Welding Tips and Tricks

I'll stick weld when I'm not that concerned with welds that look great, or if I'm welding something harder to reach and harder to see (basically I don't have to concentrate so hard on arc length when stick welding, or I don't want to use gas, because gas is troublesome and expensive). However on occasion I want to simply just run a tack and not really do a full length weld, on material of different thickness, but it seems like I feel like I got to blob the stick onto the metal before it will hold, because otherwise it might seem like a good weld until I realize it's mostly the flux and not the weld itself.

So what's the right way to tack with stick? Or is the blob simply normal?

I got sticks of various diameters, for different thickness of material but I've found stick tending to want to blob over the material rather than sink in. Do I need more amperage for stick vs. TIG?

taiwanluthiers wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 3:58 am I'll stick weld when I'm not that concerned with welds that look great, or if I'm welding something harder to reach and harder to see (basically I don't have to concentrate so hard on arc length when stick welding,

I got sticks of various diameters, for different thickness of material but I've found stick tending to want to blob over the material rather than sink in. Do I need more amperage for stick vs. TIG?

well firstly thats just a horrid way to do stick welding. you do have to concentrate just as hard with stick as tig. you still have to look and see. this is one of the reasons i recommend learning stick before anything else.

it sounds a lot like your long arcing and not getting to rod down in there and actually melting metal. thats why you need to look and see what your doing. i will often do the flick, long arc, bring it back and drop it in. hold and build a tack.

jody has plenty of video's on stick welding. btw what rods are you using? different ones require different technique.

I'm not sure, it's called J422. I don't know what it compares to.

I can't just jam the rod down, doing so will stop the arc completely like sticking a tungsten.

I also got some 3.2mm rod with no marking on it whatsoever. All I know is that it's for carbon steel.

taiwanluthiers wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 6:38 am I can't just jam the rod down, doing so will stop the arc completely like sticking a tungsten.

Solid indication of too low amps and/or a cheap welder. Many cheap inverters won’t run certain types of stick rods, even though they are for DCEP. Simply assuming because it’s a “carbon steel” rod you can choose it is incorrect. I’ve seen lots of guys who stick weld and make beautiful welds, even better than most can TIG.

taiwanluthiers wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 6:38 am I'm not sure, it's called J422. I don't know what it compares to.

I can't just jam the rod down, doing so will stop the arc completely like sticking a tungsten.

I also got some 3.2mm rod with no marking on it whatsoever. All I know is that it's for carbon steel.

J422 looks to be a rutile lime rod, which we normally see with stainless rods, but this is in mild steel.
as your dealing with cheap machines and who knows what quality of rod, i would just crank the amps until its way to hot. get it to run then back it down until it still runs with a tight tight arc length. i would be inclined to run them like its a 6013, lean it over and blow the slag back.

no name rods just stay away from. some are custom manufactured or just cheap junk. without knowing what they are you will struggle to work out how to run them. therefore pointless to learn with.

cj737 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2024 9:25 am I’ve seen lots of guys who stick weld and make beautiful welds, even better than most can TIG.

+1 man those guys are awesome. there is a lot of fantastic stick welders out there.
i wish they where more on utube than those click bait 3rd world country crappy welders who get millions of views for crap.

I don't know. Most people have used Chinese welders and they're adequate.

I did up the current, sometimes past what's good for the rod and I'm getting better results, but still not perfect. The trouble is that the slag is so thick, that I literally cannot tell what the actual weld puddle looks like. So I gotta chip the slag off to see what it looks like, and sometimes they're like glass, need very solid blows with a cold chisel to get the slag off.

I'm also welding very thin steel, which you normally Tig weld on, but I decided to use stick tack because I wanted to see how it's done. It's worse on the 1mm stick because the slag is so much thicker than the actual weld, that I can think I've welded but in fact it was only slag. Also I'm welding thin to thick (I'm basically building a weld table with 3mm thick slab of mild steel using scrap I found as support to keep the table stiff). I've found I get better result as far as holding power if I strike on the thick steel then carefully migrate to thin material so I do not burn the thin supports. The problem with stick is I can't hang around for a fraction of a second longer to penetrate, once you stick you're depositing materials.

Even tried excess amps and all it did was when I stuck the rod by mistake the entire rod glowed red. Are there rods that work better in DCEN or ac?

what size rod are you using and what amps?

taiwanluthiers wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 2:35 am I don't know. Most people have used Chinese welders and they're adequate.

Even tried excess amps and all it did was when I stuck the rod by mistake the entire rod glowed red. Are there rods that work better in DCEN or ac?

i have some cheap welders myself.
the problem with most cheap stuff is you don't get the amps you set. so often you ignore that and just use whatever setting works.
sticking a rod doesn't sound like to much amps.

generally speaking most rods will work best in DCEP. DCEN is for special stuff. AC because you only have an old AC (transformer) welder or running into arc blow problems. one of my welders does have an AC mode but its not really all that useful.

rutile type rods often have thick slag and you need to use techniques to deal with that. use the arc to blow back the slag.

