I am a bit more seasoned when it comes to the GMAW and SMAW processes but I have recently started learning my way around GTAW and I have noticed some things that are not quite right. I am watching the videos and have learned a lot in a short amount of time. The one thing that I cant figure out at the moment is when I use 1/8" filler ER70-2. The filler seems to stick to the workpiece and I actually have to pull it away and in turn causes lots of problems.. The tungsten is 3/32 and when I use 3/32 filler is doesn't do this. Only when I use the bigger 1/8" filler. Do I need to switch to 1/8 tungsten? Turn up the heat more? I am trying to do all the TiG Skill drills on clean mild steel.
Thanks for the info guys...
I was told to focus more on my stainless TiG and MiG process for our upcoming contract. I have already got sufficient enough to perform what's needed with the wire-feed portion of the contract using Lincoln Electric .035" Blue Max MiG 308LSi wire... but the stainless TiG process is a different beast. I am using a 3/32 gas lens on #7 cup with the red (thoriated) tungsten. While searching thru the shop from some of our old contracts the only stainless filler I could find was 1/8" 308L and 1/16" 308L. with the 1/16 filler, my welds were ok but so very small and I felt I wanted a little more meatier weld bead. So I tried the 1/8" filler and pretty much the same thing as the Original Post.. I found the filler was sticking to the workpiece too much and as a "noob" TiG welder.. this started to lower my confidence drastically... So me and the foreman took a walk to this old storage closet and sure enough I found lots of left over filler rods and one tube of 3/32" ER316/316L. I immediately tried it out on some scrap and got some nicer beads and no sticking to the workpiece. My concern however is I have no idea what ER316 is for. It seemed to weld just as smooth as the ER70S-2 3/32" filler I used earlier. Can someone explain to me what this filler is designed for and / or if its fine to use in place of 308L?
The TiG welder I am using in the shop is the Miller Syncrowave 250 DX. If someone is also familiar with this machine and could offer some helpful tips on good settings.. that also would be very helpful
In advance I apologize for such lengthy post and generic questions but I really want to learn this process and get as comfortable with it as I am with other processes.
I was told to focus more on my stainless TiG and MiG process for our upcoming contract. I have already got sufficient enough to perform what's needed with the wire-feed portion of the contract using Lincoln Electric .035" Blue Max MiG 308LSi wire... but the stainless TiG process is a different beast. I am using a 3/32 gas lens on #7 cup with the red (thoriated) tungsten. While searching thru the shop from some of our old contracts the only stainless filler I could find was 1/8" 308L and 1/16" 308L. with the 1/16 filler, my welds were ok but so very small and I felt I wanted a little more meatier weld bead. So I tried the 1/8" filler and pretty much the same thing as the Original Post.. I found the filler was sticking to the workpiece too much and as a "noob" TiG welder.. this started to lower my confidence drastically... So me and the foreman took a walk to this old storage closet and sure enough I found lots of left over filler rods and one tube of 3/32" ER316/316L. I immediately tried it out on some scrap and got some nicer beads and no sticking to the workpiece. My concern however is I have no idea what ER316 is for. It seemed to weld just as smooth as the ER70S-2 3/32" filler I used earlier. Can someone explain to me what this filler is designed for and / or if its fine to use in place of 308L?
The TiG welder I am using in the shop is the Miller Syncrowave 250 DX. If someone is also familiar with this machine and could offer some helpful tips on good settings.. that also would be very helpful
In advance I apologize for such lengthy post and generic questions but I really want to learn this process and get as comfortable with it as I am with other processes.
316L is a low carbon grade of stainless filler. Its perfect for welding 303/304 or 316 grade stainless material. Always use same or higher grade of stainless filler to parent metal.
You need a LOT of gas coverage and post flow when welding stainless. A #12 cup is popular for stainless, a #8 is very common too for certain applications. But a #7 is minimum for "general" work in my opinion. A good gas lens is a must.
