. I'd just never seen it anywhere before.

Chris C wrote:That's where I found it............hence my correction. I'd just never seen it anywhere before.

Chris,

As tweake said recently, it's like welding "wire".

The stuff is pretty flimsy...but I have those just in case I need to do some stick on some really thin stuff...you just never know.

One reason good to have the 6011 is that it's more tolerant to dirty steel than something like 7018.

Yup, I'm aware of that. I'm new to this, but have been running a lot of rod practicing. I've got a lot of 6013 in 3/32" and 1/8", but am wanting to try some 6011 and 7014 in 3/32". Was just a little surprised to hear of the 1/6". Don't think I'd need that for now.

Chris C wrote:Yup, I'm aware of that. I'm new to this, but have been running a lot of rod practicing. I've got a lot of 6013 in 3/32" and 1/8", but am wanting to try some 6011 and 7014 in 3/32". Was just a little surprised to hear of the 1/6". Don't think I'd need that for now.

My $0.02 FWIW (I'm no professional), but go with the Lincoln rods in 3/32" for both 6011 and 7014, IMO.

I can't be too encouraging that depending on your welder, you might invest in a good stinger. Most of the Chinese welders come with crap consumables, and a good solid ground and a good stinger will go a long way to helping your stick welding, IMO.

I use one of these Lencos:
($24 w/shipping)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenco-01020DP- ... 2762588281

I also have one of these I use which is also good if you prefer this style.
(ONLY $6, $9 for shipping however)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Martin-Wells-W ... 3774960648

Both are made in the U.S.A.

Chris C wrote:Was just a little surprised to hear of the 1/6". Don't think I'd need that for now.

i'm assuming you meant 1/16".
frankly unless your doing thin panels you probably don't.
one of my practice bits was really some thin wall tubing, probably thinner than 1/16", and i was using 3/32" 6013.
6013 electrode negative, running downhill, you can do some really small welds.

My welder came with a Tweco a-732 Electrode Holder.

What would be the reason to buy/have some 3/32" 6013 and 7014? Are they more gentle and can be run at a lower amperage with less penetration and less chance of blow-through?

Yes, Tweake, I meant 1/16". I have no need for those at this point.

TraditionalToolWorks, I have an almost brand new 25 year old Lincoln Tombstone. I don't know much about stingers, but I assume the one on this welder is fine.

jtap wrote:My welder came with a Tweco a-732 Electrode Holder.

What would be the reason to buy/have some 3/32" 6013 and 7014? Are they more gentle and can be run at a lower amperage with less penetration and less chance of blow-through?

rutile electrodes will usually give a nicer looking bead. that can mean less clean up.
6013 these days tends to be a general purpose rod, use it for almost everything. its not fussy about storage requirements. cellulose rods can get to dry, basic rods need to be kept really dry.

rutile will generally run on anything, even some old buzz box. some 7018's don't run well on AC. some inverters will not run cellulose at all.
6013 can be run on electrode negative for low penetration on thin materials.

one catch is there is a wide range of 6013 available tuned for different things. single coat rutile, double coat rutile, cellulose rutile. theres even a pipeline 6013.

jtap wrote:I was finding with my practicing on 1/8th using 1/8th rods if I didn't move quickly that it was easy to blow holes through. So you think 3/32" is still going to be too hot for 1/8" metal? I'll look for 5/65" if that is a better solution. I'm happy to pay more for the Lincoln if it will run better for me. I need all the help I can get to not make things worse when I'm trying to fix them.

I mistyped. I meant to say "Not only will 3/32" help you to not blow through 1/8" ..". They [3/32"] are definitely better suited for 1/8" steel. Some can run too hot if you hold too long of an arc, it makes the puddle very messy and prone to blow-through. Different rods run differently, even if they are the same diameter and classification. In the end, you have to experiment with which ever rods you do get on practice pieces. As for the 5/64th's rods, it's not that they're a better solution, they're a different solution. For example, outside corner joints need less amperage than inside corner joints. Depending on how you actually terminate the edge and fit up the parts, a carelessly-set 3/32" rod with too much amperage can easily blow away that outside corner joint. It all comes down to being careful and practicing ahead of the project to make sure you know how to tackle it.

