Most difficult to impossible for me is TIG welding aluminum in side a 90 degree angle.
No matter how well tungsten is sharpened, the speed of travel, or the cup size (#7), the arc will wander between the vertical and the horizontal sheets of aluminum making it difficult to add filler to a molten non-existent puddle. 1/8" or .125" aluminum was started at 125 amps - too much; then to 115 - same; then to 100 - better but still no puddle except on horizontal or vertical sheet when puddle needs to be at the intersection; all the way down to 90 amps & no change. How do people weld this joint satisfactorily?
This is probably the single most difficult thing for new AC-alumimum-TIG welders. By using 130-160% the typical amperage for a very short amount of time. Lots of amps = the arc straightens out. AC frequency plays a big role if you don't have enough amps. Too high and it makes puddle initiation difficult. Lower is better to get more overall heat into the joint. It's all a balancing act. Depending on how many amps you have at your disposal, you may not want to have your AC freq higher than 75Hz. More details are needed. We don't know if you have a $300 Ebay-special AC TIG, or a Miller Dynasty 400.
How you grind the tungsten is very important. It really needs a very polished surface, as you'd get with a diamond wheel. If you're grinding it the wrong direction, that's the end of the world for an AL IC.
Gas flow has to be ideal, not too little, not too much. Arc shape has a lot to do with the gas flow. Keep in mind the gas is what allows the arc to remain stable.
If you snapped the tungsten off and caused any fractures in it, that'll cause all sorts of arc wander. Tungsten 'should' be cut if you're cutting it. That said, I've snapped them with a vise and chisel in the past and had no issues. But you need to grind a little more when you do that to make sure you didn't fracture the tungsten.
I've seen dirty cups cause massive arc wander, completely arcing off the cup itself, though I wish I'd saved that entire torch head setup and tried again because that was really odd. I even posted pics of that cup and torch head here, it wasn't that dirty, but it had been laid down on the table lots of times and was used for a long time. Was basically clean inside. It was a #8 gas lens iirc, alumina, not a Furick.
Angle of sharpening is important and so is the amount of flat you put on the end. This is why guys recommend setting AC balance closer to 50/50 and then putting a ball on the tungsten is because now the tungsten decides how much current it needs to carry at the tip. With too long a taper, the very tip of the tungsten doesn't have enough current carrying capacity and if your balance is set around 75/25, that diameter can't carry the current and it wants to go somewhere... Meaning of off the side of the part / tungsten.
Trying to weld without a proper ground??? Obviously that's bad. I'm guilty of that on small parts where you really need to fixture things up and clamp them well, and I didn't. Don't expect the weight of a small part laying on the table to give you enough ground, it won't.
How does the edge surface of the material look? If you've got something shear-cut and it isn't smooth, that never likes to puddle. File the edges smooth, clean the material well.
Going lower on the AC Balance generally works better for me, probably because I'm sometimes a bit lax on cleaning and filing. Do as I say, not as I do.
Gas flow has to be ideal, not too little, not too much. Arc shape has a lot to do with the gas flow. Keep in mind the gas is what allows the arc to remain stable.
If you snapped the tungsten off and caused any fractures in it, that'll cause all sorts of arc wander. Tungsten 'should' be cut if you're cutting it. That said, I've snapped them with a vise and chisel in the past and had no issues. But you need to grind a little more when you do that to make sure you didn't fracture the tungsten.
I've seen dirty cups cause massive arc wander, completely arcing off the cup itself, though I wish I'd saved that entire torch head setup and tried again because that was really odd. I even posted pics of that cup and torch head here, it wasn't that dirty, but it had been laid down on the table lots of times and was used for a long time. Was basically clean inside. It was a #8 gas lens iirc, alumina, not a Furick.
Angle of sharpening is important and so is the amount of flat you put on the end. This is why guys recommend setting AC balance closer to 50/50 and then putting a ball on the tungsten is because now the tungsten decides how much current it needs to carry at the tip. With too long a taper, the very tip of the tungsten doesn't have enough current carrying capacity and if your balance is set around 75/25, that diameter can't carry the current and it wants to go somewhere... Meaning of off the side of the part / tungsten.
Trying to weld without a proper ground??? Obviously that's bad. I'm guilty of that on small parts where you really need to fixture things up and clamp them well, and I didn't. Don't expect the weight of a small part laying on the table to give you enough ground, it won't.
How does the edge surface of the material look? If you've got something shear-cut and it isn't smooth, that never likes to puddle. File the edges smooth, clean the material well.
Going lower on the AC Balance generally works better for me, probably because I'm sometimes a bit lax on cleaning and filing. Do as I say, not as I do.