Stainless requires less heat per 0.000s of thickness than carbon steel. If you had a piece of .125 carbon, you would likely use 125 amps. Same thickness stainless, you can likely get away with 85-95 amps. Stainless puddles quickly, and you need to MOVE to avoid heat saturation. Pulse is also common, not sure if your box has it?
If you provided a bit more details on the work, someone could probably give you very close amperage and settings to get you there. I like thoriated tungstens for stainless. I'd be running 1/16, maybe 3/32 filler depending upon the joint and thickness. And I'd run 20CFH with an 8 cup or 25-30CFH for a #12 Fupa cup.
You need a LOT of gas coverage and post flow when welding stainless. A #12 cup is popular for stainless, a #8 is very common too for certain applications. But a #7 is minimum for "general" work in my opinion. A good gas lens is a must.
Stainless requires less heat per 0.000s of thickness than carbon steel. If you had a piece of .125 carbon, you would likely use 125 amps. Same thickness stainless, you can likely get away with 85-95 amps. Stainless puddles quickly, and you need to MOVE to avoid heat saturation. Pulse is also common, not sure if your box has it?
If you provided a bit more details on the work, someone could probably give you very close amperage and settings to get you there. I like thoriated tungstens for stainless. I'd be running 1/16, maybe 3/32 filler depending upon the joint and thickness. And I'd run 20CFH with an 8 cup or 25-30CFH for a #12 Fupa cup.
EDIT: my cfh of argon is 20-25 and my biggest gaslens cup is #8 do you recommend a furic #12 and more cfh???
At the moment since we are in between projects at work all the material I am finding is left overs and digging in the scrap bin. I really don't know what exactly type SS it is. ( I will try to find out more specific on Monday) So If I have a few test plates (1/8" or 3/16") ss coupons... im assuming its ok to practice with the ER316/316L right?
when I switch to 1/16 tungsten and use 1/16th 308L filler the beads I produce seem to be way smaller than anything we will be welding on this upcoming project. Monday I guess I can just ask the supply guy to order a couple tubes of 3/32" 308L filler.
Back to the 1/8" filler (be it 308L or ER70S-2) I can only use laywire technique. I absolutely cannot dip those fillers and I have no idea why
At the moment since we are in between projects at work all the material I am finding is left overs and digging in the scrap bin. I really don't know what exactly type SS it is. ( I will try to find out more specific on Monday) So If I have a few test plates (1/8" or 3/16") ss coupons... im assuming its ok to practice with the ER316/316L right?
when I switch to 1/16 tungsten and use 1/16th 308L filler the beads I produce seem to be way smaller than anything we will be welding on this upcoming project. Monday I guess I can just ask the supply guy to order a couple tubes of 3/32" 308L filler.
Back to the 1/8" filler (be it 308L or ER70S-2) I can only use laywire technique. I absolutely cannot dip those fillers and I have no idea why
Without knowing what you’ll be welding, it’s impossible to say whether a #12 will be usable in your application. For flat, fillet, lap joints where you have lots of room, sure a #12 is excellent. But millons of miles of stainless has been welded with smaller cups than a #12.
A 3/32 tungsten is probably the most commonly used and should have no issues welded with 1/16 up to 1/8 filler. Your tungsten grind is important too.
With larger filler, dip, push the puddle, then dip again. Push the puddle enough that it “keyholes” on the leading edge before adding more filler. It’s also important that the filler remained shielded while you’re welding. It will get contaminated very quickly dipping and pulling it out of the gas. That’s why if possible, a larger cup is used.
A 3/32 tungsten is probably the most commonly used and should have no issues welded with 1/16 up to 1/8 filler. Your tungsten grind is important too.
With larger filler, dip, push the puddle, then dip again. Push the puddle enough that it “keyholes” on the leading edge before adding more filler. It’s also important that the filler remained shielded while you’re welding. It will get contaminated very quickly dipping and pulling it out of the gas. That’s why if possible, a larger cup is used.
