[Toggatug]

Just like the title says what's up with my tungsten.

Since getting my Dynasty I haven't been able to dial in some setting to keep my tungsten. Sharp, or a small shiny ball or hell even a big shiny ball that stays shiny.

No matter what I seem to do my tungsten always goes funny and a dull grey with either big nodules and what almost appear s to be splinterS. (Yet while welding everything seems okay)

Is this more likely my tungsten prep or my settings. It could it be both and one compounds the other so to speak.

Will attach a pic of my tungsten from yesterday.

Originally the 1/8" tungsten was ground to. Blunt point on a cheap aluminium oxide wheel from princess Auto. I never used the machine to ball it.

Settings I was using we're 325amps EP and EN set equal. Frequency was 120hz Balance was 70% gas 100%argon at 30cfh in a gas lense with #8 alumina cup.

Any help is greatly appreciated and thanks in Advance

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[LtBadd]

What tungsten are you using and what is the post flow?

[Toggatug]

Tungsten is either 1.5 or 2% lanthanated.

Post flow I leave to be set by the machine.(Miller rep looked at me funny when I said I leave the setting to auto and let the machine do it's thing for postflow)

If I'm not mistaken up at that amperage the machine was post flowing for around 25 seconds.

I can confirm that when back at the shop on Monday.



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[ljdm1956]

Try changing the balance. Wow, 25 seconds is a really too long post flow

[Toggatug]

Seems like a long time but isnt the old saying 1 second for every 10 amps?

Least that's what I've always gone by when setting the old PT185.

Now with the dynasty I just let it do it's thing cause a bottle of gas lasts enough jobs to keep the boss happy and it just takes one more setting out of the equation for me.

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[cj737]

Try changing the balance. Wow, 25 seconds is a really too long post flow

No such thing. Too short, yes. Too long, can’t happen. Argon post flow provides two purposes: shielding the weld while it cools and cooling the tungsten to prevent contamination from the atmosphere.

At 325 amps, 25 seconds is just about right. But your picture shows a tungsten that looks whacked. The only things I can think of are the result of a badly shortened tungsten (snapped, cut, or fractured along its length) or a terribly contaminated grinding wheel.

I use a Green Silicon carbide wheel, 120 grit when I need to grind it with a wheel.

[Toggatug]

Try changing the balance. Wow, 25 seconds is a really too long post flow

No such thing. Too short, yes. Too long, can’t happen. Argon post flow provides two purposes: shielding the weld while it cools and cooling the tungsten to prevent contamination from the atmosphere.

At 325 amps, 25 seconds is just about right. But your picture shows a tungsten that looks whacked. The only things I can think of are the result of a badly shortened tungsten (snapped, cut, or fractured along its length) or a terribly contaminated grinding wheel.

I use a Green Silicon carbide wheel, 120 grit when I need to grind it with a wheel.

Well I don't think I've ever snapped a tungsten only ever cut with a zip disc.

Could it be from not cutting far enough past contamination if I did or stick the filler rod to it?

Hmm perhaps it's time to track down a decent 3" diamond wheel for this mini grinder I've been using to replace the 'who knows what' wheel it came with If not then maybe jump to a 6" with CBN wheels.

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[kiwi2wheels]

Have you used the problem tungsten brand on another machine without problems ?

If you haven't already, try another brand or type of tungsten ; e.g 2% thoriated.

https://www.thefabricator.com/article/a ... minum-gtaw

" So what electrode should you use for AC welding aluminum? It comes down to your power supply. If you're using a conventional power source, use pure tungsten or zirconiated tungsten and let the end form a ball. If you're using an inverter–based machine, use 2 percent thoriated tungsten ground to a point."

[LtBadd]

https://www.thefabricator.com/article/a ... minum-gtaw

" So what electrode should you use for AC welding aluminum? It comes down to your power supply. If you're using a conventional power source, use pure tungsten or zirconiated tungsten and let the end form a ball. If you're using an inverter–based machine, use 2 percent thoriated tungsten ground to a point."