A few other things:
As Oscar said, you didn't mention what machine you're using. It's hard to recommend settings without knowing the machine capabilities.
Higher AC Frequency can help concentrate your arc, but there's tradeoffs with that. Namely power.
In order to start or to make tacks, consider having a propane torch handy to do a little preheat so you don't need to wait forever to get a puddle. That's assuming the 1/8" sheet is fairly large. Large pieces will soak a lot of heat.
A tight arc goes without saying...
With 2 "walls" holding the gas in, you really don't need that much. Try dropping your gas flow down to even as low as 5-8 CFH. If there's a lot of turbulence, that creates issues also.
If the angle of grind is too blunt, the "corners" of the tungsten grind are actually fairly close to the walls, thus inviting arc wander. Don't go too blunt. Also, smaller tungsten, just large enough to carry the required current, is best in my experience.
As Oscar said, you didn't mention what machine you're using. It's hard to recommend settings without knowing the machine capabilities.
Higher AC Frequency can help concentrate your arc, but there's tradeoffs with that. Namely power.
In order to start or to make tacks, consider having a propane torch handy to do a little preheat so you don't need to wait forever to get a puddle. That's assuming the 1/8" sheet is fairly large. Large pieces will soak a lot of heat.
A tight arc goes without saying...
With 2 "walls" holding the gas in, you really don't need that much. Try dropping your gas flow down to even as low as 5-8 CFH. If there's a lot of turbulence, that creates issues also.
If the angle of grind is too blunt, the "corners" of the tungsten grind are actually fairly close to the walls, thus inviting arc wander. Don't go too blunt. Also, smaller tungsten, just large enough to carry the required current, is best in my experience.
Just thinking about this... Here's a BIG one.
Let's say yer gonna give a last wire brushing to yer fixtured-up parts, brushing the inside corner. Make sure to hold the 2 members vertically so gravity helps get rid of all the crud you're wire brushing. Otherwise, you've just brushed loose a bunch of crap that's laying between the two parts. It's really best to take the parts back apart and re-clean those edges so there's no gunk in there. But let's say you've already welded the outside corner and you can't take them apart, hold vertically to minimize the amount of dirt you stick in that root.
Let's say yer gonna give a last wire brushing to yer fixtured-up parts, brushing the inside corner. Make sure to hold the 2 members vertically so gravity helps get rid of all the crud you're wire brushing. Otherwise, you've just brushed loose a bunch of crap that's laying between the two parts. It's really best to take the parts back apart and re-clean those edges so there's no gunk in there. But let's say you've already welded the outside corner and you can't take them apart, hold vertically to minimize the amount of dirt you stick in that root.
For .125 aluminum angle inside corners, I use 120-150Hz, a standard 30* taper, 3/32 any color other than red, and anything between a #5 and a #8 cup. I set my machine to 180amps, whack it with the arc pointed at one side, get my puddle there, wick over and get a puddle both sides, then come back to root, add filler, and go.
Eye line and torch angle are the only important variables to getting it right. Amps too low, won’t happen. Set ‘em high and let ‘em fly.
Eye line and torch angle are the only important variables to getting it right. Amps too low, won’t happen. Set ‘em high and let ‘em fly.
your way way to cold. i would up around 150 odd amps.backroads wrote: 1/8" or .125" aluminum was started at 125 amps - too much; then to 115 - same; then to 100
you have no heat to drive it into the corner.
you can start it on the sides. puddle one side, dab. puddle other side, dab. then join them together and drive it into the root.
once its in there i find its just a matter of having enough to heat to push the puddle along.
tweak it until it breaks
Thanks for all the info. Forgot to mention machine = Miller Dynasty 210 (not the 210 DX). By the way, very expensive new machine. Don't know if this machine allows setting frequency.
I got this machine and got rid of a Miller Diversion 180. I had essentially given up on being able to use TIG, but aluminum welding capability is a 'must have' these days, so purchased the Dynasty 210.
Compared to MIG on mild steel, TIG aluminum is quite simply a true PIA since everything has to be just right or its a 'no go'.
I got this machine and got rid of a Miller Diversion 180. I had essentially given up on being able to use TIG, but aluminum welding capability is a 'must have' these days, so purchased the Dynasty 210.