Oscar wrote: I mistyped. I meant to say "Not only will 3/32" help you to not blow through 1/8" ..". They [3/32"] are definitely better suited for 1/8" steel. Some can run too hot if you hold too long of an arc, it makes the puddle very messy and prone to blow-through. Different rods run differently, even if they are the same diameter and classification. In the end, you have to experiment with which ever rods you do get on practice pieces. As for the 5/64th's rods, it's not that they're a better solution, they're a different solution. For example, outside corner joints need less amperage than inside corner joints. Depending on how you actually terminate the edge and fit up the parts, a carelessly-set 3/32" rod with too much amperage can easily blow away that outside corner joint. It all comes down to being careful and practicing ahead of the project to make sure you know how to tackle it.

That's what I thought you meant, I didn't want to assume you meant differently than you typed...but all signs pointed to that. I will get some and practice with it.

tweake wrote: rutile electrodes will usually give a nicer looking bead. that can mean less clean up.
6013 these days tends to be a general purpose rod, use it for almost everything. its not fussy about storage requirements. cellulose rods can get to dry, basic rods need to be kept really dry.

rutile will generally run on anything, even some old buzz box. some 7018's don't run well on AC. some inverters will not run cellulose at all.
6013 can be run on electrode negative for low penetration on thin materials.

one catch is there is a wide range of 6013 available tuned for different things. single coat rutile, double coat rutile, cellulose rutile. theres even a pipeline 6013.

Thanks for the info. I'll get some of all of them.

Is there a drastic difference between running 6013 ep and en? Does the amperage needed change?

jtap wrote:
Is there a drastic difference between running 6013 ep and en? Does the amperage needed change?

yes there is quite a difference and amperage is different. but also that depends on how you use it to.

Stick rods are relatively cheap. Start with 10 lbs of rod. Take the time to just run that whole box as test welds. With something like 6013 while changing things like your amps and polarity. Once you start to feel comfortable with the limits of a given rod of one size then play around with joint configuration, angle thickness, different thicknesses. This will make you a much more confident, capable, and comfortable welder. The cost of the 10 lbs is an investment in you.

Couple questions about your thunderbolt. Is it one of the newer inverter style Tbolts that are dc only?
Or is it one of the older transformer style TBolts? Some were ac only and some were ac/dc.

Poland308 wrote:Stick rods are relatively cheap. Start with 10 lbs of rod. Take the time to just run that whole box as test welds. With something like 6013 while changing things like your amps and polarity. Once you start to feel comfortable with the limits of a given rod of one size then play around with joint configuration, angle thickness, different thicknesses. This will make you a much more confident, capable, and comfortable welder. The cost of the 10 lbs is an investment in you.

OP,

This is XLNT advice. I agree with it 100%.

snoeproe wrote:Couple questions about your thunderbolt. Is it one of the newer inverter style Tbolts that are dc only?
Or is it one of the older transformer style TBolts? Some were ac only and some were ac/dc.

Big old transformer guy from 2005. 80 lbs+ it will run ac or dc. I'm quite pleased with it. The only thing lacking now is my skill and ability. When I go to work on real stuff that I don't want to ruin I'm worried I will blow through stuff so I certainly need to run a few boxes of rods and learn them and be comfortable. One thing people don't really show much is how to fix a hole if you do blow through it. They are showing perfect technique usually. I wonder what good hole repair looks like? I may need to look harder for how to do that just in case.

TraditionalToolworks wrote:

Poland308 wrote:Stick rods are relatively cheap. Start with 10 lbs of rod. Take the time to just run that whole box as test welds. With something like 6013 while changing things like your amps and polarity. Once you start to feel comfortable with the limits of a given rod of one size then play around with joint configuration, angle thickness, different thicknesses. This will make you a much more confident, capable, and comfortable welder. The cost of the 10 lbs is an investment in you.

OP,

This is XLNT advice. I agree with it 100%.

I too agree and appreciate it. I have the rods to burn and will acquire more. Especially some of the 3/32" ones to practice with.

I have over 20 lbs of 1/8 stuff.

What I need is more scrap metal! It's more of a pain to get than rods.

Another question would be, since my welder is an old transformer welder, how much should i try to "adjust" the amps by moving the dial at a time to actually see/feel some difference?