I would recommend lanthanated (2%) for inverter AC welding, ceriated as well

The article recommends 2% thoriated and then goes on to mention the lanthanated and ceriated but that they are more expensive, maybe in 2003 when it was written, now lanthanated can be found at very reasonably prices

[tweake]

Settings I was using we're 325amps EP and EN set equal. Frequency was 120hz Balance was 70% gas 100%argon at 30cfh in a gas lense with #8 alumina cup.

you probably have done this, but test it with balance at 30% or swap the leads around.

but otherwise i suspect, going by the charts, your amps are to high for a 1/8" tungsten. you need to go up a size.

[tweake]

to add: if you don't have bigger tungsten, the other thing to try is going to a long cup instead of the stubby.
i havn't tried it but it may give the gas a bit more time to cool the tungsten when in use. a tad cooler would stop it rounding off like that.

[Toggatug]

Settings I was using we're 325amps EP and EN set equal. Frequency was 120hz Balance was 70% gas 100%argon at 30cfh in a gas lense with #8 alumina cup.

you probably have done this, but test it with balance at 30% or swap the leads around.

but otherwise i suspect, going by the charts, your amps are to high for a 1/8" tungsten. you need to go up a size.

Funny you say that. When I first got the dynasty the leads were in backwards and all the settings were reversed so I had disappearing tungsten when I should have had near 0 cleaning action.

Perhaps I should start really digging into the balance paired with EN and EP control to see if that helps my tungsten life

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[Toggatug]

Have you used the problem tungsten brand on another machine without problems ?

If you haven't already, try another brand or type of tungsten ; e.g 2% thoriated.

https://www.thefabricator.com/article/a ... minum-gtaw

" So what electrode should you use for AC welding aluminum? It comes down to your power supply. If you're using a conventional power source, use pure tungsten or zirconiated tungsten and let the end form a ball. If you're using an inverter–based machine, use 2 percent thoriated tungsten ground to a point."

I used the same brand on my old transformer pt185 and sometimes was great sometimes bad. Usually lower amps went better on the tungsten. Always seemed like a crap shoot to me with that machine maxed out though.

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[cj737]

Well I don't think I've ever snapped a tungsten only ever cut with a zip disc.

Could it be from not cutting far enough past contamination if I did or stick the filler rod to it?

Don’t cut them, grind them in half using the edge of your wheel.

The Dynasty should be 60-70% Balance, not 30. That’s way too much cleaning. It will tear the tungsten apart. I use that balance setting to ball my tungsten before welding, then switch back to usually 65%-72% depending upon circumstances.

[VA-Sawyer]

I also think that 325 amps of AC is too much for 1/8" tungsten.

[Toggatug]

Well I don't think I've ever snapped a tungsten only ever cut with a zip disc.

Could it be from not cutting far enough past contamination if I did or stick the filler rod to it?

Don’t cut them, grind them in half using the edge of your wheel.

The Dynasty should be 60-70% Balance, not 30. That’s way too much cleaning. It will tear the tungsten apart. I use that balance setting to ball my tungsten before welding, then switch back to usually 65%-72% depending upon circumstances.

Would that not be what I'm doing using a 3" grinding disc? I used to use my pedastal grinder but found it to wear down at a horrendous rate. I can go back to doing that if I have to but will have to find a wheel that hols up longer.


And yes 30% would be way too Mich. Do t think it even goes down that low. Once I hit a certain point the display just changes to read 'ball'

Usually end up around 70% give or take a bit.

Unless I play with the EN and EP independently then it seems I can push the balance even higher. Only tinkered with that end of the machine a few times so only starting to get the feel of it.

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[Poland308]

http://www.ckworldwide.com/specifications.html
https://diamondground.com/TungstenGuidebook.pdf

Note page 23 on the second doc.

[ljdm1956]

No such thing. Too short, yes. Too long, can’t happen. Argon post flow provides two purposes: shielding the weld while it cools and cooling the tungsten to prevent contamination from the atmosphere.

At 325 amps, 25 seconds is just about right. But your picture shows a tungsten that looks whacked. The only things I can think of are the result of a badly shortened tungsten (snapped, cut, or fractured along its length) or a terribly contaminated grinding wheel.

I use a Green Silicon carbide wheel, 120 grit when I need to grind it with a wheel.

Well aware that too short is bad, and the purpose of post flow. I do stand corrected on the amount though, I don't Tig in the 250+amp range.

[noddybrian]

While agreeing on all previous comments on tungsten size for given amps & balance is it just me wondering on the original post what that weld is we are looking at almost off the bottom edge of the image - it appears completely black & covered in scale - surely this says some sort of shielding problem ?

