Welding Tips and Tricks

Hello all.
I have a 110\220v AC stick welder. I planned on using it on 110v as I'm working with thin metal. However, being a cheap welder, the machine was too weak on 110v. So I got a 220v dryer plug (connected wires with electrical tape). It trips the 30a dryer breaker on startup. I tried the 50a stove breaker and it trips on startup as well.

Idk what to do now. I need to get this thing running. I have the amps turned all the way down (90a) on startup and the switch is set to 220v.

Do I need a bigger breaker? How big?

Link to welder: http://www.ebay.com/itm/191832561715?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT

That should be more than enough breaker. You may want to check the plug wiring for a short.

Hmmm. I don't think I have a short. If I understand correctly, a 3 prong 220 has a neutral and two hot wires. Does it matter which hot wire goes where? I just made sure the neutral was correct.

That would be almost correct. It's 2 hots and a ground. However if you have even 1 little strand of wire shorting between the two hots or one of the hots and a ground it will trip the breaker. It's easy if it's stranded wire to get a stray strand that crosses over inside the small plug bodies.

If it's not an issue inside the plug then it could be internal to the machine and also the real reason for your troubles on the 110.

I see. Thanks for the help. The plug is new and there's really no way of checking it without breaking it. I will have a look inside of the buzz box tomorrow. You sure it's not too small of a breaker? It starts for about 1-5 seconds before tripping it. Also, it dims the lights when it's on. Idk, I'm no electrician.

That takes a huge draw to trip a 50 amp breaker. Sounds like there is defiantly something wrong inside. Do you have an amp clamp? Or a volt meter that will check ohms?

If there's a short in the plug, it'll trip the breaker whether the welder is even turned on or not. I tend to suspect the machine internals, but breakers have been known to go weak over time. It'd be nice if the OP can measure the current when the breaker trips.

Thanks for the help guys. I guess that rules out the plug. Unfortunately, I don't have the tools to measure current. I'm about to open up the buzz box and check it out. If I can't find anything wrong with it, I'm going to try it at a friend's house. Anything I should look for specifically?

Update: Everything seems in order internally.

Turns out the dryer (and stove) receptical is a 3 prong with 2 hot and a neutral. The welder is 2 hot and a ground. When hooking up the dryer plug, I hooked ground to neutral thinking that it was a ground. Are they compatible or is that why my breaker is tripping?

Strictly from a voltage standpoint , 240 volts is two hots, 120 volts is one hot and the neutral. Both 240 and 120 add a ground to help prevent electrocution. There is to my knowledge no combination that is two hots and a neutral. What happens most times is someone uses wire that is not properly color coded, hence the confusion.

As far as I can tell, that's not true. I've installed 3 and 4 prong dryer plugs and the 3 prong ones don't have a ground. In fact, it says neutral on the cord and the wiring diagram. The 3 prong dryer plug I installed on the welder also says neutral on the center wire. It's the same plug that my dryer and stove take too. I assume that the neutral also serves as a ground but, idk if it's compatible with my welder that doesn't use a neutral.

I'm an electrician so maybe I can help you out. I will probably give you more information than you need but just follow it through.

In the past, most stove and dryers utilized a 3 wire hook up--2 hot wires with 240volts measured between the two hot's and a 3rd wire which is a neutral/ground. You would measure 120 volts from either hot wire to the neutral/ground. It does not matter which hot wire goes to which hot terminal but you cannot must have the neutral/ground wired to the correct terminal.

Because stoves and dryers have small 120 volt loads (most of the load is 240 volt) The code allowed the use of 1 wire (the 3rd wire) to act as both the neutral and the ground under certain circumstances (in the past)

This practice changed in the code some time ago (20 years??) and all new stove and dryer wiring is now required to be 4 wire, 2 hots, 1 neutral and 1 ground although the 3 wire circuits are completely legal for existing installations. The difference in wiring is the position of the ground/neutral jumper inside the stove or dryer but that is a different issue.

stoves are generally 40 amp or 50 amp breakers and dryers are usually 30 amp. Your welder should work on the 3 wire circuit with no problem.

