ajlskater1
- ajlskater1
-
Ace
-
Posts:
-
Joined:Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:32 am
I completely agree that grinding your own welds makes you a better welder, I did that for a few years at my first job, I liked because it gave me time to study my welds and come up with with ideas on how to improve myself. I was in your exact shoes at my first shop, even after I became the lead welder St my first place I still had to grind and the other guys who had been welding for thirty years didn't. It was bad there I had over percent two hundred efficiency and the other guys couldn't maintain sixty percent and even worse the grinders wouldn't grind the other guys parts cause they were so bad they would take mine and make me grind and fix the other guys stuff. It is frustrating but keep doing what you are doing and everything will work and they will see your quality and efficiency.
Landyman
- Landyman
-
Active Member
-
Posts:
-
Joined:Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:44 pm
-
Location:Bromsgrove, England
It is a pity these two guys aren't on my shift, because they would either leave or pull their fingers out or make a complaint about me for badgering them every day. ANY one of which would be an acceptable conclusionajlskater1 wrote:I completely agree that grinding your own welds makes you a better welder, I did that for a few years at my first job, I liked because it gave me time to study my welds and come up with with ideas on how to improve myself. I was in your exact shoes at my first shop, even after I became the lead welder St my first place I still had to grind and the other guys who had been welding for thirty years didn't. It was bad there I had over percent two hundred efficiency and the other guys couldn't maintain sixty percent and even worse the grinders wouldn't grind the other guys parts cause they were so bad they would take mine and make me grind and fix the other guys stuff. It is frustrating but keep doing what you are doing and everything will work and they will see your quality and efficiency.
Hopefully, this course will put another feather in my cap and open another door somewhere else with a bit more money.
I'd happily pay for more courses, but i'd need to get a job working days.Working shifts means i have to take a day's holiday when i'm on the late shift.
Tonight's game plan is to knock out the lap and flat fillet joints. I don't see any problems with those...
Then, if i have time, another bash at the tube to plate. This time standing up looking down on the joint to allow me to hopefully weld it in two goes. With the plate up off the bench and the tungsten sticking out further. I think that was the main reason i had so much difficulty getting a tack to start. Fingers crossed!
I'll report back tomorrow with how it went.
Landyman
- Landyman
-
Active Member
-
Posts:
-
Joined:Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:44 pm
-
Location:Bromsgrove, England
well, it looks like i'll be on the phone again tomorrow. Nothing too serious though.
I had a good two and a half hours welding as i had a machine all to myself.
I knocked out three lap joints that were excellent on top, including the stop start in the middle of the weld. Penetration was showing itself on two of them, but Barry, tutor, said he'd like to see just a little bit more. I then did two or three fillet welds. Again Barry was very happy with the top, and although you could see a line along the back of the base plate, he wanted to see just a little bit more. Then i took a break and had a look through the course handbook. I noticed that it specifies the size of tube to be one inch O/D by one inch high welded onto the centre of a two inch square 1/8th thick plate. We have the plate, but the tube they have bought is 40mm O/D. thats about 1 inch and 9/16ths O/D.
I had two further attempts at the tube on plate. It did help to stand up, but i found i couldn't see what the tube at the plate was doing, so all too often it was because it had gone up in smoke.... I was having a lot of trouble getting the right torch angle. I'm used to having what i think, is a shorter torch at work and the head angle is flexible. The torches at college are about ten inches long, about an inch in diameter with a fixed head.
I'm used to resting my hand on the bench or something on the fixture or the job and i just can't seem to get comfortable
and get the right angle.
I think for next week i'm going to take a length of three inch or so diameter pipe from work to lift the plate and tube up off the desk to see if that helps.
Pulling the tungsten out further helped to get into the joint, but i was still getting too much of the tube melted away. If only i could keep a point on the tungsten... It would be just like welding steel
So after getting my spirit up with the lap, then down with the tube/plate, i thought i'd raise them up with another couple of fillets. THen i thought, why not have a bash at vertical up?