Compared to MIG on mild steel, TIG aluminum is quite simply a true PIA since everything has to be just right or its a 'no go'.
aluminium is different.
i don't find aluminum difficult as such. i rate stainless as being much more difficult, just the accuracy and speed required.
whats important is stainless is not important for aluminium. its almost like the two are opposites.
however i think whats off putting with aluminium is the amount of settings you need to set and the amps required.
i don't find aluminum difficult as such. i rate stainless as being much more difficult, just the accuracy and speed required.
whats important is stainless is not important for aluminium. its almost like the two are opposites.
however i think whats off putting with aluminium is the amount of settings you need to set and the amps required.
tweak it until it breaks
It does. Pull the small front panel down and that reveals a great deal of options you can select. Frequency is adjustable from 20-250Hz on your model, waveform is selectable, and AC Balance too.backroads wrote: Don't know if this machine allows setting frequency.
Mine doesn't have a pull down front panel. Not sure if that's something older or newer, or perhaps that's on the 210 (mine is a DX). Now that you mention it, doesn't the 210 panel look more like a Syncrowave?cj737 wrote:It does. Pull the small front panel down and that reveals a great deal of options you can select. Frequency is adjustable from 20-250Hz on your model, waveform is selectable, and AC Balance too.backroads wrote: Don't know if this machine allows setting frequency.
I've got an "AC Waveshape" button all the way on the right. Pressing that lets you adjust balance and frequency.
All the modern Dynasty machines have the panel (SD, DX models). He doesn't state the age of the machine, so it's a bit of an unknown.BugHunter wrote:Mine doesn't have a pull down front panel. Not sure if that's something older or newer, or perhaps that's on the 210 (mine is a DX). Now that you mention it, doesn't the 210 panel look more like a Syncrowave?cj737 wrote:It does. Pull the small front panel down and that reveals a great deal of options you can select. Frequency is adjustable from 20-250Hz on your model, waveform is selectable, and AC Balance too.backroads wrote: Don't know if this machine allows setting frequency.
I've got an "AC Waveshape" button all the way on the right. Pressing that lets you adjust balance and frequency.
If your DX is new (within a year or two) the Waveshape button allows toggling between waveforms. You have to hold another button to activate that feature. The secret is in the manual.
I bought mine back in 2016. Still, I just looked on pics of new ones on the web and I'm not seeing any change. Mine looks just like the new ones online.cj737 wrote:All the modern Dynasty machines have the panel (SD, DX models). He doesn't state the age of the machine, so it's a bit of an unknown.
If your DX is new (within a year or two) the Waveshape button allows toggling between waveforms. You have to hold another button to activate that feature. The secret is in the manual.
Where is this panel? I know how to get into the service menus for the advanced features, though I don't need that very often.
On mine, Press Gas/Dig and Amps for the user menu. Press and hold them 5 seconds to get into the Tech menu. The only opening I have is that rubber cover over the USB port. (unless I'm mistaken).
https://store.cyberweld.com/midy210dxtig.html
The DX models have the full menu buttons on display. The older DX and SD models had a cover panel over the selection buttons.BugHunter wrote: Where is this panel? I know how to get into the service menus for the advanced features, though I don't need that very often.
On mine, Press Gas/Dig and Amps for the user menu. Press and hold them 5 seconds to get into the Tech menu. The only opening I have is that rubber cover over the USB port. (unless I'm mistaken).
https://store.cyberweld.com/midy210dxtig.html
Machine (Miller Dynasty 210) was purchased in 2020 about 6 months ago. I will look at paperwork & research further settings like frequency. Just an aside: I got so frustrated with TIG that when I owned the Diversion 180 in 2017, I shoved it in a corner in the shop and thought I never want to use this junk again. But as aluminum welding became more important, I got it out (early 2020) and it would only buzz without striking an arc. This machine cost ballpark $2000 when new (Cyberweld). I sent it to Industrial Electric in Sacramento through AirGas (Arcata, CA) for repair and received a repair quote of $2000 for a new computer panel in the machine. So the machine was sent to the junkyard for scrap and I purchased the Dynasty 210 through AirGas for ballpark $7000. The only reason for not using Cyberweld or other internet providers at a better price is the local assistance & good will when you need help. Although an inverter welder is good for certain reasons, it looks like repair costs are huge.
There are plenty of shops that can repair inverter welding boxes that don’t rip you off and simply replace entire boards, but instead replace the actual damaged component. My Dynasty (2005 model) has to have a repair done. Cost me $300. You just gotta look past the lazy shops to find the right ones.
Exceptionally difficult day working TIG aluminum.
Dynasty 210 settings made according to many recommendations coming in as follows:
1. Balance set at 60% (this is the lowest setting; it will not go to 50% as recommended)
2. Frequency set to 120
3. Gas flow at 10 CFH
4. Work itself grounded (not the table)
5. 3/32 tungsten with 30 degree cone blunted
Workpiece with pics:
.125 alum plate edges and flat surfaces at weld interface wire brushed with aluminum designated brush and followed by acetone wipe down.