I suspect the problem is in your welding machine. When you power it up the welder should come on and stay on especially if your not welding (it doesn't draw much load until you start welding) so I doubt it's the breaker if it's tripping before you start welding. I would make sure the power is off (be safe) and check all the wiring connections. Make sure that the welder is connected for 240 volts internally if this is a 120/240 machine you may have to remove or add jumpers inside the welder. See the wiring diagram or owners manual. Some welders like the Miller Maxstar have "auto link" the electronics telss the machine what voltage and phase you are feeding it and it make the internal adjustment on it's own. Not all machines have this feature.

hope this helps,
Ed

I'm an electrician so maybe I can help you out. I will probably give you more information than you need but just follow it through.

In the past, most stove and dryers utilized a 3 wire hook up--2 hot wires with 240volts measured between the two hot's and a 3rd wire which is a neutral/ground. You would measure 120 volts from either hot wire to the neutral/ground. It does not matter which hot wire goes to which hot terminal but you cannot must have the neutral/ground wired to the correct terminal.

Because stoves and dryers have small 120 volt loads (most of the load is 240 volt) The code allowed the use of 1 wire (the 3rd wire) to act as both the neutral and the ground under certain circumstances (in the past)

This practice changed in the code some time ago (20 years??) and all new stove and dryer wiring is now required to be 4 wire, 2 hots, 1 neutral and 1 ground although the 3 wire circuits are completely legal for existing installations. The difference in wiring is the position of the ground/neutral jumper inside the stove or dryer but that is a different issue.

stoves are generally 40 amp or 50 amp breakers and dryers are usually 30 amp. Your welder should work on the 3 wire circuit with no problem.

I suspect the problem is in your welding machine. When you power it up the welder should come on and stay on especially if your not welding (it doesn't draw much load until you start welding) so I doubt it's the breaker if it's tripping before you start welding. I would make sure the power is off (be safe) and check all the wiring connections. Make sure that the welder is connected for 240 volts internally if this is a 120/240 machine you may have to remove or add jumpers inside the welder. See the wiring diagram or owners manual. Some welders like the Miller Maxstar have "auto link" the electronics telss the machine what voltage and phase you are feeding it and it make the internal adjustment on it's own. Not all machines have this feature.

hope this helps,
Ed

Eddie702 wrote:I'm an electrician so maybe I can help you out. I will probably give you more information than you need but just follow it through.

In the past, most stove and dryers utilized a 3 wire hook up--2 hot wires with 240volts measured between the two hot's and a 3rd wire which is a neutral/ground. You would measure 120 volts from either hot wire to the neutral/ground. It does not matter which hot wire goes to which hot terminal but you cannot must have the neutral/ground wired to the correct terminal.

Because stoves and dryers have small 120 volt loads (most of the load is 240 volt) The code allowed the use of 1 wire (the 3rd wire) to act as both the neutral and the ground under certain circumstances (in the past)

This practice changed in the code some time ago (20 years??) and all new stove and dryer wiring is now required to be 4 wire, 2 hots, 1 neutral and 1 ground although the 3 wire circuits are completely legal for existing installations. The difference in wiring is the position of the ground/neutral jumper inside the stove or dryer but that is a different issue.

stoves are generally 40 amp or 50 amp breakers and dryers are usually 30 amp. Your welder should work on the 3 wire circuit with no problem.

I suspect the problem is in your welding machine. When you power it up the welder should come on and stay on especially if your not welding (it doesn't draw much load until you start welding) so I doubt it's the breaker if it's tripping before you start welding. I would make sure the power is off (be safe) and check all the wiring connections. Make sure that the welder is connected for 240 volts internally if this is a 120/240 machine you may have to remove or add jumpers inside the welder. See the wiring diagram or owners manual. Some welders like the Miller Maxstar have "auto link" the electronics telss the machine what voltage and phase you are feeding it and it make the internal adjustment on it's own. Not all machines have this feature.

hope this helps,
Ed

Just run NEMA 14-50 four wire plugs with welder adapter dogbones or just lop off the welder plug and install a 14-50 plug.
Easy for the luddites and it meets code.


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