First Stick Welds and problems with electrodes

VincenzioVonHook · Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:17 pm

Hi all, have been watching jody's welding video's for a while and i thought i would try some smaw today.....sorry about the bad camera...my galaxy died and im using an old phone

Have been MIG welding trailers for a year or so and can pull some pretty impressive beads. Have some site work coming up in my spare time (installing 3 bases on wheels for large lathes out in a yard that are on rough terrain) out of 75x75x4mm box section and have never stick welded before today!!!!

I pulled 2 fillets on 4mm steel this morning and one butt weld on 4mm plate (both with CIG 3/32 6010 and 6013 as that is all i have at the moment) and found it piss easy. Here's my results so far (keep in mind these are literally my first stick beads ever. Why does everyone make it out to be so hard? The butt weld below was done with 3/32 6011 @ 75A and the fillet is done with Cigweld GP 6013 (3/32 @ 85A)

: 6011 butt weld (4mm); Butt_weld_6011[1].jpg (35.24 KiB) Viewed 1126 times

: Fillet weld 6013 (4mm); IMG_20140101_120927[1].jpg (30.8 KiB) Viewed 1126 times

The one problem I am having is this.....I can run 3/32 6010 @ 75Amps fine and produce a good bead (butt weld first go), and CIG Weldskill 6013 3/32 @ 85A (The Fillet) but tried to weld with some murex 6013 and it is an ass to arc fullstop, and the flux keeps running up and sticking to the rod. If i turn the amps up to 95ish (i am using 85A with 3/32 6013) the electrode is glowing bright red before i get half way through the rod! The finish on them is very greyed as well, and look burnt. The CIG rods nearly come up polished when i hit them with the wire brush on the grinder.

Is there generally such a big difference between 6013 rods? Switching from The CIG Pipearc 10 and the GP 6013 was a breeze, the 6013 has a much softer arc and thicker flux, but i could see the pool on both easily. Many have recommended the Murex Speedex rods for general fab, but i find them disgusting to run. Maybe it is my Unimig 140 Inverter? I'm not sure.

Anyone else had bad experience with murex rods? And are the CIG rods any good? Another thing i noticed is the murex slag falls off, but the welds look like dog crap, yet the CIG slag is baked on, but the welds come out flawless. Had one CIG 7014 and it ran like butter. The murex rods are new in a 5kg pack, and the CIG rods are old rods from my mates shed....around a year sitting in a bucket. You would think new rods would be better.

Do i need more practice with the stick? Or is it a bad batch of rods. My machine only has around 60V OCV, but arcs fine with 6010 and 6013 CIG, the murex is simply a pain in the ass, and the flux will crawl up the rod every time. I have enough arc force to whip and pause CIG 6013 and not get inclusions (the slag is forming a fair distance behind the pool), but the murex rods can't push the slag back at all. If i whip and pause murex it sticks instantly ( i know you don't whip 6013, it was just a test to see how much arc force i have, if i have enough i can whip and pause with no inclusion)

plantwelder · Sun Nov 08, 2015 4:07 pm

With Murex, dcen, 80-85 amps, short arc (not quite dragging) and turn the arc force off, they penetrate well enough without it unless the steel is a bit crapped up. Too much arc force makes them behave like fireworks.

VincenzioVonHook · Sun Nov 08, 2015 9:41 pm

plantwelder wrote:With Murex, dcen, 80-85 amps, short arc (not quite dragging) and turn the arc force off, they penetrate well enough without it unless the steel is a bit crapped up. Too much arc force makes them behave like fireworks.

Tried 75-80A and they behave a little better, DCEN also helped the flux deposit instead of balling up and spattering. For some reason the flux was coming off in huge globs (heaps of spatter) running DCEP. The looked hotter than the CIG rods (running 90A DCEP) and i was around 75-80A. I would have initially though they were too cold considering the flux was running up the rod. Had another crack at the speedex 13's this morning and they definitely like a bit more rod angle compared to the CIG rods (normally 40 degree to fillet, 75 to travel), somewhere around 60 degrees in direction of travel works ok.

Never thought there would be such a difference between two 6013's! Burned my first 2mm electrode on 2mm steel today.......god they burn fast, who would of thought .5mm would make such a difference.. I have better luck with the 2.5's.

VincenzioVonHook · Sun Nov 08, 2015 9:54 pm

Just ran a fillet and butt weld with the murex 6013's. DCEN 85A, 4mm sheet. What do you think?

: Murex 6013 beads; Murex 6013 1.jpg (26.92 KiB) Viewed 1087 times

: murex 6013 beads again; Murex 6013 2.jpg (42.02 KiB) Viewed 1087 times

Was using a 12 lens with 85A....couldn't see anything while pulling that little butt weld...its all over the place.....yuk.

VincenzioVonHook · Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:26 am

some better pics. Got the murex rods down pat. Not too bad for two days on the stick....and about 15 rods burnt.

: fillet, 4mm steel, Murex 6013/85A DCEN; IMG_20151109_145111.jpg (77.21 KiB) Viewed 1076 times

: Murex 6013, slight whip, same settings; IMG_20151109_145145.jpg (61.88 KiB) Viewed 1076 times

plantwelder · Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:52 pm

Looks better, but a little concave, bordering on undercut. This will sound a bit counter-intuitive, but if you run a little higher on the current, about 80-85, you will find you'll be able to run a bit more upright, about 75 degrees, which will help your root penetration. Also you'll be able to travel a bit slower and your deposit will build up a bit more. Oh, and lose the whip, you don't need it with these rods.

There is a lot of difference between 6013's, as you've noticed the Murex have a light coating compared so, say, ESAB, 46.00, which incidentally will run pretty good dcep. The Murex have a small amount of cellulose in the coating, apparently, but not enough to class them as cellulosic. I don't know whether Murex Zodians are widely available in the US, but I've not read any posts on here that make me think they are. They are my go-to stick when I need a good appearance, but don't need a 70,000 psi weld.

As for appearance, after two days you're where I was after about two weeks. Well done.

VincenzioVonHook · Mon Nov 09, 2015 5:52 pm

plantwelder wrote:Looks better, but a little concave, bordering on undercut. This will sound a bit counter-intuitive, but if you run a little higher on the current, about 80-85, you will find you'll be able to run a bit more upright, about 75 degrees, which will help your root penetration. Also you'll be able to travel a bit slower and your deposit will build up a bit more. Oh, and lose the whip, you don't need it with these rods.

There is a lot of difference between 6013's, as you've noticed the Murex have a light coating compared so, say, ESAB, 46.00, which incidentally will run pretty good dcep. The Murex have a small amount of cellulose in the coating, apparently, but not enough to class them as cellulosic. I don't know whether Murex Zodians are widely available in the US, but I've not read any posts on here that make me think they are. They are my go-to stick when I need a good appearance, but don't need a 70,000 psi weld.

As for appearance, after two days you're where I was after about two weeks. Well done.

I thought i might be moving too fast actually.....wasn't sure if i was too hot or moving too fast. I've only got 3mm to pactice at the moment......if i move any slower the piece is bowed to the max....

I learn everything really fast but plateau even quicker......hopefully progress will continue. I wasn't sure if that was undercut up the top, thanks for clearing that up. I was thinking mu rod angle was off a bit.......cheers for the tip.