Thanks to all that replied. With the issue I am having using 1/8" filler sticking to the workpiece.. I just heard a guy say in a youtube video that dipping too far into the puddle will cause that. So I will try again asap and see if I can fix my issue.
Thanks for the dip, push dip keyhole method. I think I just need more practice overall and with proper timing pretty soon this will all click.
I also seem to prefer the 3/32 tungsten at this point. I haven't tried the blue band Lanthanated tungsten which Jody seems to recommend. I have only used the red band.
Thanks again for all the replies. I have a few pictures I am going to post in this thread in just a bit of some work I have already done... To a trained eye we might find something obvious.. …Now let me create a image hosting account
Mr. Poland308, I really like the way you think. Someone like me who has a tendency to overthink a problem can slow things down quite a bit.. and when I catch myself doing this I immediately revert to the "Just Weld It" & "Work with what you got" attitude which many times works much better than imagined at first.Poland308 wrote:I use a standard 7 or 8 cup for everything. Even out side. 20 -25 cfh is fine. Higher or lower can cause problems.
All of the coupons I am welding currently practicing are the basic (Lap, Fillet, Outside Corner, Pad of Beads) I am certain I'm not ready for any advanced positioned coupons yet.cj737 wrote:Without knowing what you’ll be welding, it’s impossible to say whether a #12 will be usable in your application. For flat, fillet, lap joints where you have lots of room, sure a #12 is excellent. But millons of miles of stainless has been welded with smaller cups than a #12.
A 3/32 tungsten is probably the most commonly used and should have no issues welded with 1/16 up to 1/8 filler. Your tungsten grind is important too.
With larger filler, dip, push the puddle, then dip again. Push the puddle enough that it “keyholes” on the leading edge before adding more filler. It’s also important that the filler remained shielded while you’re welding. It will get contaminated very quickly dipping and pulling it out of the gas. That’s why if possible, a larger cup is used.
Thanks for the dip, push dip keyhole method. I think I just need more practice overall and with proper timing pretty soon this will all click.
I also seem to prefer the 3/32 tungsten at this point. I haven't tried the blue band Lanthanated tungsten which Jody seems to recommend. I have only used the red band.
Thanks again for all the replies. I have a few pictures I am going to post in this thread in just a bit of some work I have already done... To a trained eye we might find something obvious.. …Now let me create a image hosting account
With a couple weeks of practice... this is my Stainless TiG work so far.
3/32" (Red Band) tungsten, 3/32 ER316/316L filler, #8 Stubby Gas Lens,
about 20 cfh of Argon and Amperage was set around 100 amps mostly but I dropped to 90'ish and upped to 110"ish on some passes. (Not sure which passes are which but I will keep better track of each pass and its amperage this week) Should I be running a bit less amperage? What if I was using the 1/16" E308L filler instead... less amperage say 85'ish? I am going to retry using the 1/8" E308 filler rods on the same coupons this week and see if I can get better results.
Please pick these welds apart.
I really want to learn how to master this process.. so any and all criticism / advice will be helpful.
One thing I really don't understand is the colors. Why did the fillet weld have so much less color than the lap welds? I believe I heard a colorless Stainless weld is Ideal... if this is true then why are most images I find on the web full of colors. I see tons of stainless TiG artwork and its loaded with colors. (as if the artist purposely puts more blue in certain areas and other shades in certain other areas.. etc etc...) Is it more of a WPS do or don't in industry type of thing and the color is just nice to look at?
I need to work on my consistency and timing but I feel like I am on the right track. A problem I am having a lot is nearing the end of my pass.. the comfort zone gets depleted and torch angle, arc length, filler out of gas zone... all of the above ends up happening and it shows in the finished weld.
Also, every picture in this post was of me standing at a table propped on my forearms. I have since wondered if getting a stool to sit down on would help my consistency any... and still able to use a foot pedal....
Thanks in advance for comments and advice!