Plates clamped at 90 degrees
Welding attempt inside 90 at 150 amps > a disaster - pics below
Outside 90 weld attempt at 115 amps > a disaster - pics below
I hate to keep ‘wasting’ good aluminum pieces with this futile attempt to use TIG. In spite of my down day, how do I get recommendations that are to the point to get past this problem and get it resolved?
Note: recommended amperage for .125” alum is ballpark 125 amps, which I have tried to hover around. The tendency to go lower in the past revolves around not having to hurry or get a burn through. Even 115 melts the plate on outside corners, however, I cannot recognize the formation of a puddle to add filler. Also, filler rod just balls up and melts unless kept at significant distances away.
I suppose many of you had these initial teething problems, but it is difficult to avoid frustration and stay positive about my ability to get a suitable aluminum weld. If anything sticks out as being problematic in the procedure I have shown other than just operator inadequacy, please advise.
Dynasty 210 settings made according to many recommendations coming in as follows:
1. Balance set at 60% (this is the lowest setting; it will not go to 50% as recommended)
2. Frequency set to 120
3. Gas flow at 10 CFH
4. Work itself grounded (not the table)
5. 3/32 tungsten with 30 degree cone blunted
Workpiece with pics:
.125 alum plate edges and flat surfaces at weld interface wire brushed with aluminum designated brush and followed by acetone wipe down.
Plates clamped at 90 degrees
Welding attempt inside 90 at 150 amps > a disaster - pics below
Outside 90 weld attempt at 115 amps > a disaster - pics below
I hate to keep ‘wasting’ good aluminum pieces with this futile attempt to use TIG. In spite of my down day, how do I get recommendations that are to the point to get past this problem and get it resolved?
Note: recommended amperage for .125” alum is ballpark 125 amps, which I have tried to hover around. The tendency to go lower in the past revolves around not having to hurry or get a burn through. Even 115 melts the plate on outside corners, however, I cannot recognize the formation of a puddle to add filler. Also, filler rod just balls up and melts unless kept at significant distances away.
I suppose many of you had these initial teething problems, but it is difficult to avoid frustration and stay positive about my ability to get a suitable aluminum weld. If anything sticks out as being problematic in the procedure I have shown other than just operator inadequacy, please advise.
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- inside 90
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Could be lots of things really: DC, incorrect torch polarity, not having 100% argon, too long arc length, incorrect torch angle come to mine. We can't actually see you doing this, so it will be a guessing game.
If I were you, I would take a few steps back. Take a single clean, un-anodized, weldable aluminum alloy flat bar/plate, and create one single clean puddle. Not a bead. Just one puddle. If you can't get one clean single puddle established, then that is exactly where you need to stop and truly re-evaluate everything. Remember, it's always something that think is right, but it's not. You have to question everything. So, what I personally suggest: let's see just one clean single puddle.
If I were you, I would take a few steps back. Take a single clean, un-anodized, weldable aluminum alloy flat bar/plate, and create one single clean puddle. Not a bead. Just one puddle. If you can't get one clean single puddle established, then that is exactly where you need to stop and truly re-evaluate everything. Remember, it's always something that think is right, but it's not. You have to question everything. So, what I personally suggest: let's see just one clean single puddle.
I tend to agree with Oscar. Either you're using a tank of MiG gas, you have the electrodes plugged in backwards, you've got a massive leak at the torch head, maybe the part isn't as clean as you think it is, though I think that's just fine. I can clearly see 6061 in the picture so it is certainly a weldable alloy.
Something very basic is wrong.
Something very basic is wrong.
I have to agree, either you're on DC somehow, you're not using 100% argon or you've got one HUGE leak in your torch. At 60% balance you could grab a couple pieces of aluminum off the shelf and weld them up without so much as wiping them off and they still would look a heck of a lot better than that does so something is amiss
You don't need an AC balance of 60, nor 50%. 65-72% is perfectly fine.
125 amps for .125 thick material is correct for steel, NOT aluminum.
Your material shows that you are "melting" it because you are not using enough heat. Aluminum melts around 900*, the oxide layer at over 2700*. That is why you need far more amps with aluminum than steel.
Show us a bead on flat aluminum. 150 amps, 3/32 filler, 70% Balance, 120Hz. MASH THE PEDAL to get your puddle. Don't creep up on it. Creeping up causes the internal aluminum to turn to goo long before you break the oxide layer.
