[Oscar]

Iyou brushed your aluminum, you may try sanding a piece as well with a new flap disc, I find it can take a long time to wire brush aluminum clean.

While it may take longer, I do advise against sanding with a flap disc because then you get some of those same oxides that you're trying to get rid off embedded into the aluminum. "Looks" cleaner, because it's shiner or has rotational marks, but it is not always the cause.

[TraditionalToolworks]

Not universally accepted, certainly not by me.

Works for Jody and others that do get acceptable welds with it.

Splitting hairs over stickout with the length comparable to the diameter of the cup being used is really just that. No reason to put the guy under a microscope, he's trying to get his torch working. Some of this stuff can be overthought rather than focusing on the actual problem at hand. Best to be simple, IMO, using the KISS method.

The guys is just confusing himself by thinking his flowmeter is bad, his torch is bad, and now his stickout is too far if he used the length being the diameter of the cup. That's the accepted length in the industry, so while it could be better to go with less stickout, that can be tuned later.

His problem is more than just the stickout of his tungsten, so why confuse him?

My guess is his torch is assembled with mismatched parts, like using a gas lens insulator with a standard consumable cup, that would cause leaking most likely. He hasn't shown the parts by themselves, only assembled.

jerc0, my comment about contacting Everlast was kind of tongue in cheek, I think their support sucks a hard boiled egg, but that is who you bought your welder from.

[Oscar]

Technically we do not know the problem. No one is trying to confuse anyone. I offer my advise based on what I have seen work for me, and for others as well. I feel my advise is well within the scope of achieving a high probability of producing clean TIG welds when a beginner is at the wheel, and they can't quite see the big picture and the little details all at the same time.

[TraditionalToolworks]

Yep, have seen many of your comments about small stick out being better but still use diameter of cup as a rule of thumb for my own welding. Some things are not worth splitting hairs over for myself.

Cleaning is more important for me.

[Spartan]

Just a bit less than cup diameter is my default stick out...so maybe 7/16" or so for a #8 cup. Adjust from there only when needed. Works for me, but to each their own. I don't like to crowd the weld area...helps me to see a bit better, I guess. Whatever makes your welds better is the best thing to do.

However, I do think it is interesting when I see guys using gauges to precisely measure their stick out. And these are guys that aren't welding for NASA

[TraditionalToolworks]

Just a bit less than cup diameter is my default stick out...so maybe 7/16" or so for a #8 cup.

Yeah, I usually put it a smidgen less than diameter also, but I eyeball it based on the diameter of the cup.

I don't like to crowd the weld area.

That's exactly why I don't put it too far in, I have a hard time as I don't use pyrex cups and like to be able to see my tungsten tip.

However, I do think it is interesting when I see guys using gauges to precisely measure their stick out. And these are guys that aren't welding for NASA

Well, I'm not no NASA welder, 'fo sho...and sometimes I still it out less and sometimes more...so no precision on my end, I just use the diameter of the cup as a reference as it's always there.

[Spartan]

Well, I'm not no NASA welder, 'fo sho...and sometimes I still it out less and sometimes more...so no precision on my end, I just use the diameter of the cup as a reference as it's always there.

Yup, you and I have that in common.

Reminds me of when I was working for a salty old engineer many years ago. I was mixing one of those large 2-part bags of epoxy in order to do a potting of sorts. After I broke the bag seal and mixed it with my hands for awhile, I asked him how long I needed to stand there mixing it before I could pour. He dryly said "mix it until it is just right".

I've thought about that often over the years. Whatever it is, don't over think it. Not everything needs a hard metric. Simply get it to where it is "just right".

[TraditionalToolworks]

He dryly said "mix it until it is just right".

I had a boss tell me that once also, when I was working in construction years ago.

I've thought about that often over the years. Whatever it is, don't over think it. Not everything needs a hard metric. Simply get it to where it is "just right".

Yeah, seems easy to overthink tig, it's a hard process to learn. I do use a gas lens most of the time, so it disperses the gas better and the diameter of the cup shouldn't be a problem, but that could be I guess with standard consumables.