If welding thin stuff, 1.4mm rods. I tried 1mm rods but I couldn't get it to work at amperages that allow me to stick it to thicker material if I'm doing dissimilar material thickness. 1.4mm seems to work best, 50 amps (or so the name plate says).

taiwanluthiers wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2024 11:30 am If welding thin stuff, 1.4mm rods. I tried 1mm rods but I couldn't get it to work at amperages that allow me to stick it to thicker material if I'm doing dissimilar material thickness. 1.4mm seems to work best, 50 amps (or so the name plate says).

i would be inclined to crank it up to say 70 amps or even more, try 100. see if it blows the tip off the rod. then back it down from there. drag it a 45 degree angle, let that arc blow back the slag. if its a double coated rod (thick) you may even just drag the rod along the metal. you need to be able to run beads on that thick material.

the welding gods will be angry at me as its not a great way to do it but with so many unknowns you need to find the limits and work in from there.

With stick rods, you set the amperage based upon the rod size, not the material. You choose a rod size for the material you are welding. When welding thin to thick, focus the rod on the thick and pause there until the weld wets in. Then wick over to the thin side and back to the thick, pause and hold your rod there, then wick back.

Understanding and learning these principles is why stick should be the first process learned and practiced, and mastered before attempting the others. With stick, EVERYTHING matters more. Technique, arc length, rod position, travel speed, manipulation, puddle management, etc.

I think I'm getting it more, I'm able to weld 1mm thick materials with 1mm rod set at 30 amps.

It still don't look like Tig welds as well.

Also they don't make 7018 rods in smaller diameters, only 2.4mm is the thinnest. And the rods (that j422 stuff) gets much more expensive as the diameter gets smaller.

I see a lot of crap welds in Taiwan, done by non professionals because they don't care. They weld 1mm thick stainless panels with 3.2mm rods.

taiwanluthiers wrote: ↑Mon Jan 29, 2024 10:51 pm I think I'm getting it more, I'm able to weld 1mm thick materials with 1mm rod set at 30 amps.

It still don't look like Tig welds as well.

Also they don't make 7018 rods in smaller diameters, only 2.4mm is the thinnest. And the rods (that j422 stuff) gets much more expensive as the diameter gets smaller.

I see a lot of crap welds in Taiwan, done by non professionals because they don't care. They weld 1mm thick stainless panels with 3.2mm rods.

i've never seen or even heard of 1mm rods before. smallest locally is 2.4mm, tho i have heard of 1.6mm.
there is some tricks to using big rods on thin material. i've done 1mm wall tubing with 2.4mm rod before.

They got thin rods out there, I guess could use flux core wires. But can you enlighten me how do I weld thin stuff on a 2.4mm stick? If you ran it at the proper amp it burns through the material instantly.

taiwanluthiers wrote: ↑Tue Jan 30, 2024 5:09 am They got thin rods out there, I guess could use flux core wires. But can you enlighten me how do I weld thin stuff on a 2.4mm stick? If you ran it at the proper amp it burns through the material instantly.

using 2.4mm 6013 rutile cellulose rod, negative polarity (which you can do with those rods), a near on straight rod angle so the tip of the rod is flat against the material and use an arc length of nothing. the negative polarity lowers the grunt of the arc but it is rod dependent so no idea if it would work with your rods.
even with 6013's you want one with thin flux.

I haven't tried running a stick rod on DCEN. I always thought they were supposed to be DCEP or whatever. Do I get better result doing it on DCEN on thinner material?

I know TIG weld is DCEN.

What if you ran stick rods on AC?

And what amp do you run the 2.4mm rod on if you are welding something thin?

I found J422 is similar to 6013.

You need to learn to read the label and understand the variables in welding. Not all stick rods work on steel, and not all steel stick rods are the same. Each rod is specifically designed for the position, polarity, and material they are used on. And, not all machines will run all rods.

Some rods can be run DCEP or DCEN. Some are AC capable. Most are DC rods. Read the label to understand the amperage range for a given rod.

taiwanluthiers wrote: ↑Wed Jan 31, 2024 12:29 pm I haven't tried running a stick rod on DCEN. I always thought they were supposed to be DCEP or whatever. Do I get better result doing it on DCEN on thinner material?

I know TIG weld is DCEN.

What if you ran stick rods on AC?

And what amp do you run the 2.4mm rod on if you are welding something thin?