[Toggatug]

While agreeing on all previous comments on tungsten size for given amps & balance is it just me wondering on the original post what that weld is we are looking at almost off the bottom edge of the image - it appears completely black & covered in scale - surely this says some sort of shielding problem ?

Noddy your right I shoulda posted up the weld and given a description of the parts being joined etc. Once I'm at the shop in a hour or so I will do so. As long as the cooler didn't get tested and painted on Saturday should be no problem


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[Toggatug]

So here's 3 different pictures of the welds. 2 not so great spots and 1 spot I think looks much better (cleaniness wise) also a overall of the whole unit.

Unit is a hydraulic oil cooler that's been in service for years on a CAT wheel loader. Unit was originally powder coated which I sanded off with a flat wheel then polished a bit with a scotchbrite followed by blow off with air then acetone wipe.

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[Toggatug]

And as a comparison here's what I. Welding right now. Building up the edge of a cast Ally CAC tank to takeup the gap due to different header styles.



Also got a halfway decent pic of the tungsten doing the same sorta thing but not as bad.

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[noddybrian]

OK - given the nature of what your welding & the amount of inevitable contamination that boils out it's amazing how clean your welds are looking - I guess the main issue probably is just too many amps on the tungsten - as the limit is approached tungsten's don't always do the same thing - I've had tungsten look all nodular like yours & blamed all sorts of things - but doing the exact same weld with tungsten from a different batch / seller the problem went away - I think a lot of it is coming from cheap sources ( even with brand name stuff ) & as it's a compressed powder not molten when made there is often an erratic mix of the alloying elements hence some tungsten seems better than other despite being sold as the same - if you can find any I would be interested to hear how 4% thoriated works - ( not available here so I never tried it ) - perhaps another cleaning step would help as the less crap boiling around in the pool the better - place that I knew that did similar work had a large tank with water / detergent mix in that could be boiled - all alloy manifolds / pipework / intercoolers etc got left in that for a while prior to to any other mechanical / solvent cleaning - not sure what the mix was but things sure looked clean when they came out.

[Toggatug]

OK - given the nature of what your welding & the amount of inevitable contamination that boils out it's amazing how clean your welds are looking - I guess the main issue probably is just too many amps on the tungsten - as the limit is approached tungsten's don't always do the same thing - I've had tungsten look all nodular like yours & blamed all sorts of things - but doing the exact same weld with tungsten from a different batch / seller the problem went away - I think a lot of it is coming from cheap sources ( even with brand name stuff ) & as it's a compressed powder not molten when made there is often an erratic mix of the alloying elements hence some tungsten seems better than other despite being sold as the same - if you can find any I would be interested to hear how 4% thoriated works - ( not available here so I never tried it ) - perhaps another cleaning step would help as the less crap boiling around in the pool the better - place that I knew that did similar work had a large tank with water / detergent mix in that could be boiled - all alloy manifolds / pipework / intercoolers etc got left in that for a while prior to to any other mechanical / solvent cleaning - not sure what the mix was but things sure looked clean when they came out.

Ah thank you so much for saying they look good for what they are.

I'm my own worst critic. The shop hands here will say it looks so great along with the boss.

then I sit there and cut all my welds up cause I know they're no Instagram welds. (Something I'm trying to get out of the habit of cause I have to realise these welds will never look like IG welds due to the application)


Perhaps on the next oil cooler I'll try cooking the tank up to 700 degrees F or so with my rosebud to cook some more goo out.


And the tank was probably some sort of hot tank.

We used to have a monster of one 6' x8' x4' that was loaded with caustic soda for boiling out old copper brass rads.

Unfortunately the ministry of safety and environment came in a kaiboshed that on us.

Wonder what type of chemical they have loaded in there's cause I know it can't be caustic. That shit will boil away aluminium in front of your eyes.

Perhaps theyre running a ultra Sonic tank though which is a much different beast.



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[Toggatug]

And noddy I think you may be onto something with the inferior tungsten thought.

Here's a pic of a different tungsten from. The same pack that behaved much differently. I was only around 275amps on this cooler however so that probably has a part to play.

Cheers for everyone's thoughts and ideas. Definately gives me more to check it and cross off the list of culprits

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