So i tacked two plates together, and then looked for a way of holding them in position. For some reason there were no 'arms' in the bay tonight. Being a practical guy, i improvised. I sat the base plate on top of the tube and rested it against an angle standing up behind it. It seemed safe enough, so i started.
I remember one of you guys saying you always kept your torch at 15 degrees. I got the weld pool started at the bottom but when i tried to dip the rod, it jut balled and ran away. You know your welding stinks when your material doesn't want to stick around!
So i aimed the torch downwards, which meant i was getting good penetration and i could dip the rod. Once i had gone about an inch i managed to aim the torch at right angles to the joint and welded in a sort of advbance, pause, aim the torch down a bit, dip the rod and then up again, melt right into the joint, pause, back, dip and so on. it was going pretty well, right up until the point the work fell straight forwards onto my tungsten... LOUD SWEARING ensued...
But i showed Barry and he said he'd seen worse.
So i tried it again, and this time i tacked the bottom corner onto the angle i'd just messed up, which meant it raised it up off the bench and was stable.
I cocked the start up by melting a hole into the upright bit and spent the first inch trying to fill the hole and get back to a normal bead. I was still having trouble dipping the rod now and then and at this point Barry appeared. He suggested sliding the rod downwards along the root of the joint into the puddle that way. I tried that on the next attempt, and after AGAIN cocking up the first inch and a half, i produced the next three inches of 'near perfect' line of dimes bead, right up ntil the last 3/4 of an inch when i stuck the rod to the weld and while trying to melt it with the torch lost concentration and nearly had a big lump 'fall out' due to the fact my foot was still at '100mph' on the pedal!
Conclusion:
Butt joint... I'll come back to that one...
I think i'll use the Jody method, but with a very small gap. I think i just need to get the right travel speed.
Tube to plate... It's scarey, VERY scarey, I'M SCARED!
Lap joint... NO problem.
Fillet joint... NO problem
Fillet joint vertical up... It's gonna be troublesome, but once i crack the first inch, NO problem.
The handbook lists the criteria that the candidate must be able to define...
At first glance a bit of panic set in, but now i've read through the 15 different points, most of it i know, some of it will need to be read up on so that i can say what it means to the examiner, and a few i'll have to research because i haven't got a clue. It would definately have helped to have this six weeks ago though.
I'll have to speak to Ben again tomorrow because as it stands we can't perform the tube to plate test without the required 25mm diameter tube, we still have no acid to etch the welds to check for penetration and Barry doesn't have the list of questions.
I'm in two minds about being given the questions, which is what Barry said he would do when he gets them.
Part of me is saying, "GIMME GIMME GIMME", and the other part is saying "no thanks, i'll just learn the subject properly...
Afterall, MY aim for doing this course is not to get a piece of paper, it's to learn how to tig weld aluminium, and if a byproduct of me getting that piece of paper is that i become a more knowledgable welder, then so be it!
then again... NO
I had a good two and a half hours welding as i had a machine all to myself.
I knocked out three lap joints that were excellent on top, including the stop start in the middle of the weld. Penetration was showing itself on two of them, but Barry, tutor, said he'd like to see just a little bit more. I then did two or three fillet welds. Again Barry was very happy with the top, and although you could see a line along the back of the base plate, he wanted to see just a little bit more. Then i took a break and had a look through the course handbook. I noticed that it specifies the size of tube to be one inch O/D by one inch high welded onto the centre of a two inch square 1/8th thick plate. We have the plate, but the tube they have bought is 40mm O/D. thats about 1 inch and 9/16ths O/D.
I had two further attempts at the tube on plate. It did help to stand up, but i found i couldn't see what the tube at the plate was doing, so all too often it was because it had gone up in smoke.... I was having a lot of trouble getting the right torch angle. I'm used to having what i think, is a shorter torch at work and the head angle is flexible. The torches at college are about ten inches long, about an inch in diameter with a fixed head.