Confirm you have the AC button depressed and lighted, and you should hear a very audible "buzz" with the arc. (Your welds look like 100% argon and AC is active to me). When you see the frost of the puddle dissipate, the surface will be a small wet "pond". Move the torch and add filler.
If you are attempting to weld those outside corners, you can not have the amount of gap your pictures show. The pieces must be in contact with each other. Start flat. Get your confidence up. Then progress to inside and outside corners.
125 amps for .125 thick material is correct for steel, NOT aluminum.
Your material shows that you are "melting" it because you are not using enough heat. Aluminum melts around 900*, the oxide layer at over 2700*. That is why you need far more amps with aluminum than steel.
Show us a bead on flat aluminum. 150 amps, 3/32 filler, 70% Balance, 120Hz. MASH THE PEDAL to get your puddle. Don't creep up on it. Creeping up causes the internal aluminum to turn to goo long before you break the oxide layer.
Confirm you have the AC button depressed and lighted, and you should hear a very audible "buzz" with the arc. (Your welds look like 100% argon and AC is active to me). When you see the frost of the puddle dissipate, the surface will be a small wet "pond". Move the torch and add filler.
If you are attempting to weld those outside corners, you can not have the amount of gap your pictures show. The pieces must be in contact with each other. Start flat. Get your confidence up. Then progress to inside and outside corners.
+1cj737 wrote:You don't need an AC balance of 60, nor 50%. 65-72% is perfectly fine.
125 amps for .125 thick material is correct for steel, NOT aluminum.
Your material shows that you are "melting" it because you are not using enough heat. Aluminum melts around 900*, the oxide layer at over 2700*. That is why you need far more amps with aluminum than steel.
Show us a bead on flat aluminum. 150 amps, 3/32 filler, 70% Balance, 120Hz. MASH THE PEDAL to get your puddle. Don't creep up on it. Creeping up causes the internal aluminum to turn to goo long before you break the oxide layer.
Confirm you have the AC button depressed and lighted, and you should hear a very audible "buzz" with the arc. (Your welds look like 100% argon and AC is active to me). When you see the frost of the puddle dissipate, the surface will be a small wet "pond". Move the torch and add filler.
If you are attempting to weld those outside corners, you can not have the amount of gap your pictures show. The pieces must be in contact with each other. Start flat. Get your confidence up. Then progress to inside and outside corners.
to add, the 60% balance reduces your heat, so your running colder than you think. 70% is a good all round setting. (80% for super clean metal)
also keep in mind that higher freq tends to reduce heat a bit as well. you can turn down the freq if the machine is struggling.
you can see your overheating the aluminium because your not melting a puddle as amps are not high enough.
the number one factor in overheating it is travel speed. going slow will cook it instead of welding it. there is a some good video's on that (its really noticeable on stainless).
so the first thing is to get hot enough that you create a puddle within a few seconds. if you have to sit and wait your not hot enough.
tweak it until it breaks
Thanks to all immensely. I will get to work checking the basics and try to get a puddle on a flat sheet with new recommendations: 150 amps, 3/32 filler, 70% Balance, 120Hz and check gas, torch leak, machine setting for polarity, reducing gap between pieces; will go back to basics and report back.
I just noticed after looking at your pictures again, you're welding tread plate (the vertical piece). Don't use that for practice. Unless you are absolutely, 200% certain it's 6061/5052 material, it's diabolic crap for a new welder.
Sure, it will weld, but many times it also have an anodizing layer on it or is made from 3000 grade aluminum. The 3000 stuff melts super quickly and needs a lot of filler rod to chill it after you get through the oxide layer.
Sure, it will weld, but many times it also have an anodizing layer on it or is made from 3000 grade aluminum. The 3000 stuff melts super quickly and needs a lot of filler rod to chill it after you get through the oxide layer.
I have add'l pics. Per your recommendations, these changes and verifications have been made:
1. verifies AC aluminum light lit
2. verified 100% argon
3. torch leak: none
4. set balance to 70%
5. amp setting 150
6. flow increased to 20 cfh
7. freq verified at 120 Hz
Thanks to all of the helpful responders, I am making progress today & feel good about making the settings per your advice. Pics to follow:
1. verifies AC aluminum light lit
2. verified 100% argon
3. torch leak: none
4. set balance to 70%
5. amp setting 150
6. flow increased to 20 cfh
7. freq verified at 120 Hz
Thanks to all of the helpful responders, I am making progress today & feel good about making the settings per your advice. Pics to follow:
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- puddle on flat surface day 2 150 amps
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- inside 90 150 amps
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