I found J422 is similar to 6013.

cj is on the money there.

ac really doesn't help.
yes a lot of rods are DCEP only. its really only AC rods that will run on DCEN. even then some rods are AC and DCEP only.
DCEN gives you low penetration which is why it works on thin stuff.
amps, i don't recall as that was many years ago now. i'm guessing its 30-40 somewhere. but keep in mind thats with my welder and my rods, which you do not have. so you will need to try it and dial it in first.

as cj mentions you need to know how your rods run. the label is a good guide to start with.

According to current charts 40 amp seems to be the minimum a 2.4mm 6013 will run, otherwise it won't keep a stable arc. But I got an array of thinner rods, and honestly the 1.4mm rod wouldn't even run stably until about 30 amps on my machine, I was able to weld 1mm stainless with it, but I gotta be quick. I haven't tried running the rods on DCEN to see if I can get less penetration.

I tried stick welding thin stainless steel using 2.4mm stainless rod. It is much harder. For one I really need about 50 amps before it will strike a stable arc, and this is a big problem: I would weld and it looks perfectly fine, but then it breaks off, and I find out that the weld bead was incomplete and that it was really just the flux that makes it look like it's a good weld. Once you chip it away you notice metal on either side of the steel, but none in the middle to form the joint.

And it's a huge problem because if I spent anymore time than briefly (1 sec at most) I'll burn right through the metal.

I can see why nobody stick welds something this thin. It can be done, but it will look like crap. The weld looks so much better if you can have a slower travel speed and let the metal build up, but this only works for thick materials.

TIG weld on the other hand looks so much better, especially if the fit up is very good and you give it a high current blast for a fraction of a second.

Yet again, you are wrong. The reason you’re struggling is because you have no formal training, little practice, and you’re attempting the most advanced techniques with cheap equipment and unknown rods.

You constantly cite the expense as a reason to pursue your choices, but you can either pony up and learn properly, or continue to put up with shite results.

taiwanluthiers wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 12:24 pm I tried stick welding thin stainless steel using 2.4mm stainless rod. It is much harder.

I can see why nobody stick welds something this thin. It can be done, but it will look like crap. The weld looks so much better if you can have a slower travel speed and let the metal build up, but this only works for thick materials.
.

keep in mind that they used to stick weld car bodies before mig/tig came along.
it can be done and works fine. i'm only a self taught hobby guy. if i can do it, anyone with decent training can to.

thin stainless is much harder. stainless is a different beast and the rods are way different to what i used.
but as cj points out your trying to do the advanced stuff with a lot of unknown and cheap bottom end gear with no training. thats always a recipe for failure.

i suggest get some thicker material and put some practice in.

cj737 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 1:43 pm Yet again, you are wrong. The reason you’re struggling is because you have no formal training, little practice, and you’re attempting the most advanced techniques with cheap equipment and unknown rods.

You constantly cite the expense as a reason to pursue your choices, but you can either pony up and learn properly, or continue to put up with shite results.

What do you suggest as "proper" gear for beginners then? Keep in mind that the branding in Taiwan is different and Chinese machines are almost 99% of the market here. Yes even machines marked "made in Taiwan" are likely made in China. We have plenty of "Made in the USA of global materials" (which really means made in China), and given that China is right next door, all we're going to get is Chinese machines.

So to get American made machines (assuming I find sellers who are even willing to ship) I'm looking at spending not only way too much for a machine, but also paying at least the cost of the expensive machine for shipping. Then if there's any warranty issues or supplies or support, I'm pretty much SOL

taiwanluthiers wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 8:04 pm

cj737 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 01, 2024 1:43 pm Yet again, you are wrong. The reason you’re struggling is because you have no formal training, little practice, and you’re attempting the most advanced techniques with cheap equipment and unknown rods.

You constantly cite the expense as a reason to pursue your choices, but you can either pony up and learn properly, or continue to put up with shite results.

What do you suggest as "proper" gear for beginners then? Keep in mind that the branding in Taiwan is different and Chinese machines are almost 99% of the market here. Yes even machines marked "made in Taiwan" are likely made in China. We have plenty of "Made in the USA of global materials" (which really means made in China), and given that China is right next door, all we're going to get is Chinese machines.

So to get American made machines (assuming I find sellers who are even willing to ship) I'm looking at spending not only way too much for a machine, but also paying at least the cost of the expensive machine for shipping. Then if there's any warranty issues or supplies or support, I'm pretty much SOL

its not about buying USA gear. i don't, most of it is far to expensive. i buy middle of the road gear, as asia is on our doorstep. cheaper known brands that have good reputations.
the point here is to get a known quality so your not 2nd guessing or fighting against your equipment.
thats why i use CK tig gear and furic cups, yes they are expensive but i rarely ever have to replace any of it and most importantly its reliable. so i don't waste time and money wondering if its the gear not working or is it me. eg you should not have to mod pressure regulators etc.
the same with rods, good known brands with clear accurate specs. big names in industry, not cheap unknown brands with little to no information.

china does make good gear, its trying to find it in a sea of cheap crap thats the problem.