I'm used to resting my hand on the bench or something on the fixture or the job and i just can't seem to get comfortable
and get the right angle.
I think for next week i'm going to take a length of three inch or so diameter pipe from work to lift the plate and tube up off the desk to see if that helps.
Pulling the tungsten out further helped to get into the joint, but i was still getting too much of the tube melted away. If only i could keep a point on the tungsten... It would be just like welding steel
So after getting my spirit up with the lap, then down with the tube/plate, i thought i'd raise them up with another couple of fillets. THen i thought, why not have a bash at vertical up?
So i tacked two plates together, and then looked for a way of holding them in position. For some reason there were no 'arms' in the bay tonight. Being a practical guy, i improvised. I sat the base plate on top of the tube and rested it against an angle standing up behind it. It seemed safe enough, so i started.
I remember one of you guys saying you always kept your torch at 15 degrees. I got the weld pool started at the bottom but when i tried to dip the rod, it jut balled and ran away. You know your welding stinks when your material doesn't want to stick around!
So i aimed the torch downwards, which meant i was getting good penetration and i could dip the rod. Once i had gone about an inch i managed to aim the torch at right angles to the joint and welded in a sort of advbance, pause, aim the torch down a bit, dip the rod and then up again, melt right into the joint, pause, back, dip and so on. it was going pretty well, right up until the point the work fell straight forwards onto my tungsten... LOUD SWEARING ensued...
But i showed Barry and he said he'd seen worse.
So i tried it again, and this time i tacked the bottom corner onto the angle i'd just messed up, which meant it raised it up off the bench and was stable.
I cocked the start up by melting a hole into the upright bit and spent the first inch trying to fill the hole and get back to a normal bead. I was still having trouble dipping the rod now and then and at this point Barry appeared. He suggested sliding the rod downwards along the root of the joint into the puddle that way. I tried that on the next attempt, and after AGAIN cocking up the first inch and a half, i produced the next three inches of 'near perfect' line of dimes bead, right up ntil the last 3/4 of an inch when i stuck the rod to the weld and while trying to melt it with the torch lost concentration and nearly had a big lump 'fall out' due to the fact my foot was still at '100mph' on the pedal!
Conclusion:
Butt joint... I'll come back to that one...
I think i'll use the Jody method, but with a very small gap. I think i just need to get the right travel speed.
Tube to plate... It's scarey, VERY scarey, I'M SCARED!
Lap joint... NO problem.
Fillet joint... NO problem
Fillet joint vertical up... It's gonna be troublesome, but once i crack the first inch, NO problem.
The handbook lists the criteria that the candidate must be able to define...
At first glance a bit of panic set in, but now i've read through the 15 different points, most of it i know, some of it will need to be read up on so that i can say what it means to the examiner, and a few i'll have to research because i haven't got a clue. It would definately have helped to have this six weeks ago though.
I'll have to speak to Ben again tomorrow because as it stands we can't perform the tube to plate test without the required 25mm diameter tube, we still have no acid to etch the welds to check for penetration and Barry doesn't have the list of questions.
I'm in two minds about being given the questions, which is what Barry said he would do when he gets them.
Part of me is saying, "GIMME GIMME GIMME", and the other part is saying "no thanks, i'll just learn the subject properly...
Afterall, MY aim for doing this course is not to get a piece of paper, it's to learn how to tig weld aluminium, and if a byproduct of me getting that piece of paper is that i become a more knowledgable welder, then so be it!
then again... NO
- weldin mike 27
-
Weldmonger
-
Posts:
-
Joined:Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:59 pm
-
Location:Australia; Victoria
Hey,
Man that could drive a man to drink. I remember in one of Jodys videos that he showed that you can use draino or similar for etching aluminium. Could do in a pinch.
Mick
Man that could drive a man to drink. I remember in one of Jodys videos that he showed that you can use draino or similar for etching aluminium. Could do in a pinch.
