Welding Tips and Tricks

Self-taught newbie... yes, insert eye rolls here. But practicing lots and reading up to educate myself.

I have the Harbor Freight 80amp inverter welder. I'd ultimately like to use it on 20 gauge sheet metal butt joints up to 1/8" tubing lap joints on my car. I am hoping to hear encouragement from those who have actually accomplished something like this, especially with this particular welder.

Most comments I see related to stick welding sheet metal, much less using this HF product, goes something like this... invest in a mig/tig, you'll just burn through, HF products suck. But every once in awhile I run across old-schoolers who seem to think otherwise and those are the ones I'm hoping to hear from... and if no one responds, well, I guess that's an answer.

I've been laying beads on 22 gauge with 1/16" and 3/32" 6013 DCEN and there seems to be some hope. I've read that 6013 was intended for thin steel so I don't get why people are poo-pooing this. I understand it may be harder than mig, but that's ok by me... I'm willing to take the time to learn. I love the simplicity of gasless and this tiny toaster. I hope to play with 6011 DCEN too since I've read those can work well, with practice of course.

So... I'd love to hear those success stories please

Jawon,
I actually tig weld with that exact welder, set-up for scratch start and it does a half decent job on light angle iron. You can weld with 1/16 and 3/32 6013 fairly well but it doesn't like 7018 at all. If I had to weld sheet metal with it I would run downhill with the 6011 rod but I wouldn't be above trying 6013's either. I haven't tried to stick weld too much using it because I have other welders on hand and don't need to.

I bought it to do a certain job in the plant and it did it very well. I carried it up a ladder with the strap and hung it from a beam and welded up a wall that was going to be a serious PTA to get to with any other equipment I have here. If I threw it away right now I would still be ahead of the game.

That's my opinion of it, worth the $150 price tag and does what you ask of it.

Len

I also have one of them little boxes. Got mine used for $50 on flea bay with a tig torch.
It has gotten me out of a jamb on many occasion where only 110V was available.
Harbor Freight gets attacked because some of their shit is shit. SMAW (stick)
gets bashed because there's a lot of TIG SNOBS out there that think TIG is the
only process worth a damn.

I have never used a HF inverter but I would buy one if I found a great deal for portable use just to see for myself how they work.
-Jonathan

First off, you wont find eye rolling here. Not on a newb anyway. If at all it will be against a seasoned pro, who wont accept anyone elses suggestions or ideas, on say, a certain process or part there of.

Secondly, people only run into trouble on cheap stuff when they set their expectations to high, (wanting HF to weld like dynasty)
Or expecting too much from said machine, (such as burning big az rods all day)

If you can only afford this machine and treat it right, no worries, and HF have a good returns policy, dont they? If something should go really wrong.

Mick

I actually returned the first one I bought. It was missing one of the dinse connectors, I set it on the counter and they went and got another off the shelf and never asked a single question, not even if I had the receipt. When you return something there they just give you a whole new one instead of sending yours for repairs. I broke an extension for a 3/8 drive socket set and when I took it back they gave the whole set to me for replacement.

When I buy from them I get just what I expect, cheap tools at a cheap price, nothing more and nothing less. Most times I'm pleasantly surprised that whatever it is ends up being better than expected.

Len

weldin mike 27 wrote:First off, you wont find eye rolling here. Not on a newb anyway.

Wow, thanks so much to everyone for the quick and encouraging responses. I posted this on another welding forum (which shall remain nameless) and haven't gotten a response in weeks. I wonder if it's because something like this is happening...

rake wrote:SMAW (stick) gets bashed because there's a lot of TIG SNOBS out there that think TIG is the only process worth a damn.

Anyway, I'd appreciate any other success stories of stick on sheet metal using this HF welder. A little back story... the reason why I want to stick sheet metal is because 1) I'm a cheapskate, 2) when someone says you can't, that makes me want to do it more, and 3) I tend to be a "make what you got work" type of guy instead of buying the latest and greatest (I have a 44-yo air-cooled VW, a 25-yo tube tv, and a 5-yo "dumb" phone)... there's some sick satisfaction in being a hold out!