3/32" (Red Band) tungsten, 3/32 ER316/316L filler, #8 Stubby Gas Lens,
about 20 cfh of Argon and Amperage was set around 100 amps mostly but I dropped to 90'ish and upped to 110"ish on some passes. (Not sure which passes are which but I will keep better track of each pass and its amperage this week) Should I be running a bit less amperage? What if I was using the 1/16" E308L filler instead... less amperage say 85'ish? I am going to retry using the 1/8" E308 filler rods on the same coupons this week and see if I can get better results.
Please pick these welds apart. I really want to learn how to master this process.. so any and all criticism / advice will be helpful.
One thing I really don't understand is the colors. Why did the fillet weld have so much less color than the lap welds? I believe I heard a colorless Stainless weld is Ideal... if this is true then why are most images I find on the web full of colors. I see tons of stainless TiG artwork and its loaded with colors. (as if the artist purposely puts more blue in certain areas and other shades in certain other areas.. etc etc...) Is it more of a WPS do or don't in industry type of thing and the color is just nice to look at?
I need to work on my consistency and timing but I feel like I am on the right track. A problem I am having a lot is nearing the end of my pass.. the comfort zone gets depleted and torch angle, arc length, filler out of gas zone... all of the above ends up happening and it shows in the finished weld.
Also, every picture in this post was of me standing at a table propped on my forearms. I have since wondered if getting a stool to sit down on would help my consistency any... and still able to use a foot pedal....
Thanks in advance for comments and advice!
Gah I seen this a bit late... I just spent easily an hour resizing images and uploading etc... thanks for the tip tho.. I rather not use 3rd party code if not necessary.LtBadd wrote:No need to, you can upload them from your desktop...jbwelds wrote: …Now let me create a image hosting account
Fist off, those all look really good. Color is the presence of heat, the deeper the color, the hotter the base metal is/was.
More gas shielding creates less color to an extent. For your fillet welds, the gas is covering more of the surrounding area than on a lap weld. That’s often why lap joints get more color. Also, the longer the weld, the more heat saturation, the deeper the color. You can use a stainless steel brush immediately after you put the torch down and brush the weld and remove much if not all the color. Else, you might need to passivate themto clean them based upon a WPS.
To weld (TIG, MIG, Stick) you MUST be comfortable. Don’t rest your weight on your forearms, or if you must, stop when you get out of the zone, move your body, and start again. Don’t press a bad situation, you’ll only make bad welds.
More gas shielding creates less color to an extent. For your fillet welds, the gas is covering more of the surrounding area than on a lap weld. That’s often why lap joints get more color. Also, the longer the weld, the more heat saturation, the deeper the color. You can use a stainless steel brush immediately after you put the torch down and brush the weld and remove much if not all the color. Else, you might need to passivate themto clean them based upon a WPS.
To weld (TIG, MIG, Stick) you MUST be comfortable. Don’t rest your weight on your forearms, or if you must, stop when you get out of the zone, move your body, and start again. Don’t press a bad situation, you’ll only make bad welds.
Thanks... that really boosted my confidence up! I will keep dabbing away. and you just reminded me about getting out of the zone... I should totally practice my stops/restarts. Will put that on to do list for this week.cj737 wrote:Fist off, those all look really good. Color is the presence of heat, the deeper the color, the hotter the base metal is/was.
More gas shielding creates less color to an extent. For your fillet welds, the gas is covering more of the surrounding area than on a lap weld. That’s often why lap joints get more color. Also, the longer the weld, the more heat saturation, the deeper the color. You can use a stainless steel brush immediately after you put the torch down and brush the weld and remove much if not all the color. Else, you might need to passivate themto clean them based upon a WPS.
To weld (TIG, MIG, Stick) you MUST be comfortable. Don’t rest your weight on your forearms, or if you must, stop when you get out of the zone, move your body, and start again. Don’t press a bad situation, you’ll only make bad welds.