Mick
ajlskater1
- ajlskater1
-
Ace
-
Posts:
-
Joined:Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:32 am
Its actually not draino its toilet bowl cleaner and its works pretty good as long as you buff the cut really smooth. It definitely takes some getting used switching from a small style flex head to a massive torch. I hate the massive air cooled torches but sometimes you got to use what is available. Jody's tig finger works great when there is no where to prop, its not always as comfortable but UT beats trying to free hand with your torch. I think on your vertical up you are keeping the rod to close to the arc for to long that's why it's balling up, especially if you are using 4043 or 400
4. The 4000 series rod tend to melt at lower amperage so you need to keep it farther away than dip than pull it out again. If you are having problems dipping accurately try resting your filler hand proped on the top of the joint and feed the rod once you get close to your hand just lift your hand away. Also if your school has a angle gauge that is a good tool to reach yourself to hold the right angle cause 15 degrees us not a lot and should not cause the rod to ball. You can point it down when adding rod but just know your weld we be more built up cause you are letting gravity pull the weld down.
4. The 4000 series rod tend to melt at lower amperage so you need to keep it farther away than dip than pull it out again. If you are having problems dipping accurately try resting your filler hand proped on the top of the joint and feed the rod once you get close to your hand just lift your hand away. Also if your school has a angle gauge that is a good tool to reach yourself to hold the right angle cause 15 degrees us not a lot and should not cause the rod to ball. You can point it down when adding rod but just know your weld we be more built up cause you are letting gravity pull the weld down.
- weldin mike 27
-
Weldmonger
-
Posts:
-
Joined:Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:59 pm
-
Location:Australia; Victoria
Hey,
I cant find the video. If it is the alkalinity of the product that does the etching, what it is wouldnt matter?.... Maybe. Jody had something about oven cleaner in a thing about cleaning AL but i dunno if that would if thats one as well.
Mick
I cant find the video. If it is the alkalinity of the product that does the etching, what it is wouldnt matter?.... Maybe. Jody had something about oven cleaner in a thing about cleaning AL but i dunno if that would if thats one as well.
Mick
ajlskater1
- ajlskater1
-
Ace
-
Posts:
-
Joined:Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:32 am
Ya it probly wouldn't matter I just know it's because toilet bowl cleaning has a light acid in it. We used to use it to clean the aluminum for the punch and dies on the torrets at my first shop and I have used it to check for penetration. But like you said I am sure anything with light acid would work.
- weldin mike 27
-
Weldmonger
-
Posts:
-
Joined:Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:59 pm
-
Location:Australia; Victoria
Hey,
Ha that a cool trick isnt it. Im gunna steal some off our cleaner. He doesnt seem to need it.
lol
Mick
Ha that a cool trick isnt it. Im gunna steal some off our cleaner. He doesnt seem to need it.
lolMick
ajlskater1
- ajlskater1
-
Ace
-
Posts:
-
Joined:Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:32 am
LOL it surprising how strong that stuff is LOL. We would mess around by putting aluminium slugs in the container we kept the toilet bowl cleaner, it would only take a hour to dissolve the slugs.
- Otto Nobedder
-
Weldmonger
-
Posts:
-
Joined:Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:40 pm
-
Location:Near New Orleans
Acid-based toilet cleaners have Muriatic (hydrochloric) acid in them. It's available full strength from pool suppliers and RV dealers.
Alkali-based cleaners (toilet and oven) use sodium- or potassium hydroxide, soda-ash and potash, respectively. I haven't looked for it in a while, but you used to be able to buy lye chrystals at a plumbing supply as a drain-cleaner, and make a saturated solution with water.
As for which to use for what metal, I've never looked into it.
Steve S
Alkali-based cleaners (toilet and oven) use sodium- or potassium hydroxide, soda-ash and potash, respectively. I haven't looked for it in a while, but you used to be able to buy lye chrystals at a plumbing supply as a drain-cleaner, and make a saturated solution with water.
As for which to use for what metal, I've never looked into it.
Steve S