In the meantime, I will begin posting questions as well as pics for critique. First question... I've been using the HF 1/16" 6013 and Lincoln 3/32" 6013 bought at Lowes. Should I be testing other brands too? And where can I purchase small boxes of other rods like 6011? Thanks again!

The only reason bashing starts over using cheap, underpowered equipment, is that people don't know the limitations of it....

As long as you know the limitations of your equipment, and consider that when repairing something, your good.

For sheet metal to 1/8 steel, try a 5lb box of 3/32 6013, and 6011. See what you like better...

~John

Jawon,

I have a small inverter a little larger than the one you have (Not HF) but of similar origin. I have enjoyed my welder
and for thin material try a couple of 1/16 6013 Rods on DC ENEG. Let me know what you think.
tom

For thin sheet metals, its best to use a Mig or a Tig. But since I myself don't have one yet, I do use a Taiwan made 200 amp DC stick welder for thin walled projects using 1/16" or 3/32" 6013 rods, but really very careful on the application avoiding warping and worm holes which at times I do get.

But using this welder on thin steel plates like 1/8" or 3/16", it does well and applications run smoothly. I guess its just take lots and lots of practice as being advised here by the veteran welders. As for me, I continue from time to time to practice with 6011, 7018 and 7024 and would watch Jody's videos doing stick.

I ran one of those toasters last year with some 1/16 7014. Works good.See if you can find West Arco 6013(Esab) as another option.You can glue those together at about 55 amps DC

grafted wrote:I have a small inverter a little larger than the one you have (Not HF) but of similar origin. I have enjoyed my welder and for thin material try a couple of 1/16 6013 Rods on DC ENEG.

roberts56 wrote:I do use a Taiwan made 200 amp DC stick welder for thin walled projects using 1/16" or 3/32" 6013 rods, but really very careful on the application avoiding warping and worm holes which at times I do get.

But using this welder on thin steel plates like 1/8" or 3/16", it does well and applications run smoothly.

Thanks. This is pretty much what I've been practicing with. 1/16" and 3/32" 6013 DCEN. On 20 gauge. I'm working in flat position, beads first, then will move onto joints. Once I get a good feel for it, will probably move on to 6011 for comparison. Hope to post pics soon for more detailed input.

I still have an outstanding question... is there a big difference in brands of 6013? The 1/16" is from HF and 3/32" is the Lincoln I found at Lowes.

Hey,

Here in AUS, there is a huge difference in quality between brands.

Top shelf 6012s, WIA 12ps are about 75 bucks a box for 5kg of 3.25mm.

Go to the cheap shop and get 5kg of say,....Nuweld 6013 for 15 bucks that will make you question if you can even weld.

Mick

weldin mike 27 wrote:Here in AUS, there is a huge difference in quality between brands.

Thanks, will look around.

For now, here is my humble attempt with a butt joint on 20 gauge sheet metal. I know it's sloppy but wanted to get the ball rolling on getting specific input. These are 2 separate runs, about an inch in length, the 2nd one done after the 1st cooled a little, since warping seems to be the bigger challenge than burn-through:

- HF's 1/16" 6013 DCEN
- About 26 amps
- Flat position
- Rod position just shy of perpendicular
- Arc length probably jumped around due to my inexperience but I tried to keep it "medium"

Comments? This is the backside. Is it supposed to look like that or is that good/bad penetration? And is a wet rag really the best way to minimize warping?

No worries,

wet rag is good, as its about "shutting down' the heat before it make the metal distort. That and a big block of metal, steel, alum or copper is better, to suck the heat away from the thin metal.

Pre setting is good, if possible, where the sheet/ part it flexed and clamped away from the weld, and when it pulls, it will end up flat instead of bent too far.

Mick

Bump. Hoping for some input on the welds a couple posts above. Much thanks.

The root penetration in the pictures, though not consistent, shows what you're looking for. The weld (root) on the right has about 2/3 of it's length as "spot on". You wnat to see the sharp line of the joint vanish completely, and just a wee bit of material pushing through (back-side reinforcement).