Seems Jody uses the diameter of the cup a good gauge for most work. In this case I don't think it will hurt the OP to have it set like that, to focus on cleaning up the weld. Once he knows things are working correctly, tuning the tungsten properly would be in order, but he really needs to focus on the heart of the matter which is the tig torch, collet body, insulator, back cap, et al.

OTOH, I'm not expert, so probably not best to listen to me. I'm trying not to offer too much without knowing more details. I don't want to send him off on a tangent, as it is he's done that with the flowmeter and seems to be ready to buy a new torch...

I don't think tungsten stick out is his problem, call me a skeptic.

[Jakedaawg]

Sorry for starting something that got this so off track...

I only mentioned a rather short stick out for beginner reasons. I am teaching my shoo helper and I found the less stick out helps him hold the correct angle.

It was simply an effort to help the guy get his torch assembled correctly. I probably should not have even answered as my only knowledge comes from welding really dirty cast Al with a semi-good welder and torch. I have no experience with those chinesium things.

Again, apologies.

[Jakedaawg]

After careful reading I think he actually had two issues occurring at different times.

1. He stated he got clean welds with no filler...that means there wasn't much of a leak, therefore, it was something involving the introduction of filler.

2. He stated that the back cap wasn't coming down all the way. That could have been a leak. Probably what was going on in the beggining when he could not get a bead without filler even to run well. It was stated mismatched consumables...worth investigating.

As I teach my shop helper we started with no filler and torch angle. Then added distance (more accurately stated as less distance). Only after that did we increase stick out amd work on filler. After a couple hours a day for 10 days or so he is now practicing on really filthy cast Al. This week he will probably get to do his 1st real job. The youth gives him better reflexes and sight, I figure in a month he will be doing great and making me money.

[sbaker56]

I'm a fan of a stick out about as long as I can get away with, so I can aim for about the diameter of the cup too, normally I can see what I'm doing better and keep a tighter arc. However, if you eyeball it a bit wrong, or if you're in a groove weld and your arc isn't quite as close as usual, maybe you've got a slight bit of air movement, you'll start getting issues you don't get with a closer stick out. I do think it doesn't hurt to set things to be more forgiving when you're trying to diagnose if you have a technical or equipment error.

[jeryc0]

Another day, more trials, same results!
Today I made a fresh restart, so installed the torch as explained to snug the collet body to torch then inserted the collet and tungsten from cap side, tungsten stick out, about 4-5 mm:

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Then I’ve tested for bubbles and it seems it leaked between cap and torch, gas flow set at 20cfh:

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Then I took a scrap piece of Al and made 3 columns, first grinder with new flap disk, second brushed with stainless brush used only for Al, and third uncleaned, but not wiped with acetone, also prepared a paper tisue soaked in acetone to wipe the filler rod

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Then I wiped the filler 3 times but din not brush it, first with middle marks, second with right marks, third time with left marks:

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The I split the columns in half and run a bead without filler and another bead with filler.
I used 130 A, 100 Hz, square wave, HF start with pedal and 30% cleaning for the beads with no filler and 33% for the beads with filler:

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I did not dipped the tungsten but it did ball up

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It seems I have to give up for the moment and try to find a professional that will be willing to test the machine (I’m sure it’s fine) and show me a few tips... thank you very much for trying to help me, so disappointed of my fail... I was so confident I can do it

[BillE.Dee]

is everything connected properly? are you running AC ? how far off the work piece are you ? how much tilt do you have on the torch ? are you SURE the argon is 100% argon ?

[Oscar]

99.99% sure its not the machine. You dont need a "professional", I betcha I can get it to work so long as the machine is fine and you have pure argon. if I can do it, so can you.

At this point, I have to question what you think you know about the parts if the torch and or the connections of the machine. Sounds rude, it I've been right about it before

You never did post pics of the torch parts disassembled.....I also question the filler rod.

Tell ya what. Post pictures of everything, starting from the gas tank.

[jeryc0]

Before I’ve started this thread topic I was watching a video from Everlast, they have a youtube chanel and they have a video... 4 Al welding mistakes and I belive the first one was what I was considering I was doing, that the gas was contaminated or bad, this os the video: https://youtu.be/Mq56RIQ7Yx4
So.. this is one thing I can’t test or swap for the moment, the bottle was brand new filled with Argon, this is what I asked at least ....

