[Boognevatz]

Hi,

I'm trying stick welding in vertical position from bottom to top (uphill). And I always get slag inclusion *in the middle*.
I can even see during weld how the molten slag flowing down in the middle.

I uploaded picture to show the problem:

slag inclusion in the middle

photo_2020-11-02_23-09-09.jpg (86.03 KiB) Viewed 5258 times

If I increase the current or I go to slow the molten slag drips down to the ground from time to time.

I'm welding with a 7014 rod (local european brand, er23), rod diameter is 2.5mm (3/32"), the two plates are 10mm (3/8") and 5mm (3/16") mild steel. The 5mm plate is welded to an another 5mm plate, so the two are about equal in thickness.
I tried almost every current settings from 60A to 120A.
I weld with DCEP. I clamp the workpiece to the negative side.

My welding machine is an inverter type, and can weld up to 143A.
It is a mixed TIG and stick type machine, pretty much noname brand, only tig160 is written on the side.
It resembles to this (except mine is red, and the knobs are at different positions):
https://kz.all.biz/en/device-of-argonno ... c-g1168376
(if it is considered a spammy link, please ignore, not important to the question).

The machine itself is pretty heavy about 20kg (45pounds).


My welding technique is symmetric to the 90 degrees corner (top view), and from the side view I try to hold my stick horizontally.

All my other welds are okayish (horizontal, overhead), I have real trouble with vertical welding.
I'm a hobby welder (weekend warrior:), but pretty heavy headed. I welded away 12 pack of welding tips 5kg each, so about 60kg (130pounds) in total. But this is the first time, I'm not able to rotate (place freely) the workpiece (it will be a metal skeleton of a garage door).

Any helps/pointers is much appreciated.

I pretty much watched all the youtube videos:( About 10 hours of videos in total. I must be missing something really obvious.

[weldin mike 27]

This was (and still is) my problem with vertical up stick welding. You need to hold a very short arc. This means that as you go across the middle of the joint, you actually need to push into the joint in a ^ pattern. To keep the arc the same length in the middle as it is on the outside.

[cj737]

Your picture shows too low amperage and symptoms of “long arcing”.

I’d run about 90 amps. Rod tilted slightly upwards. “Scratch” the material as you weld to keep your arc short. Move to left side and count- 1, 2 then move across to right side, count 1, 2 then “loop” over to left side. That loop movement deposits filler to the middle and you use that to progress upwards.

Don’t worry what the slag looks like while you weld vertically. Just keep welding. After your bead finishes and you knock off the slag, you’ll see a very decent looking weld.

[tweake]

i'll be a bit different and say do not weave.
rutile rods can be very prone to slag entrapment so you really do not want to be doing weaves.
i think your simply trying to fill up way to much of a joint.
just run stringers, keep the rod horizontal, ignore the slag and has jody says "keep a tight arc".

[Boognevatz]

weldin mike 27:
I was definietly missing this V shaped trick, I simply moved from left to right.

cj737: Maybe it is just me, but if I weld too slowly (counting to two at each side) the molten metal just drips down.
I will try it.

tweake:
From which width it is considered weaving and not whipping? Twice the electrode thickness?

On other note, I must have painted the door, because the (non-paying) client is really impatient. So I need to find some other projects to exercise uphill welding.

[cj737]

cj737: Maybe it is just me, but if I weld too slowly (counting to two at each side) the molten metal just drips down.
I will try it.

Then hold on 1, move on 2. Only your eyes can tell if the puddle has wetted in on the edges (your pictures don’t show this happening).

[weldin mike 27]

No problem mate. As I said, I don't do well at it.

I think whipping could be defined as a fast movement forward and back, in the direction of travel. Weaving is a slower movement and is usually across the path of travel.

[tweake]

tweake:
From which width it is considered weaving and not whipping? Twice the electrode thickness?

in this situation, any sideways movement i would consider weaving.
whipping is forward and back ie with uphill welds its uphill downhill. you do not want to be doing that either as you will come back over the top of slag.
all you need is a straight drag, no manipulation. just run it straight uphill.
with 6010/6011 or 7016/7018 you can run over the slag a bit without issues, but not with rutile rods 6013/7014.

[Boognevatz]

in this situation, any sideways movement i would consider weaving.

I've read in a lincoln electric .pdf, that whipping is usually with a slight sideway movement.
Here, in this pdf on page 49:
https://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-za/e ... rguide.pdf

I made a screenshot:

Whipping

whipping.jpg (80.5 KiB) Viewed 5120 times

I've followed your advice (no sideway movement; strictly vertical rod movement), and I made my best welding (yet), here is a picture:

uphill welding

photo_2020-11-08_13-15-39.jpg (69.12 KiB) Viewed 5120 times

There is no slag inclusion, I "only" need to keep constant welding speed and constant arc length.
On the picture there are 3 uphill welding side-by-side (these are three metal sheets welded on the square tube frame).

If there are other advice, just make them guys! Hopefully I will be able to weld in two weeks or so.

The garage door is done for this year. I wanted to weld a thin sheet metal outside (under the wood cover), but even with 2.0mm stainless rod (308L), I could not weld continously (I wanted to be air and water tight, it opens outside the roof, so in the rain water can get inside the door if left it open).
I will buy an argon gas tank along with a reducer, and next year I will try tig welding:)

[sbaker56]

Ahah! If you notice under material Lincoln specifies a 6010 or 6011 rod. Those rods while they can be drug are frequently used exclusively with a whipping technique. How you would want to run an uphill pass with a 6010 is not how you'd want to run a 7014 or 7018 and personally I much prefer running downhill with a 6010 while you really can't do that with a 7014.

I'd ditto the 1-2 count side to side weave. In my experience the middle will take care of itself if you fill in the sides, I like to whip right across the middle and just pause at each side for a second.

[cj737]

You'll notice the weld on the left edge is wetted in, but on the right side is cold lapped. A pretty good indication of long arc and too low an amperage.

+1 on 6010/11 preferring a whip motion up or side-side.

[tweake]

in this situation, any sideways movement i would consider weaving.

I've followed your advice (no sideway movement; strictly vertical rod movement), and I made my best welding (yet), here is a picture:

photo_2020-11-08_13-15-39.jpg

There is no slag inclusion, I "only" need to keep constant welding speed and constant arc length.
On the picture there are 3 uphill welding side-by-side (these are three metal sheets welded on the square tube frame).

If there are other advice, just make them guys! Hopefully I will be able to weld in two weeks or so.

there is a a bit of slag still stuck in there, just above half way up.

it really looks like inconsistent arc length making the wide then skinny weld. the fine ripples look like fairly consistent travel speed. need to focus on that puddle and keep it the same size. as jody says, "keep a tight arc".
rutile rods can have so much runny slag it can fool you, it can take a bit of practise to ignore the slag and focus on the puddle.

you need to get really good at stick welding before going to tig.