I'm not experienced on DCEN stick on thin sections, but it sure looks like you're on the right track.

As for the "top side", it looks as you expected it to look. Not half-bad, all full, and just needs practice to get to "pretty". You've figured out the basics. Hood-and-hand time will give you the rest.

Steve S

It was my first welder. The leads sucked, so i soldered them to the connector. You need great connections on your ground, every little bit helps with this light weight welder. 5/64" rods are awesome on it. It can do a lot with talent behind it. I started with zero skills and had a hard time with it.

Otto Nobedder wrote:The root penetration in the pictures, though not consistent, shows what you're looking for. The weld (root) on the right has about 2/3 of it's length as "spot on". You wnat to see the sharp line of the joint vanish completely, and just a wee bit of material pushing through (back-side reinforcement).

I'm not experienced on DCEN stick on thin sections, but it sure looks like you're on the right track.

As for the "top side", it looks as you expected it to look. Not half-bad, all full, and just needs practice to get to "pretty". You've figured out the basics. Hood-and-hand time will give you the rest.

Steve S

Thank you for the encouragement. Will keep working on it. I think controlling arc length is where I'll be focusing on at this point. I do see there is a fine line between filling up the seam all the way through and burning through.

What a refreshing seies of posts. Every other welding sight if been to rails on anyone who suggests harbor freight. Buy once cry once is what they say... but don't seem to realize not everyone who wants to build stuff has $1000-2000 budget for hobbies. Maybe its knowing the limitation is the key.

calixt0 wrote:What a refreshing seies of posts. Every other welding sight if been to rails on anyone who suggests harbor freight. Buy once cry once is what they say... but don't seem to realize not everyone who wants to build stuff has $1000-2000 budget for hobbies. Maybe its knowing the limitation is the key.

That's it, exactly. Understand what you're buying, and it's abilities and limitations (true of ANY purchase), and remember that Harbor Freight has a "no questions" exchange policy, if you buy a turd.

As recently as five years ago, I would dog H.F., but I've come to understand that they ARE trying to constantly improve to suit the market they're in.

This forum is about including and helping everyone, and each of us has to work with what he has, so why put down the equipment? Why not help someone make the best of it?

And I've seen the posts you're talking about in other forums. That "posturing" simply isn't tolerated here... check your ego at the gate, and find yourself among friends.

Steve S

I'm a Miller "drinker" (I know...."Tombstone" ) myself, but I think those HF inverter boxes are the cat's meow!! It is what it is and can handle thin metal very well! I don't own one, but I've borrowed one from a buddy last summer. I used it to quickly repair several gate latches that broke off and wheeling out my Tombstone or Miller mig would have been a PITA.

Hmmmm, I guess I should return that HF toaster to its rightful owner. Nahhhh!

Jawon wrote:Bump. Hoping for some input on the welds a couple posts above. Much thanks.

Well not really that easy to weld on thin sheets as 20, 18 or 16 gauges using stick that is why most would use mig or tig process. But anyway it can still be done using the 1/16 or 3/32 rods with much practice by doing stitch welding, 1/2" or applying tacks one at a time letting it cool for a few seconds before the next application. Been successful with these approach and it helps prevent warping.

Try it so you'll see the difference compared to applying a straight weld beads which I am sure you will burn and get holes on
your thin sheets.

roberts56 wrote:But anyway it can still be done using the 1/16 or 3/32 rods with much practice by doing stitch welding, 1/2" or applying tacks one at a time letting it cool for a few seconds before the next application. Been successful with these approach and it helps prevent warping.

Try it so you'll see the difference compared to applying a straight weld beads which I am sure you will burn and get holes on
your thin sheets.

Thank you. Yes, been going that route. I realize it's not the easiest or most efficient, but if it's reasonably possible, I'm going with it. Thanks to others who also seem to be generally confirming that it is not ludicrous! Will continue to post my progress and pics and would appreciate continued input.