Regarding the setup I’m pretty sure everything is fine beside the TIG torch that is leaking... I will for sure make some poctures with everything, for the moment these are the settings I used and the machine setup:

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As you can see the ground clamp has a dedicated socket just for AC, and it was connected to the work piece directly not even to the bench, as for the torch angle, I’m pretty sure I am below 30 degrees, distance, I did noticed the difference between a 3/32” distance and higher as is getting more voltage so maybe I’m not at 2.4 mm but for sure no more than 4 mm.

I am thinking maybe the gas is the problem but for the moment I can’t test it ( that if the gas leak at torch to cap is not a (major) problem..

I’ll get back with pictures!

[Oscar]

That's weird how it has a separate port just for AC.

Why so low on amperage? Are you welding 1/8" or 1/16"?

I could have fixed that gas leak on the torch in 1 minute. Still curious to see connections at the tank, torch disassembly, including the torch with the handle removed.....As you can see, if I was there I'd be very thorough. I'd check things you didn't know needed to be/could be checked.

[cj737]

Its not your torch or your gas. The bead in the top left corner, no filler, is evidence that your machine and equipment is working fine.

You may well have a problem with the filler, but I am still laying odds on the problem is beneath the hood and the torch.

Crank the amperage up to 160. Leave everything else the same. Now properly clean the base metal and the filler.

Repost your images of No filler, and then directly below it, a weld of the same length With Filler. And a picture of the filler rod too please?

[TraditionalToolworks]

That's weird how it has a separate port just for AC.

I think the reason for that is that it's one of those MTS mutliprocess machines.

Crank the amperage up to 160. Leave everything else the same. Now properly clean the base metal and the filler.

Hear, hear! And touche' on that cleaning, that metal looks awful.

[jeryc0]

Yes, I have set 130A because of the base material thickness of 1/8”, the last pictures are with a thicker material Probbably 3/16” but even with that the material is melting on the back

9EF12910-9216-414C-B49F-5F298303EDA5.jpeg (47.09 KiB) Viewed 1331 times

That os the back of the test I’ve done earlier today.

I’ll use the same material and crank the Amps up to 160 and post the outcome, also I’ll try on new coupons of 2 mm ( I have left some) on that material should I use more than 120 A? I was using 40A per mm or 1 A per 0.001” of base material thickness

I am pretty sure most of the problem is under the hood too but Is a little strange that on the cleaned lines, the beads are worst looking than the unclean line, this is Strange Thing, and Stranger Thing is the black smoke that I get when I try to add the filler, first dip is the worst, and I am adding in the puddle, at the edge towards the filler rod...

[Oscar]

some "decorative" parts like that are anodized. Are you absolutely positive it is not anodized?

[jeryc0]

no, I’m not in-fact both filler rods are pretty shiny, as I said I have 4043 and 5356, with 4043 is worse than the other, I’ll have to go and find some abrasive sponge (don’t know the name) and try to clean it, then use acetone ...

[cj737]

Diamond plate/tread plate is NOT a good material to practice on. To Oscar’s point, that material is probably anodized which accounts for the black smutz in your puddle.

Get some fresh material that is flat stock, 6061 or 5052 and work on that. 1/8” is plenty thick for practice.

[Oscar]

Get some fresh material that is flat stock, 6061 or 5052 and work on that. 1/8” is plenty thick for practice.

Yeap this will help a lot.


This is what my filler looks like after oxide removal (note the shiny part before scrubbing it down on the end):




Your base material should be similarly dull-looking after proper SS wire brushing and acetone cleaning.

[jeryc0]

The best thing I can get is a strip of 50 x 3 x 1000 mm ( around 2” x 1/8” x 40”)strip from a hardware store and I cut it at 2” long, not sure what type of Aluminum is it. On the label just says Aluminum...
That’s the one used for the last corner joint test, that’s actually me best bead, except the corner where I screwed up the tack ...

56260322-DF71-4D14-BDA5-54EA069CC628.jpeg (37.62 KiB) Viewed 1309 times

[Jakedaawg]

Where are you at? Maybe a friendly member lives nearby and could show you the basics. I'm guessing it's just hood time.